Eirinn : It succeeded in bringing more people coverage purely statistically even if it did create complications for some. Just because it didn't benefit your social circle that does not mean it caused much more harm than good. I'll agree it's definitely a flawed system though, I would've preferred something along the lines of a single payer healthcare system. Many people use Obamacare as an example of the "ill effects of socialism" but Obamacare was not socialism in any way shape or form. It relied on private providers and did not by any stretch guarantee protection for all even if it did help some.

Troops being pulled back was definitely a good idea at least that is my opinion as someone who has studied International Relations quite a bit. The US is not under some great security threat nor is Western Europe. IS is the one major global terrorist organisation that is very active right now and they're very much fighting a losing battle without the US having to get directly involved. In an era of global cooperation we don't really need the US to act as some sort of world police anymore. I also think the Bush administration really demonstrated the problems of doing that through the Iraq War. Trump seems quite different to Bush though in terms of foreign policy, being more of an isolationist.

I can understand being against using embryonic stem cells, for religious or moral reasons even if I personally would argue that there is nothing wrong with abortion provided it is done before a certain week. However why would you oppose Stem Cell research overall? It allows for a much wider range of testing. It is likely to play a key role in the future to treating various diseases and understanding human biology.

Clinton did play a role but I would say it is Bush who really worsened the situation further especially when it came to the housing market crash. His administration's lack of regulation and forcing banks to give out house loans to lower income individuals is largely what propelled it. I will admit that it was wrong of me to give Obama full credit for stabilizing the economy but he certainly has played a role through his stimulus package, decreasing federal deficit spending and overall taking steps towards building a much more environmentally and economically sustainable America (a lot of which I expect will be nullified by the Trump administration). Regardless the US is no longer in a recession and the stock market has gone up. It is true that part of the unemployment decrease can be attributed to people no longer actively searching for jobs but decrease in participation is also coming from many of the baby boomer generation retiring. So yes the decrease in unemployment is exaggerated but overall there has been a decrease.

There is a media bias in the US but it isn't as severe as some people would make it want to seem nor is it entirely one sided. There are more left leaning news networks in the US but that is to some extent balanced out by the fact that most of the popular right leaning news networks are considerably more right leaning than left leaning networks lean left. For example when comparing CNN to Fox News. Don't forget all the accusations that circulated just when Obama took office like the example I used, that he is a muslim (which a large percentage of Republicans still believe). US media in general is fairly conservative leaning compared to the rest of the western world and one could also argue that the reason there are more liberal networks is because purely statistically speaking the younger generation are more left leaning now than they used to be so it is catering to the crowd. It still ultimately comes down to the individual. Many republicans and democrats are likely to just rely on Fox News or CNN and mostly ignore other sources because it doesn't feed their personal bias.

Zlinqx : Having socialized healthcare is basically handing over the keys to your health to career politicians. That would effectively be like buying insurance from some guy in the back of a van with a suitcase full of funny money. The best solution is to open up interstate healthcare markets. If you have competition, you have lower prices and it's entirely private.

Also, Fox News isn't right wing.

He had great ideas on how to make this country great again sadly, most were not approved by the Senate who was a divided house and wanted his presidency to fail. Now that we have a united government there's no excuse or reason as to why this country should not prosper again aside from an under qualified President. Even then and certainly now, there's tons to miss about the Obama's and certainly the most obvious one is class, education, politician, respect, treating others equality, respecting the Constitution (free speech), not pushing internal agendas & private businesses, not using political power to endorse clothing brands made of cheap quality and overseas when you're supposed to bring jobs here, giving important offices to campaign donors, respecting woman including his wife whom he always made feel special and allowed her to shine on her own, approachable- he often walked around and talked to people- try that with Trump and it ends up with someone getting hurt, he understood the principles of economics and what it takes to drive more money in to this country from its own resources, while I hate Obamacare and would like it fixed, it was an end product of the Senate who blocked and stripped it down from what it was supposed to be and later stuck the Obama name to it to clear its own name- I hate forced healthcare as a middle class who can't afford an additional $300 a month on health care but, I know many people that have greatly benefited from it and they are pure republicans and hate liberals and everything they stand for even if its America itself so, there was a great help to many who desperately needed it, I'll miss him singing, joking around, roasting Trump with facts, and the memes were awesome. Now let's endure four years of bigotry. 

m0ssb3rg935 : Having entirely privatized healthcare is what causes prices to go up as it becomes a complete for profit industry. The US is already a clear example of this where health insurance costs much more than it does in most other western countries. While some conservatives and libertarians might be quick to blame that on Obamacare it's been the case since before the Obama administration even entered office. There's a reason more or less every other western country besides the US (socialist or not) has some sort of universal public healthcare system. 

A completely privatized system opens up for exploitation. Competition alone isn't enough to drive down prices since health insurance is vital, giving private companies an advantage. It is considered a basic human right in most countries for a reason as it is something every human being is going to need during their life span no matter how mindful they are of their health. That's also ignoring the fact that through a privatized system there are many people who won't be able to get coverage at all simply because of the position they're born into. It would be particularly hurtful for some groups like students living on their own.  Sure, there will inevitably be some problems like potentially longer wait times, but overall the positives outweigh the negatives by a longshot. All statistics show it being cheaper and those who have the money will still be able to turn to private providers if they want to. It comes down to that you cannot always apply basic economic theory, you also need to consider other factors particularly behavioral economics(and that's coming from someone who is an aspiring Economics major).

Also Fox News is clearly right wing. It employs a clear right wing perspective in its reporting, most reporters are open supporters of the republican party (which is right wing) and it has a right wing leaning audience. More so than the CNN has a left wing leaning audience.

Obama is the reason I have back and leg pain everyday, instead of being nearly 100%, fixed, and still in the Army. 
Obama is partially at fault for Islamic Extremists getting as powerful as they are today. 
Obama is the reason I can't afford health care to get fixed because the VA is trash. 
Obama is the reason I couldn't get a job IN AMERICA because illegal immigrants held all the jobs where I used to live, since I couldn't speak fluid Spanish. (I shouldn't have to speak Spanish fluidly to get a job in America, unless my job is being a translator, which is wasn't.) 
Obama is the reason for this overly liberal, "gimme gimme", "I'm offended because you don't agree with me", "YOU'RE A RACIST BIGOT BECAUSE YOU'RE WHITE" excuse of a trash society that America has become. 

So yeah, sorry if I don't agree with you or look at things differently, but SCREW OBAMA. One of the biggest reasons he got elected WAS BECAUSE HE IDENTIFIED AS BLACK!!! 



MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, DAMMIT

Zlinqx : A large majority of younger people haven't any need for health insurance. Not everyone needs it. Am I going to need it later in life? Absolutely, but I don't need it now. Most babies and school kids, and even the majority of healthy adults aren't going to need it. Government shouldn't be meddling with basic economics, but if they were, the only option I could get behind would be having the option to buy subsidized healthcare as an alternative to private insurance if you really need it, like disability or food stamps.

Also, the Republican Party isn't right wing, either. There's been a large shift away from Fox News among the right because Fox isn't near as right as they were. Fox is far more center and constantly moving left where CNN is already about center-left. There are no right wing mainstream media networks. They're all on the internet.

Lexatom : Yes, I'll absolutely count age and maturity in my analysis of people's decisions. That's not wrong. It's prudent. Trump is a monster. If you don't see this, you're immature. And no, I have no problem with saying that a third of grown adults are immature too. Anyone that supports Trump is willingly blinding themselves to the truth, they are immature, and I hope they grow up. They need to examine themselves and become better people. Need.

yoshirulez! : I don't really care that you don't like my responses. You need to reevaluate this presidency. Need. Again, I am a conservative. Trump is not. Take a step back and stop being fooled. Learn history. Learn political theory. Learn economics. Trump makes massive, consistent errors in all these things. Please learn. If our population cannot learn what is true and what is not, our nation will not survive long. Fascism is not fun. I do not want to cooperate with the fascist and I do not want to die. Please stop this early. Please. You scare me.

m0ssb3rg935 : Those who have the hardest time geting health insurance are often those who need it the most. Due to circumstances in potential jobs and their environment. Realistically unless you almost never need to leave your house (and even then there's a risk unexpected things  could happen) everyone should have it. If you don't all it requires is one single major incident and you could pretty much end up being ruined financially for something you didn't even cause.

I wonder what exact standard of judging you're using to decide that they're not right wing. It's widely accepted that they are. The republican partyoverall has conservative candidates and traditionally policies even more so when comparing it internationally where it would be considered part of the extreme right in many countries. The one exception was Trump who would be somewhat closer to centre in some of his policies but he has changed his stance on a lot of issues since taking office and seem a lot more right wing than what he originally appeared to be. When Fox reporting is also actively supporting right wing candidates and has a very right wing audience I find it hard to see how you could come to the conclusion that it isn't right wing. It definitely is THE main stream right wing media network which is reflected in the audience. The only thing that would seem to deviate from this is the other programming that appears on Fox but I'm talking about Fox News specifically.

http://www.pewresearch.org/pj_14-10-21_mediapolarization-08-2/

Zlinqx : It's unrealistic to think that we can protect and cover everyone in case of any accidents. It's certainly not worth letting government, especially ours, have more influence in our lives. If it's not already a requirement, then I could see requiring a company to provide insurance for their employees if it's a dangerous field of work, but it's just unrealistic to believe we can provide healthcare for everyone that trips on their shoelaces.

Most of the Republicans in Congress are more moderate than conservative and just because a network's audience may be more right leaning does not mean that the network's content or their hosts share the same views to the same degree. The only reason Fox News is so far to the right on that scale is because it's the only TV news network that isn't left. I'm judging where things are in the middle relative to the extremes. By that scale, I'd argue that most of the entire world is left leaning.

m0ssb3rg935 : Why would that be unrealistic? If it possible in other western countries why would it not be possible in the US? I see people stating how universal healthcare and tuition free universities is just wishful thinking when it's the case in almost every other western country. I don't see how there's a basis for thinking it's unrealistic. There are far more scenarios where life insurance would be required than simply in cases related to work accidents, some of the leading causes of death in the world is due to cancer and heart disease both of which you're unlikely to have much chance of surviving if you don't have some form of health insurance. There's also the risk of non work related accidents.

What actual statistics can you give that support this? The administration Trump is building is arguably one of the most right wing administrations we've ever seen in US history. While it may be true that the world is becoming increasingly more left leaning that doesn't make fox news any less right wing. The political spectrum is constantly changing to reflect the views of the people. What is considered left wing today may be considered right wing in the future and vice versa. 

Viewership is only one factor to consider. I would argue there is somewhat of a left leaning bias in the US news media but it's not to the point where it makes a huge difference since most big left wing networks are closer to center left. The only true left wing news network would be MSNBC with arguably CNN as a somewhat distant second. I think a large part of the reason there appears to be a liberal bias in the US is because it is to some extent influenced by the rest of the English speaking world being more left leaning. If just looking at media outlets that are based in the US as a whole the chart really should not be used to judge media overall, as it included a lot of left wing news networks that aren't on TV while at the same time not including a lot that are considered more right wing (eg Forbes). In large part because right wing media is less focused on news reporting.

Txgangsta :

Belittling someone and calling them immature because of their opinion is one of the most immature things I've seen.

I don't agree with some things Trump does, and I don't give a damn if he's conservative or not. Opinions don't dictate maturity, actions do. And based on your actions so far, I'm pretty disappointed. Like I said, I don't agree with stuff that Trump says, but I do think he is better than Hillary. Should I be burned to the stake because of my opinion? Absolutely not, and anyone who believes I should just shows off their immaturity. Those are the kinds of opinions that dictate whether a person is mature or not, not which person they would rather be President.

In addition to this, just because somebody likes one person more than the other doesn't mean they are a bad person. I find myself to be an all around nice guy until you truly piss me off.

"If our population cannot learn what is true and what is not, our nation will not survive long." You're somewhat right about that, which makes me wonder why so many people think Trump is against every single immigrant in the country, because he's not. He is targeting ILLEGAL immigrants, and people make a much bigger deal out of that than what it needs to be.

Anyway, this is the end of my little "rant". Don't insult people because of their opinions, it doesn't end well. Trust me, I know from experience.

I miss the whole "Thanks Obama" meme. Who can I blame for everything that goes wrong now? Saying "Thanks Trump" doesn't quite roll off the tongue quite as well. He wasn't perfect. The healthcare thing kinda nuked my family pretty hard too. But the guy did what he could, I guess. He got rid of the Osama Bid-Baddies, but then ISIS came. There was another recession a year or three ago. So needless to say, he kinda left the country as when he first came into presidency.

I give him a wrinkled "you tried" sticker.

West/Trump 2020. We need to Make America Rhyme Again.

thing1 : You blame Obama for all of these things like he is robocop and needs to be everywhere at once. Besides the part about the health care, it is pretty unreasonable to blame Obama for any of those things. Also, how do you know these people who beat you for the job are "illegal immigrants"? Do they go around telling everyone that they swam across the Rio Grande?? Either all of those people are stupid enough to go around admitting that they are illegal immigrants or you are making an assumption about them. You say we live in a "gimme gimme" society, but you literally just blamed another man who you have never even met for all of your problems, especially not getting a job.

Going back to the Spanish thing, I'm pretty sure knowing Spanish is not mandatory to get a job or else most of America would be unemployed....

Looking at your post and previous posts of yours, you seem to be conservative. Usually conservatives advocate for less government (not saying you necessarily have said that, but it seems to be the general consensus). If you want less government, why do you bash Obama for "not doing anything to help"? You can't have it both ways. 

One last question: How does someone "identify" as black? Pretty sure people can't pick and choose race (unless you're Michael Jackson, that is). 

Lexatom : You seem really picky on behavior. Sometimes the truth hurts. I don't see a need to further sugarcoat this. I'm not belittling at all, I'm demanding him to reflect on his humble position. There was no insult.

But I fear for the future because of Trump supporters. I must tackle this issue based on it's own gravity. Between the
liberals protesting and Trumpers pride, this can easily escalate and I
will be caught in the middle as a peacekeeper. I fear a civil war. I fear the suffering of my family or my own life. I will not compromise my own integrity, and for this I could die. I've been jumped for way less, but by the same exact hostile pride I see in the factions of our nation. I will suffer, both by result and by choice, because of this atmosphere that you helped create. Perhaps the suffering of others will be the decisive factor in your own revaluation of this grossly immoral climate.

#MakeAmericaMoralAgain

Illegal immigrants are good for the economy, btw. Even conservatives say so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C52TlPCVDio

Txgangsta :

"You seem really picky on behavior."

The amount of hypocrisy in this statement baffles me. These "morals" you have don't justify trying to make people do what you want, sorry bud. You're right, it can easily escalate. But not for being a Trump supporter. Do you see a lot of Trump supporters blocking highways and protesting about something they don't understand? Because I sure don't.

If you were REALLY worried about your own safety, you have the freedom to go to Canada or something. The door's wide open, nobody is stopping you but yourself and maybe the border patrol. By the way, me and Yoshi didn't help create anything. We can't even vote...

Also I hope you realize you're supporting ILLEGAL immigrants???

Txgangsta : "Between the liberals protesting and Trumpers pride, this can easily escalate and I will be caught in the middle as a peacekeeper."

No offense, but how can you call yourself a "peacekeeper" when you have "escalated" tension in this thread? Also, there are more people involved than just "angry liberals" and "arrogant Trump supporters". I don't see why you have to essentially divide America into two when there are a lot of rational, sane people on both sides and in the middle, as well. Maybe you don't know about these people because they are quietly trying to help ease the division in our country, instead of adding more fuel to the fire. 

Like you, I do not like Donald Trump at all. However, people who don't dislike Trump like you and I are still entitled to their opinions, and so are we. 

Lexatom : I agree with a lot of points you have made in this thread, however I disagree with a few things in the last one, no disrespect intended. 

"You're right, it can easily escalate. But not for being a Trump supporter. Do you see a lot of Trump supporters blocking highways and protesting about something they don't understand? Because I sure don't. "

Trump supporters don't really have a reason to be upset right now though. Their candidate won the election and Congress is basically theirs as well. It isn't really the best analogy to make considering the side protesting is the side that lost. 

"If you were REALLY worried about your own safety, you have the freedom to go to Canada or something."

That does sound good in theory, but it is pretty expensive to just fly to another country, and if you're gonna move there, it'll be even more costly. You have to forgo your current job, hope and pray you can find a new job in Canada (or wherever you are going), get passport and VISA approval and other immigration things, and as silly as it may sound, you have to be willing to adapt to a very different environment (not necessarily the nature aspect, but like culture and stuff). You also might have to leave behind potential family members. Even if he decides he wants to move to Canada right now, it will take him quite a bit of time to move there LEGALLY. 

RDay13 :

That's true, but there's some stuff they protest about that are just plain stupid. Like that "Not my President" crap? That made me cringe.

About the Canada thing. If I was honestly concerned with my safety as much as he seems to be, I would have no problem moving to Canada. I'm not going to risk my life by staying here if I was truly worried about something happening.

Lexatom : It's illegal to speed on the highway too. Laws are just laws. Laws are not morality. Congress could make them all legal in an instant. And if you would do research instead of soak in your own ignorance, you would quickly realize the benefits of the people you are prejudiced against. Finally, if the nation does get nasty, you bet I will be out of here. I will not be around while you begin shooting at people, and I will not care who fired the first shot.

RDay13 : The middle still voted for the radicals. If I'm escalating anything, it's simply because I am well aware of the actual tensions of the world right now. France is about to elect a crazy as well. The EU is about to fall, NATO is about to fall, and Russian expansion has already begun. This is grotesque, and any optimism about it getting better are reasonless. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions, but they better not get they're panties in a wad when I tell them my fears that they are my executioner.

Txgangsta : I do agree with your points about the EU and NATO and stuff, but you might want to refrain from calling people ignorant or using other petty insults . You're kinda making the rest of us non-Trump supporters look bad . 

RDay13 : It's not an insult. He's ignorant and I'm calling him ignorant. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. He lacks knowledge.