I always say the Pledge of Allegiance when I'm supposed to, but I'm not enthusiastic about it. Sure, I'm proud of the U.S.A. because we most likely have the best army and we work so hard to make a lot of things as convenient/safe as possible. But I'm disappointed in it too. There's so much terrible crime, advanced technology is making people dumber, and because of all the great stuff here it's so difficult to find people that show they're really grateful. Heck, even I don't. I keep forgetting since no one around me does except a select few people I know.  

It's also really difficult to find people that don't rely so much on technology for everything. Like I said, it's making people dumber. And I miss the days when I didn't use technology such as computers, phones, and video game systems so much and I was always willing to hang out with people. Also, at least two of my friends admitted that they prefer playing video games over talking to/hanging out with people, just like I've noticed in so many other people. Dang.

sop281 : I think it shouldn't be removed from the pledge, that's my opinion. Everybody is right here. 


Also, I just want to say one more thing.

Sword legion : I don't think that abortion should be allowed, but I think there should be an exception. What if the person is a rape victim? How would you feel having to raise or give birth to a baby that was given to you by a rapist? A woman doesn't deserve to go through that kind of stress.

Sword legion : "God would let illegal immigrants stay after breaking the law?" Your god obviously did when Britain invaded and slaughtered a majority of the natives. 

"If they don't want separated from their families, they should not break the law." They do it out of necessity. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a place where my life and my children's lives are at risk on a daily basis. A benevolent god would recognize their suffering, and would not turn them back to live with constant strife. 

"It is just that people are lazy and would rather have an abortion than take care of them."  Uh, yeah, no. Do you know the cost of raising a child? It's not a simple $100 per month check and done with it. Also, don't pull up a "they can just be sent away to a center". The cost of those add up, and there are plenty of children stuck in them already, unable to find homes. The children will just keep stacking up, and eventually we'll be totally unable to take care of them. It'll be like some countries in the world that have 1 billion+ people in their midst. There's also the long, arduous process of the pregnancy which puts the mother completely at risk, and creates a very difficult life. What if she were to be abandoned by her significant other? 

"Abortion is not "quite oftentimes a necessity.' It is a choice that is made for convenience at the cost of a lesser developed human being, and at the cost of your own family at that if you are the person choosing to have an abortion." It does come out of necessity. You make it sound like there is no difficulty when it comes to pregnancy, but there are many issues that pop up. One becomes sick, and extremely vulnerable. it becomes exceptionally difficult to maintain a steady job while pregnant, and people trying to take away maternity leave from businesses doesn't help matters any. 

"Because something is offensive is a bad argument." Obviously, but I was saying that simply because someone else was saying it, not because I actually found it offensive, just disrespectful and noninclusive. 

"Whether the pledge should have that phrase or not depends on what the rules say, not how people feel about it. This is a Constitutional Republic, and we hold to a standard created by those of whom started this country." It was a phrase doctored in. A large number of people want it out of the pledge, and leaving the phrase in the pledge alienates that massive group of people who no longer want it in. It's totally legal to remove it, just as it was completely legal to add it in. 

Popeye116 : While this isn't a thread about abortion and I don't want to completely derail the thread, I want to just say something about what you mentioned. I think that abortion should be illegal, except in one circumstance. I think that the only time abortion should be legal is if giving birth could very dangerous to the mother. The mother would basically have to chose between her life and her child's in that case. I don't think it should be legal in the case of rape. You don't have to raise the baby. You can give birth and then put it up for adoption. Really not much stress there, just 9 months of discomfort, but I don't think it is justified to murder a child just so you don't have to be uncomfortable for nine months. If you want to reply please do so via PM or profile comment.

Ok so back on track. I have liked a lot of the responses I have been getting. Most of them were pretty good and made sense to me even if I didn't really agree with them, except for one or two that just seem straight up disrespectful and rude.

I did for the most part in high school. It was first thing in the morning, and everyone sounded so dead while saying it, it wasn't really any true patriotic endeavor. Just something to get out of the way.

The only times I didn't say it was when I was too tired to care.

Though to be fair, I would say that around 80-85% of my high school was conservative, and I'm sure that less than half were actually saying it. =P

The recent episodes in the news where people didn't say the pledge was in protest of having "under God" in it. I don't think you need to be religious to be patriotic, so I'm fine with people being silent, because it is a statement that excludes people. I'm also okay with people actively campaigning for the removal of "under God" if they have fault with it.

I don't like mixing law/politics with religion. It just seems kind of..... wrong... I think if people want the line taken out, than it should be removed. This country is supposed to be about what the people want right? Another thing that should be noted, the composer of the pledge, Francis Bellamy, was ironically a socialist, and came up with the idea as a marketing campaign for sears to sell flags to schools. And that it was originally done with a straight arm pointed at the flag with an open palm. Come ww2, they decided that it was way too similar to Hitler's salute, and changed it. Its been changed so many times its ridiculous. I still think the whole thing is silly, and that you don't need to recite a silly pledge to be patriotic. If you want to support your nation and your military, donate to charities like wounded warriors.

thenumberone : you do realize the north Koreans are only "patriotic" by force right? Most I imagine live in perpetual fear of there government. And are not "supportive" but subservient.

m0ssb3rg935 :
You say that, but when you are told the same thing, every day, for youre entire life, you believe it.
If you had been taught everyday that america invented the moon, you would believe it.
N.Koreans genuinely believe their nation is advanced, their army is the ebst, their leader invented all the things he actually ripped off (IPOD clones, PC clones, styles etc).
They might be miserable, but most sill believe what they are told.

thenumberone : yeah, I guess your right. I never really thought about how powerful a propaganda soaked upbringing over the period of several generations could be... I guess that's why there has been no resistance let alone a full scale uprising. Which mean that the only reason there is any unrest in Taiwan is because they had already had a taste of democracy.

Going off of your earlier posts in this thread. You mention how it is the right thing to do and it is a demonstration of respect for the people who fought for your freedom. But here is the thing. We don't live in the time of founding fathers or any previous generation. While we live in a time now where people are still fighting and dying in the name of the country, they are not remotely the thing that has the most effect on us as a whole. Politicians do. And nowadays, it doesn't matter if you look at the democratic, republican, liberal, conservative sides. Politicians are corrupt liars and master manipulators. Pretty much every single one of them. This government is no longer about the good of all the people. It is for the following: keeping the billionaires wealthy, letting the billionaires practically control decisions, and doing whatever it takes to keep yourself in whatever office you hold (or trying to get into one that makes you even more wealthy). It is corrupted, shady, selfish, and untrustworthy. Elections are no longer about voting FOR someone, it is about voting AGAINST someone. In elections, people now resort to voting for who they see as the lesser evil. It is sad. That is the country in which we live. The pledge isn't about honoring soldiers as you make it out to be. It is about pledging allegiance to country as a whole. The majority of that country is the political government. It is about pledging allegiance "to the Republic FOR WHICH IT STANDS". The Republic is elected officials. The elected officials stand for, again, keeping the wealthy rich and keeping themselves in office. I don't pledge allegiance for the things that the Republic is standing for right now. When they stop being manipulated by corporation and wealth and start focusing on what is good for the majority of the citizens, I will be more than happy to pledge allegiance to that.

I think the pledge is something that should be said but I don't think it should be said 10 times or more a day. I say the pledge myself but I do go silent at the under god part of it because that is the major part I totally disagree with being in there. I like living in America and I have no problem with pledging loyalty and all to a country that tries it's best to uphold freedom for its people and goes out trying to help others in countries where those individual rights are stomped on daily. I say that if you feel pride in your country then you shouldn't have a problem with saying the pledge but at the same time I also think that it should be something you want to do .. not forced to do. 
And not saying it because it's boring or you're too unmotivated to say it ( because you got a hang nail, you need to be on facebook or you got text from friends or family to read that you think is more important than the pledge ) ... to those I say get off your high horse. If you feel that anti-patriotic then maybe you should go to some other country where the government forces you to do everything their way. Or find a deserted island and do things your way. 

I say the Pledge of Allegiance at school every day. They make us sing it against our will. I actually enjoy doing it, but I just hope we never have to do every hour in the future. That would get annoying quickly.

Well, I did remember during my Elementary and Middle school years, we did have to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag which was a really great thing to do to show pride to my country, but by the time I got to High school, I haven't done it, I really ain't sure on why this isn't done, maybe when you get older, there isn't really in need to say it. Although at some occasions that yes, I do say it if it's like at an event at school (during school) and we do need to say it, it is fine by me.

Although it might also be because we got so many foreign people coming in that caused us to not say it anymore, but that might just be my guess though, maybe because they didn't want to say it which is fine. I haven't seen on what schools outside the United States that says their own version to what we call the Pledge of Allegiance or not even say it at all, we don't really know on this until we know.

tgags123 : yes when I was in school I always said the pledge of allegiance even though I'm not very religious.

gamerforlifeforever2 : What does it have to do with religion...??

Well it was Christain at first...
Kinda wish it still was...
And I do say the pledge, cuz I am, in fact, Christian. I don't see why "Under God" is so offensive to people, but if it is, that's their thing, I'm not going to say they shouldn't be, because Inhave no evidence against that either.
But when I say it, I don't interpret it as pledging to the government, but the ideals that brought this nation together in the first place, a few being liberty apand equal opportunity.
Side note-Equal opportunity, not equality

No, I can whole-heartedly and honestly say that I don't... Part of the reason I don't say the pledge is because I don't feel like I have to or because I feel too tired to say it. The reason I don't feel like I have to is because I don't exactly get why we have to get up everyday and say that we respect the people who have fought for us so we could be a free country. We have special days set for us to completely respect it and understand all they went through, so why do we have to say we respect all they've done everyday? It gets boring for me :/. If you knew me in real life, you'd know I'm a pretty tired guy in the morning. I can't pay attention and I literally fall asleep in my chair. I don't even have to have stayed up late the night before to be tired.

My main reason is that when I was in 4th grade, my religion teacher explained to us that it doesn't matter if we pray out loud as long as we are praying in our heads when we are at church or have to say prayers. I took this along for saying pledges of any sort (even though politics and religion really don't go well together...) because I found them to be pretty similar. In the Pledge of Allegiance, we are thanking and respecting the soldiers for all they have done and all that they will do. When we pray, we thank and praise God for all he has done for us and all he will do for us. That, and in our school we say our prayers and then we say the Pledge of Allegiance. When we are saying the Pledge of Allegiance in our school, I don't say it out loud but I say it in my head, so I never really thought of it as a bad thing.

To sum this all up, I don't say the pledge, but the reasons for this are because I'm tired, because I don't think I have to, and because I say it in my head so it's pretty much the same thing. Wow, saying it like that makes it sound like I had terrible reasons, but it's the truth. Peace .

Tired in the morning...
Falling asleep in your chair...that sounds worse than me...
But I can understand that...
But do you take those days to respect them?
Otherwise...

Unless, say, I'm the leader of a crowd with many conservatives or I'm an important figure in such a crowd, I do not intend to pledge allegiance to anyone or anything. This rotten nationalism makes me sick