Homosexuality. The most controversial of subjects talked about in the U.S. as a taboo act from the late 60's all the way up to the present day.

It's been a long road, and the group of rebels have banded together for over half a century to bring large amounts of social and legal reform not only the U.S. but also many other western countries. The topic is not pretty. People have lost their lives fighting for and against the idea of homosexuality. It seems everyone has made it their business what goes on in other people's bedroom. Some people wishing to maintain order of the family, believing it's best for society. Other's having less justified bias, and even more supporting the sexual revolution so much, that all social decency became nothing but a paper wall. People standing naked in public, handing out free condoms and dildos. . . a lack of respect can be found on all sides, and people in the middle are left pulling their hair out. Hoping that ugly topic stays far away from their homes. Some people are so afraid to discuss or think about it, that they are ill prepared for the day their child believes he or she might become part of the dreaded. . . One of them. And they have a hard time either accepting, or trying to offer guidance away from such a taboo decision. Or wonder if there was no hope, and if it was merely a genetic factor that could not be diminished.

Even scientists have tarnished logic and respect in a quick social battle. Eager to earn the praise of masses, special interests or even their peers, dastardly theories or hypothesis's were created. Soon the gay gene Was born and used as an excuse to whitewash this behavior in the eyes of the public all together. Meanwhile, those with more respect did admit that genetics may play a small part in sexuality, but dismissed the idea of a gene that magically makes somebody gay. But the battles waged on as news paper, media and common belief began to cover up the factors. Some people argued for it, and other's directly against. It was a never ending war on the rights of an individual vs the safety and sanitary keeping of a society.

Homosexuality has been surrounded by propaganda and many, many myths. People on all sides have fudged numbers, made up lies and even outright ignored common sense. The forms of motivation for these lies vary from person to person, but one thing can be said for certain about most people. Sexuality is a touchy subject, and sex itself is already a taboo topic in any formal area of speaking. I would say that this mentality has actually hampered a proper discussion of the controversy. When you live in a country where talking about sex is. . .questionable, and it's mostly done by dishonorable people as opposed to those who uphold chastity- then even knowing too much about homosexuality makes you an odd sort of person. We can't dig deep in. We can't think about these ideas in context with science, nature or even religion and the Bible.

I would like to break the curse, and show people the things that I have studied. Boldly going against tradition (And using a lot of incognito tabs) To study places where "The sun don't shine" And hope to better educate you about this topic.

Is homosexuality really safe? Why so dynamically oppose it? Is it really your business what someone else does with their body? Why can't we all just tolerate and agree to live and let be? Well, maybe by reading forward, you will be able to find out.

Many people opposed the restriction of homosexuality because they claim that the practice is completely natural and sanitary. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

In 1997, the New England Journal of Medicine drew attention to the strong association between anal cancer and male homosexual contact. The gay lifestyle has been closely related to AIDs, MRSA, Syphilis, and Lymphogranuloma Venereum, to name a few. (And I do mean a few.)

The amount of pain and suffering homosexuality has brought on some people is beyond measure. From records of the Chicago Department of Public Health to the much wider scale CDC. It seems to be a universal conclusion by tighter sources that homosexuality is heavily connected to sexual diseases- disproportionately. Chicago's Department of Public Health identified homosexuals as the holders of 37% of all AIDS diagnostics in the year 2000. By 2003, this number had increased to 44%. In mid 2005, homosexuals accounted for 73% of all syphilis cases within the same aforementioned city.

To add onto this, in the city of San Francisco, the CDC found that 88% of all cases regarding syphilis were attributed to males who had sex with males. Taking this into consideration, and that gay individuals only make up about 2% of the population, and you have a pretty one sided problem that mostly effects a specific group of people. One begins to wonder if these statistics are true or mere forms of propaganda. I would actually suggest the former.

STDs show up in the penis, vagina, ass, mouth and throat. It can appear in a number of places that are associated with sex as one might expect, and each defect has it's own cause and set of symptoms. People with the lowest risk of STDs have only one sex partner and seem to refrain from larger amounts of oral or anal sex. Those who don't throw themselves into a pool of wildcards by constantly changing partners are leagues above those who do when it comes to sexual safety. A lack of chastity can mean one sweet moment at night could bring many years of hell. Even the curable problems such as syphilis can cause permanent damage if not treated soon enough. What's worse is some of these diseases give hardly any warning sign. Things as simple as it becoming harder to poop, or your penis emitting a white milky color.

These diseases often start- and grown in the penis or the vagina. A woman's vagina which is already filled with all kinds of bacteria makes for the ideal breeding ground. Once infection enters, depending on the type of sickness, it can be difficult to get out. Some STD's can never be cured, and only hampered. Thoughtless mistakes and giving into perversion of basic instinct can lead to a life long handicap, and still people speak about the pride that they have in themselves for abusing these sexual rights.

It can be argued, that a person has the right to do what they want with their body- regardless of the negative consequences of it. And while this is true for cancer causing cigarettes, and even simple fast food on a basic level. Our governments usually take substantial measures to put an end to illegal drugs. Substances which are far more powerful than slight overeating, and able to ruin a person's mind within seconds- permanently. If what the CDC and other departments have found about homosexuality is true, then why isn't this community, and life ruining issue also given the same scrutiny?

Should we really be supporting homosexuality, and lesbianism as a right when they are so damaging to human health and individuality?

It can be argued that being gay, is a part of who a person is. But the same arguments could be applied to a thief, a prostitute, or even an animal abuser. For the sake of identity, these activities are not ignored, bur are rather scrutinized or punished for upon execution of these actions. A person may feel like he needs or wants to do something deep down inside, he may even attribute it to his personal identity, but this does not validate his actions. Even pedophiles feel a great need to be able to express themselves publicly. Thankfully, we as human beings know better. And in spite of slightly growing campaigns for "social justice" we have remained more firm in protecting the livelihood of our children.

While true, animals may perform homosexual acts, how does this validate such actions among humans? Prairie dogs will eat their neighbors mother's children to create less competition for their own. Fathers in nature will impregnate a female and then leave her to take care of the young all by herself. Some spiders will eat the father after exchanging DNA with him- and then sacrifice themselves as a meal for their own children. Surely we as humans do not need animals to justify our acts.

What is natural- is the instinctive distaste for homosexuality when we see it take place. A person may be roused to anger, or disgust. Inside, our survival instincts tell us that we must do something about this, or else something bad could happen. What's interesting is when you see a 40 year old caressing a 10 year old girl. You would doubtlessly become angry and jump to her defense. Some people would do the same when they see to males kissing out in public. Why? Perhaps we inherently understand this is bad for our preservation as a species, and seek to stop it from continuing, like we would any bad situation happening to our fellow man. Much like other forms of sexual deviance such as incest and bestial relationships.

Although it is constantly said that homosexuality is safer than straight sex- since you don't risk pregnancy, it's actually a lot worse on your body. These statistics among many many others would tell others to stay very far away from such acts. And would encourage us to set up safety barriers deterring people from performing them, in the best interest of our communities. This can be done by use of corrective therapy, and proper education of sex by parents at a proper age. (Beating your way around the bush does not necessarily help young people make good decisions with their body.) Another solution would be to make sure that men who rape men are severely punished for this act, and that family members are not given special protection by other family members when it does happen. Many gay people become gay because their first experience sexually was forced on them by someone else who was gay or bisexual.

Indeed, what you didn't know about homosexuality, is not only just how dangerous it is, and how much it can affect you through standard methods of AIDS transfusion (blood donation)- but also just how long we have known about it's danger. Articles can be found on the topic regarding San Francisco studying even years 1984 - 1988. One in particular which made note of as many as 52% of all homosexuals obtaining AIDS within their lifetime. Even Lesbianism, which was thought to be cleaner is fraught with dangers. From the deforming effects that dildos have on the woman's vagina (expanding the inside of beyond normal size, and ruining her ability to have sex with an actual male later in life- which almost every "lesbian" admits to having at some point.) To a number of other negative effects that women who do not have children may find themselves vulnerable- probably for this exact reason. Breast and ovarian cancer are two of them. Other common symptoms can include obesity and depression. A man or a woman cannot live truly happily when they medically deny what is natural and healthy for their body. Gay rights have been suppressing common sense, and even oppressing those who work to protect us from the dangerous environment they create. Much to the dismay of local authorizes who are aware of these once-better known statistics before Hollywood and the extreme media began to campaign for it's innocence.

What you didn't know about homosexuality is shocking. After years and years of society slowly asking us to become more accustomed to it. As the behavior began to grow as acceptable in our society. Now several children are taught from a young age, that it's okay to be what they want to be, and to do what they feel will make them most happy inside. We as logical people have to ask ourselves this. Is love without logic justified? Is it moral to condone these acts against humanity to prosper? Even now people are moving to legalize pedophilia and animal marriage as we move on. The arguments based on identity, and justification hold no merit against he medical facts providing logical attrition. We need to return to our senses and defend the well being of our communities against this insanity. Start by educating people today.

I thoroughly enjoyed seeing this from a new perspective.

I can tell the research you did was from both sides and the presented argument was grounded on facts instead of feelings.

This is most certainly the post of the month if not the year.

I totally agree that homosexuality is hidden as a taboo when in reality it should be a discussed topic all around.

It's essential that kids and teens receive proper education, and we're not talking just about knowledge, we're also talking about emotions. They need to know how to react to any kind of emotional upheaval, and even more in cases of sexual excitation. But well, if we have to talk about the problems of proper education I wonder if this subject is the first problem on the top of the list, so let's leave it here.

I liked a lot the point of the comparisons to the animal reign. People like to justify their actions by mirroring something else, instead of relying in actual facts like you've done with this thread. Maybe one more proof of the problems of proper education I've mentioned above.

Another thing about homosexuality I'd like to add which has been on the news recently, at least over here, is the fact that it indeed is a "mental illness". After all, our brain is responsible for ordering our body to react, so if an individual gets sexually excited at the sight of something that shouldn't provoke such reaction the problem resides in the individual's brain. 

Is it curable? Well, surely not like the rabble suggests, but I wonder if a proper education could drive kids towards the correct path. After all, we feel different emotions when attending a sporting event, when meeting certain celebrities and so on, emotions which are a reaction provoked by what those things mean to us, and they can mean a lot if we were educated into loving them.

Anyway, people just wants to hear what they want to hear, and surely many facts you stated in this thread don't fall into that category for most people. Good job in bringing this out on the public, may not be a pleasant read for everyone else like has been for me, but truth sometimes is harsh and cruel.

So, at this point I just have to ask...

Why are you going to such lengths to crucify Homosexuality? I highly doubt anyone will truly change how they feel about the subject just because there may be some differences in how it effects the individual's health. Either you are gay and you take the health risks to heart, or you're not and it's not your problem.

I think the biggest problem here is people are conditioned by society to believe that gays are inferior in some way. I have gay family, they've been that way for as long as I can remember. Out of mere curiosity, I've talked to my elders who are gay, having serious discussions on the subject. Not one of them told me "It was just something I picked up along the way." My one family member who is gay, as well as his parents, sister, and even brother-in-law (who met him at the age of 10 ) all truly believe he's always been that way. If 10 is too late to start "teaching someone how to not be gay," how early should you start teaching your kids about sex and the "correct" way to be sexually?

And while I'll admit that many of your facts presented are at least true to some extent, your reasoning for certain things is biased. Maybe if we looked at the health issues of the gay community as concerns for well-being, instead of excuses to condemn them, people would be more willing to hear what might be better for their long-term health (and I mean the STD's, not being gay in itself). 

There's two kinds of people out there. Ones who care about their health, and those who don't. Being gay makes no difference in that respect.

Sword legion : I would advice actually linking your sources when writing an article on any topic, anyway moving on to address what you've said.

EX Palen :

The reason that homosexual men have a higher risk of developing AIDS is because they practice anal sex. The anus is not made for that kind of sexual activity unlike the vagina which means there can easily be tears. This enables a higher risk of transmission. It isn't because people are gay but rather because anal sex carries more risk to it. A woman who frequently has anal sex would in theory have an equal chance of contracting HIV.  Homosexual people also typically do not use condoms because there's no risk of getting pregnant not realizing that they also serve to protect against various STDs. Couple this with the existing high rate of homosexual people who have it and that's what allows it to spread so widely. It's the practice of unsafe sex between people of any sexual orientation that causes it. Not simply because of being homosexual like you seem to be suggesting.

Furthermore I think there's a very big difference between being gay and being a pedophile/animal abuser/thief or prostitute. All of the latter you described involve taking advantage of people in some way or being taken advantage of. Taking that into consideration it's definitely something that needs to be combated. A pedophile is driven to take advantage of young children who have yet to develop,  a thief is taking advantage of people by stealing from them. An animal abuser takes advantage of animals who are incapable of defending themselves. Lastly being a prostitute is usually the case because one was physically forced into that way of life (human trafficking) or financially because of it being the only way a person could support themself. Homosexual people are not taking advantage of others. Homosexual rape is of course a problem but that is unrelated to the matter at hand.

So why condemn homosexuality? Like you brought up it occurs in animals, it is by all appearances a natural process that occurs and has always occured in animals, including human beings. That is the definition of "natural" something which occurs in nature, it is not influenced by human involvement. One could even go as far as to argue it's a natural measure to prevent overpopulation.  I'm also kind of confused with your logic here because at one point you compare it to a mental disease something of which should be treated but then you go on to compare it to cigarettes which is a drug. It does not have adverse effects thus it is not a disease. It's obviously not a drug because it deals with your sexual orientation. There is no foreign physical substance. They're two entirely separate things.  

The solution here would be to advocate safe sex by teaching people about the dangers of AIDS and various STDs and informing them on the use of condoms not trying to change who someone is. It is not something that needs to be cured since the fact of the matter is that being gay does not stop you from being a normal functioning person mentally unlike drugs or various mental diseases which can have a very clear effect on your mental capabilities. A homosexual person is more likely to contract an STD but that is not because of an inborn risk but rather because of the surrounding circumstances as they're more likely to have unprotected anal sex. Through the use of condoms however that increased risk is eliminated. That's what the discussion should be focused on, not preventing homosexuality, but rather preventing unsafe sex because that is where danger lies.

I feel like you're letting preexisting bias cloud your judgement here in terms of identifying homosexuality as the direct problem when none of this actually suggest that being the case. It is merely a risk factor.  Public condemnation/exclusion etc will serve to do nothing but lead these people into depression which in the most extreme cases will drive them towards suicide, and may lead to there being a physical threat  as it would undoubtedly lead to society becoming more hostile towards homosexual people once again. 

Zlinqx : "Homosexual people also typically do not use condoms because there's no risk of getting pregnant not realizing that they also serve to protect against various sexual diseases"

That just strengthens the point of a lack of education. People see the condom simply as a contraceptive method, when it reality it has more functions beyond that. Just like there are heavy advertising campaigns against all the damage tobacco can cause beyond cancer, there should be more advertising or at least talking and spreading the word on using condom for any kind of sexual relationship.

I'm not condemning homosexuality. I have experience in dealing with problems without digging up its roots, and that causes misleadings which are then followed by years of hell or even deaths. Therefore, we must dig up the roots of what causes homosexuality, and deem once and for all if it's something we can solve by any means, like I suggest with education, or if we have to let it go and haters gonna hate. The fact there's not yet a solid and global definition about homosexuality being classified or not as a disease of sorts must end or the conflict will keep on going endlessly.

Mynamescoxx4:

Crucify homosexuals? The integrity of you post is heavily appealing. I accept your good will as you put emotion aside to discuss things logically. After all, we are all on the same side here- imperfect individuals who want nothing but the truth I might add.

Don't worry. I know many Muslims in places like Pakistan, or Nigeria who may use many of the same arguments. You see, to them, being sexually attracted to a 9 year old girl A-okay. Some might even say it's inherit, and they just can't help it. A few people have even described zoophilia in a similar manner, but we shouldn't stop them for any medical reasons for their own benefit now should we?

That's about what I see here.

Being gay makes all the difference in health. Not only is it a choice to have gay sex- one of the best substitutes for gay men- who are missing a vagina- is butt sex. In fact I hear it's very painful to some people- but what's bad is the amount that gay people have to do it. They don't have a vagina. They don't have the natural hole the penis is supposed to be comfortable in. What I find interesting is that during masturbation- guys will use just about anything in order to "rub one out". Yet the most effective measures are those taken to simulate the natural hole the penis is supposed to go into. A vagina. there is no getting away from the natural design of the body, nor the mental constructs which are associated with it. If you cared about homosexuals, you would be warning them about the danger, and discouraging it. Plenty of gay people have gone straight, and lived safe- happy lives. What sucks is the more this ideology becomes accepted, the more people feel that they can become gay- or bi- (which just about all of them really are.)

I don't care about feelings I care about facts. Of course you can talk to gay family members- I have them too, but that does not change the natural design of them- the consequences of gay sex, or the fact that gay people are not mentally satisfied because they have fallen into a trap and need help. Why don't you throw them a rope?

Excessive amounts of butt sex is not the only danger posed to homosexuals, who will likely choose between that and oral if they want to orgasm. (Though handjobs exist- this is true) People in the health department of the most liberal cities of America know it's dangerous. The CDC has been watching this for years, and most of all it outright against common sense.

We already had enough of the curses of homosexuality when AIDs started spreading through dental ware before dentists had to properly sanitize their tools. All you need to pick up some STD's is for a pervert to take a sip of your drink when you're not looking. We already have enough problems with bestiality and child marriage in third world countries. Do you think we should be condoning activity like that?

You think I want to crucify homosexuals and just have some sort of unreasonable binge against them eh? Well maybe you should do the research that I've been doing for the last few months and get with the program! If I had made an article talking about the harmful effects of Nicotine and Cocaine nobody would be against me! But because I choose to go against sexuality- which is part of someone's self perceived "Identity" People become butthurt, and I look like a mean person. You know- like your parents do when they tell you the hard facts of life, and that not everything you want to do is worth doing.

I'll believe people have a natural preference for being gay when they stop acting bi. Other wise they're like a guy claiming to be a painter with a hammer.


Zlinqx :

Linking my sources? Oh, you mean by posting a readable link that you can just click on?

Huh, funny. . . with all the referencing of the CDC, the Chicago Department of Public Health and the New England Journal of Medicine, I would think that you would know what places I'm already talking about.

But maybe I'm mistaken.

Very big difference between being pedophile and homosexual eh? Really? 13 year olds are capable of making their own conscious decisions. They already know what food they like. . . what clothes they want to wear. . . some even know their sexual preference before they're twelve! Who are you to say what they can or cannot decide. There is no reason to stop them if it isn't harmful.

Honestly, many people- at least in America are prostitutes just to make money. To them it's a job and nothing more. Yes, there is a trafficking problem that contributes to it too though.

Thieves make choices that harm other people. So do gay people, and so do drug dealers. They all make a choice, and all three may consider what they do a part of their identity and lifestyle. However, just because something is part of your identity doesn't make it right. In my experience- all forms of sexual deviancy come from a lack of self control, and dissatisfaction from other areas in life (sometimes this means not being able to find a good female).

I can't believe you'd use the argument of it being natural when you know what animals do to one another that is "natural." Should I eat my neighbor's babies like prairie dogs do? Or maybe my wife should eat me on the night that we have sex like a black widow? I'm not even going to argue about this.

If you think that what we need to do is educate people on safe sex to fix the problem. Then let me ask you this.

How are you gonna teach homosexual kids about safe sex when half the places they're going to place their penis instead of the vagina are prone to causing infection?

I just want to point out that animals can't give consent and that in the US anyways a 13 year old can not legally give consent to have sex. In fact they can't until they're 18, and if the other partner is not a minor then it's considered pedophilia. Why is that you may ask? Well, because acting out pedophilic tendencies scars the victim mentally and psychologically, and at prepubescent ages the victim isn't even supposed to do that naturally in the first place.

Also sword, it would make seeing the sources and following where you got your info easier. I don't want to have to google that stuff honestly, and it's honestly just easier to click on links then search on google for sources that you may or may not have used.

Also, while anal sex may be a common form of sex between two gay males, not everyone partakes in it. Being a gay male doesn't mean you have to have anal sex. And isn't all types of sex risky in one form or another? Hell, if sex was 100% safe people would just tell us to have sex whenever and with whoever we please because STDs don't exist.

Also I highly doubt Zlinqx was advising teaching homosexual males to stick their penis into whatever they please. Just saying.

ZeroTails :

We eat animals without their permission. Why do we need their consent to legally do anything to them?

Anal sex is not the only thing that causes STD's in homosexuals. It is one of the most common forms of sex that they partake in however.

The safest sex is with one partner of the same gender. STDs are actually viruses that spread from one place to another. However, unsafe sex acts create open space for these viruses to live in. Normal forms of sex are the safest. Homosexuals cannot participate in traditional sex however because they lack the parts to do it- therefore they operate using the ass or the mouth- both of which can easily become infected if done often.

I know Zlinqx isn't suggesting gay people do anal all the time. That would be pretty bad advice. What he said exactly is this:

The solution here would be to advocate safe sex by teaching people about the dangers of AIDS and various STDs and informing them on the use of condoms

However, that is the problem. Homosexuals can use condoms- which still come with a risk in anal, or they could just give handjobs- which would be an awkward way to orgasm all the time, but it would probably be one of the safest.

From what I've seen, I would say that teaching homosexuals about safe sex wouldn't help the problem at all. In fact, I believe it would leave them greatly dissatisfied, and still keep them in the depressing state so many of them are already in.

The best solution would be for them to take corrective therapy or something and follow the biological, and medically sound answer. By complimenting the human body, rather than allowing the brain to enjoy something it's body will suffer from down the road.

I would be happy to provide the links to my research. However, I tell you this- I know a lot of people go into these debates without any research beforehand whatsoever. I put hours of my day aside to look into things like Shawn Lucas, and Trumps "racist" past. I'll study things like the mental buildup of the male and female brain, and my studies often take me far back as the 60's and 70's.

I know most people are lazy and don't care to research. But if you want to see my sources then I will post them here. However. . . for as strongly as some people will resist people like myself. . . you would think that they already know a few things about the statistics and what I'm talking about. . . right?

Either way, here's some of my resources. I hope it makes a good starting point. I have a lot of different reference scources for the things that I am talking about. XP

http://www.cdc.gov/std/syphilis/stdfact-msm-syphilis.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/std/tg2015/specialpops.htm#msm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9815211

https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/cdph/HIV_STI/2014HIVSTISurveillanceReport.pdf

Please note that this is only a small portion of my research.I cannot stress enough that abusive amounts of buttsex is not the only cause of pain in the homosexual community. But if one looks at facts as staggering as these, I honestly have to ask a question. How can anyone encourage these people? They need help! Not a clapping of hands forward!

Sword legion :  I meant in text quotations, footnotes or something to display the exact point when you refer to a source. That way it is easy to distinguish when you're quoting sources and when you're going based on your own perceptions of the data. Anyway on to my reply, this is going to be a bit of a combination replying to you addressing me as well as the other replies you made in this sthread.

Right, I can understand the logic behind wanting to discourage unsafe sex, what I don't get is how that gets you to single out homosexuality as the problem because these non traditional methods of sex occurs in people of all sexual orientations. Sure it is more common in homosexual people because of the circumstances, but if your focus was preventing the spread of STDs condoing Unsafe sex in stead would make more sense. Condoms do get rid of the risk of an STD spreading assuming it's being used and functions like it should, there is no increased risk anymore. Of course there is a small risk of something unexpected happening, like a condom breaking but even then one should take into account that something like HIV usually isn't transmitted on your first unprotected exposure to a carrier but rather from continued exposure. So the chance of ever being infected if you take the right precautions would be very small. The same thing is the case with your other example of lesbian women contracting "Genital Human Papillomavirus". That is by no means exclusive to lesbian women since it infects through skin contact. It's just more common and in this case it's purely because lesbian women are less likely to use protection and do sexual acts that involve direct skin contact with sexual organs, it stems from a lack of education on the matter. Would you use the same logic if say two straight people one of which has HIV,  wanted to have sex while using a condom?

Furthermore the existing depression many homosexual people face isn't because they feel "sexually unsatisfied" but rather because they aren't able to live openly with their sexuality to begin with. Or if they have laws protecting them, they still face exclusion, people who condemn them, see them as mentally sick and in a few very extreme cases (extreme in the western world at least) there are even people who think they should be executed. All the more common is parents either disowning or trying to cure their child when they work up the courage to come out as homosexual/bisexual. Take that all into consideration and I don't think it's surprising that homosexual people may feel depressed. You could argue this "sexual dissatisfaction" plays into it somehow but that is purely theoretical, no facts you've given actually support homosexual people feeling a sexual dissatisfaction. If anything what we've seen supports the opposite. As for "correctional therapy" I assume you mean treating homosexuality going based on the standpoint that it can be treated which again nothing you've provided suggests it can be. Since we've concluded that it's a natural occurrence that occurs without human involvement, you would be suppressing someone's sexuality not getting rid of it, which would be no different than having a heterosexual person attend similar therapy. There I could understand the argument of feeling unfulfilled or depressed because that person would become conditioned to feel shameful for even having sexual thoughts or desires which is likely to lead a person to the conclusion that something is wrong with them leading into darker thoughts... I think you can figure out the rest of the process yourself.

"Thieves make choice, so do drug dealers and so do gay people". If you want to go that far everything is making a choice. I'm making a choice to act based on my heterosexual desires, I make a choice to get out of bed today, our lives are based on choices. You are not born a prostitute/thief/animal abuser/drug dealer, you can be born with conditions that can influence you to become any one of those things or (which is more likely) circumstances that can influence you in that direction but nothing guarantees you will.  When someone discovers that they're gay, it's just as learning that you're straight you can't simply get rid of that and it isn't influenced by circumstance.

 Moving on, the point I was making here was that all the other things you described involve other people being taken advantage of.  Anal sex (between two consenting adults) does not. I can't believe you would compare this to 13 year olds and pedophilia. 13 year olds cannot make good decision in this regard, as though they may have started maturing physically they have not matured psychologically. Specifically in terms of decision making. They are prone to making decisions without analyzing the consequences (for reference see this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2475802/ ). I'm sure you're aware of that being the reason children living with their parents.

The argument of it being natural comes in to play on the debate of whether it is an inborn behavior of if it's something that can be cured. The question I posed is knowing that it is natural and also considering the fact that simply being homosexual (without partaking in unsafe sex) does not in any way, shape or form reduce your psychological or physical capabilities or harm others (...as eating another human being would). Why would you condemn it? While you haven't mentioned it yet going by your line of reasoning so far I'm sure you'll use something like the prison example, where prisoners "turn gay" after spending long amounts of time exclusively among other men. However these people still acknowledge the fact that they are heterosexual and are doing it purely from the point of sexual desire. So I ask you again, why would you condemn it? You can state that in your own experience sexual deviancy comes from other factors but that isn't providing a data or a convincing argument.

Finally to answer your last question, because no matter which method of sex one uses there is always a risk of infection. This has been the entire point I'm making, being homosexual increases risk purely because you're more likely to practice unsafe sex there is no inborn risk. If a homosexual person practices safe sex they will in theory have no more of a chance of contracting it than a heterosexual individual who practices safe sex. The higher amount of people in the homosexual community who have an STD is caused by a lack of precaution. Anal sex is purely a risk factor not the cause of various STDs and only practicing vaginal sex does not mean you have no chance of contracting an STD. It occurs in people of all sexual orientations regardless of methods used. So it comes back to teaching safe sex to children one of the focal parts of which involves the use of condoms in recreational sex (whether that be vaginal or anal).

Sword legion : .... Cool story, milord. The thought and exploration you put into this very scrutinized and personal topic really amazes me, truly a sight to behold. I didn't know much about STD's, but with what you said in mind, I'll make sure to keep my distance and carefully choose who and how I engage in sexual intercourse. Something I'd definitely admit is that being gay creates many problems on it's own, from a societal standpoint. It cannot be passed on as some sort of mental conditioning, it is most likely a concious decision, or a desire to explore sexuality in a way that deviates from the norm to enlighten one's perspective, in a similar vein to transexuality. What would interest me is if you personally told me what you honestly think makes people live in this way. No offense to the LGBT community, I'm definitely not homophobic, maybe sort of clueless and puzzled on the subject. Ultimately, homosexuality and the like are a massive gamble. For anyone who lives in that way, be careful what you wish for, friends. 

Well, yea. You've been making posts like this for at least a year, if not years, condemning homosexuality. I wasn't sure what word would work better than crucify. Not to mention the countless hours you've spent into researching every single angle in which to try and tear down the concept of being gay as a whole. Maybe saying it's a Crusade to bring it down would've been more accurate?

My point was, those who have the means and care about their health will use condoms or other methods to protect themselves from the risks of sexual contact. Those who don't care, well... you can't really force it on them can you? Though it seems like if you had your way, it would be forced upon them. My family member mentioned before has never been one to sleep around, nor has he contracted any serious STDs, so does he fall into your criteria of needing "me throwing him a rope"?

And I'm not sure where this "it comes from a dissatisfaction in life" ideal is coming from. You claim to have all the answers as to the root cause of a person being gay, or the ways to "fix" them, yet you've never experienced it yourself. And as for those who have "gone straight and lived happy lives" argument, are these people saying this close enough to you that you know it's fact, or people in the public's eye who could possibly be doing it to maintain their image?

Another point I was trying to get across, is that outside of being gay in itself, these people go through the exact same struggles in life we do. How you list symptoms of obesity or depression as the result of being gay is kind of odd, considering how common that is in people who are completely straight. And even if those numbers were somewhat higher in gays, wouldn't the shame or guilt they may feel because of society's standards of them also play a part? Just because they're gay, doesn't mean every negative statistic about them stems solely from that alone. Just because the numbers aren't in their favor, doesn't automatically make it their fault. Maybe if gays were accepted from the beginning things would be different, but that's entirely speculation. 

And I think the the biggest point of mention so far was by Zlinqx. The main thing to consider is being gay doesn't create a victim. You constantly compare it to beastiality or pedophilia, when they are completely different in that aspect. If it makes them happy, and no one's being forced into hurting, what's the problem? Who are we as outsiders to this concept rightly the ones to deny them of it? The pursuit of happiness should be a God-given right to anyone, though seeing as how you think being gay keeps an individual from being happy or stems from dissatisfaction, I guess that argument probably wouldn't hold much weight from your perspective. 

Also, the reason people encourage them is because being gay doesn't cause the problems you've mentioned. The individual's choices, albeit collectively from a portion of the group, have lead to these outcomes. Being gay isn't the true root of the problem, it's the choices some of those individuals have made.

When wo/men are living together, supporting each other, it's a threat to the control a doctrine, regime or religion has.
There is an higher exchange of thought and ideals in such couples/groups, and a risk to the status quo.

Hence why the "one man, one woman" relationship model is strongly enforced in various fascist cultures.
A woman is confined to maintaining the household and kids, and a man busy at work.
By ensuring an preoccupied family unit, there is little risk of rocking the boat.

In keeping it so tightlipped and blocking resources, it's left our generation with creeps on the stage to represent (and misdirect) these issues.
It has taken many lives. The shootings this year, and the on-going lack of safe-sex education, all victims to homophobia.

Sword legion : We eat animals because we're omnivores. We need to eat them to survive (vegetarians excluded), and we have the option to kill them morally (not have them feel any pain). Having sex with an animal, however, is not only mentally scarring for the animal but has a high chance of causing infection. There was a story where the animal died shortly after the forced sex, and say what you will about homosexuals catching STDs but I doubt a gay man died a day or two after having anal sex (with the sex being what caused him to die).

And while gays have a higher chance of getting STDs, that's not because they are gay. It's because of factors that again, Zlinqx mentioned like not using condoms or whatever because there's no chance of getting pregnant. People have a higher chance of getting an STD if they share the same blood with someone who's infected or syringes. Doesn't matter if they're straight or gay. That's why doctors clean any syringes and check donated blood for anything bad before giving it to a patient. In fact it's probably legally required (using syringes for drugs is another issue altogether).

I think you may be using a logical fallacy. Namely one called false cause, where just because two things have a correlation, doesn't mean that one causes the other. You should look it up. In this case, you're saying that being gay (or gay sex specifically) causes one to automatically be more prone to STDs, while the actual cause is not using condoms due to lack of education on anal sex.

And as for the depression part- let's say that being gay is the norm and being straight is looked down on. Wouldn't you feel depressed knowing that people hate you just because of your sexuality? That your parents might disown you or you might get shot in a bar that's supposed to be one of your safe spaces? That's how gays feel, and that's why they tend to be more depressed. And straights can be depressed as well- it's not just gays.

Sword legion : Why do you care if some random gay person gets STD's? Are you secretly gay and need laws to prevent you from being your true self?

What I do not understand is the reason you feel the need to post this type of content on a gaming website. I am fully aware of the health risks that can be associated with unprotected sex for gay men and even women. I am gay and very young with that but I am well aware of it and many people act like it will not effect straight people either and their health. " Is homosexuality really safe? " //  " Should we really be supporting homosexuality, and
lesbianism as a right when they are so damaging to human health and
individuality? "  How ignorant.

ZeroTails :

Some people have reported that their animals found the sex acts very enjoyable. Particularly horses if you really want to look into the dark path. . .

Homosexuality and STDs are very heavily connected. The thing is, to avoid the risk, you basically have to do condoms during butt sex. And when you're not wearing a condom one of your other best options is a hand job. Let me ask you this- do you think that this is a fulfilling way to have sex, when simply having sex with a woman instead clears up a lot of these issues?

The thing is, even though the homosexual community has been trying to learn about safe sex and condom since the early 70s. Huge insurgences of AIDs and other STD's still disproportionately affect homosexuals in very large numbers. Even after 40 years of science and education they don't get it. Why is that?

Yeah, I would be depressed. But not as depressed as gay people who live a completely unhealthy lifestyle. They have to wear condoms all the time and settle for hand jobs just to have peace of mind. I wouldn't say that's a very fulfilling way to live. In fact, maybe that's the reason that a majority of gay people haven't done that. Maybe condom butt sex and hand jobs are just that lame after a while. Maybe they feel like they have play unprotected in order to be satisfied. Spontaneous sex can become quite blissful-

What I'm talking about here is not a case of false cause but rather inevitable play

So to speak, although homosexuals may claim they can have safe sex their entire life. For some reason, they go beyond this and make up a disproportionate amount of the STD carriers and such. I don't know why this is, but I might guess that the fact that they can't rely on the vagina for easy gratification. . . they need other means for having sex. And if safe sex is not appealing enough. . . and if they feel the NEED to have unsafe sex. (Like they feel the need to have gay sex) Then they may do it.

That is where things get more black than grey. It certainly would explain why they have so much


Zlinqx :

We never agreed that homosexuality is natural- rather, whether it is "natural" or not is irrelevant. At least in the way you define it.

I single out homosexuality, because many of the forms of sex they are going to use- are not safe. You can use condoms, and you can stick to hand jobs- that helps a lot. But if it's so easy to say that homosexuality is a behavior that is just as safe as straight sex, then let me ask you this.

Why is it over the last 40 years that cities like Chicago and San Francisco have been studying MSM have still found staggeringly large numbers of homosexuals who are infected with more than just AIDs, but also syphilis?

If safe sex is all you need to know and practice. . . why is it that over the last 40 years HIVs has only gotten worse for the gay community in one of our most heavily populated cities? Is it because gay people can't enjoy having sex consisting mostly of condoms and hand jobs? Or is it because in order to truly enjoy a relationship- safe sex is not enough, and gay people need to do it in order to make up for the lack of a vagina?

If they can't fix the situation after a 40 year period across the US. . . then I'm going to have to say it's just a bad lifestyle and one that people should avoid.

Homosexuality can be changed and many people have done it. My Genes Made Me Do It By Doctor Whitehead and his wife have listed several accounts in it. One article you might read is this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/01/us/ex-gay-men-fight-view-that-homosexuality-cant-be-changed.html

I think it's pretty funny that for as many people who claim they can't change their sexuality. . . there are plenty who will say it's great, and it's possible.

Yet because of biased and hateful pro-homosexual groups they actually have to keep kindof quite.

I'll side the the idea of actions based on design. That's the only way I'm going to see a person being happy if you ask me. Not by following some perverse hiccup. Why don't you want to help gay people Zlinqx? When you look at the body scientifically. . . and someone picks up a behavior that comes with large amounts of sexual risk- and that behavior clearly violates their bodies design. . . doesn't that merit that you would want to help them get out of it and into something safer?


Mynamescox44 :

You know me so well you may as well take my mugshot right now. I'm impressed. Yes, I'm a bigot who didn't care to do any research and decided to just support on side of the field. I'm an emotionally weak person who can't handle reality and needs to go the internet for my protection. There's no way what I'm saying or trying to do has any merit to it or that I'm just trying to do the right thing. I'm a horrible person who's trying to start some sort of a rebellion. After all, I won't even address the facts that keep getting quoted at me and think more open minded about the situation. I'm truly a terrible individual.

You can attack me personally all you want. I don't care, and I know why your name is glowing lot's of pretty colors as of now. I'm not too worried about what you have to say about my character after all.

Maybe if you actually did your research you would see things more like me? Oh, but that's kindof an irrelevant personal attack and. . . I'm sorry, I don't really have time for that. Posts like your's don't hold much merit once they head off the logical end and begin to spiral down the path emotional bias. Before you go though, I would like to say this:

The pursuit of happiness should be a God-given right to anyone, though seeing as how you think being gay keeps an individual from being happy or stems from dissatisfaction, I guess that argument probably wouldn't hold much weight from your perspective.

Actually, it holds no weight because you're talking to me about God, and you probably couldn't quote the first three lines of Genesis. . . I don't have time for that sort of people. You kindof started to lose me with the very first phrase of your first post:

So, at this point I just have to ask...

But now I see what you're really up too. I just don't have time for that. You don't seem to understand what a debate or an article is for. Period. Go waste somebody else's time. After two posts I can already see where you're going.

Oh! And I've never experienced gayness for myself? You want to know how I would know what gay people could possibly be thinking? Let me introduce you into the concept of outside observance! Like a therapist studies other human beings and then tries to help them with their problems, or like I study what other people have said and how they've acted ect. I can make judgement calls too based on what a person likes and might have to gain from their present actions! But you're no stranger to that are you? You've already made plenty of judgement calls about me since the beginning of this thread! So there's no introducing this new concept to you, is there?

Now that's funny!


Ultrajeff :

Thanks sire. yeah, I do my best. It's kindof hard when people become so hateful and try to discourage you like that but. . . I still gotta try. I put a lot of time into researching this topic before I had a say on it. I must admit, what I found out had me shocked. It's not at all what you would expect to find going into it, especially the way the major media portrays it.


EX Palen :

Yeah, thanks for mentioning.

Indeed. If I had written an article on nicotine and the harmful affects of cigarettes, many people would be on my side. Even if I had written an article on how abortion is performed and why it's wrong people would have probably agreed with me.

It's because I am attacking something fundamental about people's lifestyle and trying to warn them about the bad side of it.


bombchu link :

Yeah, thanks, I thought you might like that. What was fun was looking into Bible verses on homosexuality to see if truly was forbidden in the original Hebrew. That was very interesting. The staggering numbers I found against homosexuality just from a medical perspective were really horrifying. And from some of our most liberal progressive cities as well. It was a shock, now I can hardly pretend to stay neutral on the table.


Silver Hyruler:

I dunno, I keep a sleep journal though. Want to read some of the wet dreams I had recently? I bet you'd think they're awesome!


gabrielfalcon :

Maybe because this is a gaming website- with a forum for stuff like this?

I'd like to think that's why it's here. I don't know, I could be terribly mistaken. I hope I'm not too butt hurt and unable to think clearly. That would be a pity right now.

My post was never an attack on your character, but merely the "outside observation" you stand so firmly behind. And my name glowing has nothing to do with my character. If you've ever said something in your life while you felt one way, then changed your mind later on for whatever reason, then you're the same as me.

I think you're taking this a little too personally man. You're free to say what you like, just like I am. Do I have anything against you? Not at all. Just because we're on opposite sides of this argument, doesn't mean we have to be hostile, or are explaining our points in a hostile tone. I think you're making more presumptions about me than I have of you.

And in your comment to Palen, you say "warn them of the bad side of it." You're not warning against the bad aspects, you're campaigning against the concept of homosexuality as a whole. That's why so many people are disagreeing with you.

Sword legion : Sure, why the heck not. PM me, I guess?

SilverHyruler :
Sword legion :

Flaming each other will result in consequences. Possibly bans.