Oldschool777: Your first post was nearly filled with logical fallacies, namely ad hominem and personal incredulity.

Exhibit A. "Gun laws makes a criminal's job safer,you dipstick."
I do understand where you are coming from, but calling me a dipstick is completely irrelevant and doesn't help your case at all. It's like if I responded by saying, "How about you go suck on a dipstick?" More onto what you said about gun control, how would it make it harder for the average person to get a gun? The average person is not a criminal and should be able to get their guns perfectly fine. It doesn't make it impossible to get your weapons, it just weeds out the criminals. On top of that, there is only a select minority of criminals that would resort to illegally obtained firearms.

Ronald Reagan's act of banning Californians from carrying guns in public was regarded as a heroic act. People praised Sarah Palin when she disarmed much of Alaska's state defense force. Mitt Romney signed a law that would ban assault weapons and became the final Republican candidate for the 2012 elections. Barack Obama suggested a limit on assault weapon magazine sizes, and suddenly everyone acts like they're going to lose all their guns. Tell me, Oldschool777, how many guns have you had confiscated? And how much do you think you actually need 30-round magazine sizes for fully automatic weapons? What, are you scared of being robbed by a grizzly bear in the middle of the night?

Exhibit B. On climate change: "What can the lay person do about it,Faded? Tell me,I would love to know and then skewer you on each point."
What can we do about climate change? We can't reverse the effects of it, but we sure can slow it down. Move to renewable energy sources like solar, hydroelectric, or wind power. Many people oppose offshore wind farms because it's "too expensive." Yes, it's expensive to install them, but they pay for themselves over time. What would you rather save: A couple billion dollars in total over the next few hundred years, or the entire planet's well-being? Go ahead, skewer me. Show everyone why you think we can't do anything to reduce the speed of climate change.

Exhibit C. The Emails
I agree. She did something stupid with the emails. But I believe that with all this hate she has learned to follow policy. The only crime she actually committed was breaking the rules. Rules are put in place so bad things don't happen. 0 bad things happened because of it except for her reputation being whittled down. She broke a rule and should be punished, but the ideas of firing her, keeping her from running for president, and even the insane idea of throwing her in prison are just preposterous.

Exhibit D. "As for Benghazi,she knew about the danger and did nothing."
Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi. When will people stop being ignorant? She actually tried to send troops over but 1. There wasn't enough time to fly them over, and 2. Other government authorities and committee members, not Hillary, tried to stop troops from going over. Read this and realize what fallacy you're spewing: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/14/mike-pence/pence-falsely-says-clinton-didnt-send-help-during-/

Exhibit E. "Christ,grow a backbone,Faded. If you do not like what he said,IGNORE it. It is easy. We all say off color jokes and joke about the opposite gender. The world is not a safe space. Do you really think your precious Clinton cares for the ones that are poor? No. She only cares about herself and her cronies."
Again, ad hominem. I actually do have a backbone, and it's made of 24 little bumps. How can you ignore what your soon-to-be-president says? Donald Trump is the voice of the angry American, but I should be expected to ignore his comments. Sure, alright. How about you ignore the things Hillary has said that you disagree with?

Yes, many of us joke about the opposite gender, but how many of us call respected women fat pigs and slobs, or dare I say pathetic excuses of a human being? Is that really joking? Is it really joking when someone generalizes the population of an entire country as drug dealers and rapists?

And yes, I do believe Hillary Clinton cares for the poor. What do you think a Democrat is? Both Hillary and Bill Clinton grew up in poor families. They are definitely wealthy now, but the memory of how it feels to be poor lives on. Hillary supports the Affordable Care Act, something designed especially with the less fortunate and poor in mind. Do you think Donald Trump, a multi-billionaire, someone who has NEVER been in a family that doesn't have multiple millions of dollars. Do you really think that Donald Trump cares about something he is physically incapable of understanding?

Do not feel attacked. This is what this forum should be about. There is too much news and all too little heavy debating going on. I would like to personally thank you for your responses. Although it's obvious we disagree on almost everything, I think it is good to see what others think about the same issues. My mind has really been broadened from reading the responses in this thread, though my opinions go mostly unchanging.

honestly i'm assuming most of them just wanted to see what would happen when you have a non-politician in office

like a social experiment minus the sexual assault (mostly)

SilverHyruler : lol yeah totally agree

Ahh the Faded one comes out.

A. Gun laws make it tougher for the average citizen to protect themselves. Now,every time a mass shooting happens or some horrific event happens,the first rally cry is "ban all guns". That slaps extra restrictions on buying a weapon. Which puts it that further out of reach. Let me share something with you.

https://mic.com/articles/22835/gun-control-facts-detroit-crime-rate-is-the-result-of-gun-control#.gq1eWsixw

Read it. Enlighten yourself.

B. And those alternate ways of doing things are either very expensive,not efficient,or untested for large scale use. Look,now if Joe Blow wants to install them,fine. But they would take forever to "pay for themselves". Sure,we should think of the planet,but if we do not think of ourselves,how do we survive to help the planet?

C. If you or I did that,we would either be fired or brought up on charges. The law applies to everyone. No one is supposed to be above the law. She needs to be in jail.

D. Interesting. But still,as a former Secretary of State,she should have been able to barrel past them and gotten troops there.

E. I am willing to let Hilary say what she wants,she has already dug her political grave. No way she would be considered a viable candidate for at least 8 years. We all joke around,but most of us know when it is said in jest. Now,is Trump perfect? No way in hell. But ,are we tired of the same old thing and do we really want to choke on what is basically Obama's 3rd term? No.

That may be true,but people quickly forget their roots. Want proof? Arkansas,the Clinton's home base for many years,voted overwhelmingly for Trump. She cares nothing for anyone except herself and her cronies. Now,would Trump know what it is like to live paycheck to paycheck? No.

I bear you no ill will and like the tradition on Returns Day,we should bury the hatchet and not in each other's backs. But I think you will agree that change was needed. We gave Obama a chance and I think it is safe to say we paid for the choice dearly. Trump deserves at least his first 100 days before we decide if we want him around for the next term.

TheFadedWarrior : Now that is borderline logical. You really had to do some thinking this time rather than just repeat the perfectly identical blather I have seen just about everywhere you can imagine.

Good neutral rationale to disarm the ad hominem. I can see it did you no harm at all.


This one is a bit odd though. You are willing to give a corrupt Clinton of the current establishment the benefit of the doubt; Oldie aimed his vitriol directly at you and tried to get more personal than he knows how and you just shrugged; Don Trump gets no pass at all in your still developing mind full of opinions[mostly derived from other sources] and no benefit of reasonable doubt is reserved for him. Is it hate? Is a hater what you want to be?

I never really hated anyone I spoke against. My influence is intended to quell hatred and unreasoning.


Just wondering. Why the unequal treatment when you seem to be making an attempt at balance?



So, Dear "Whatever the mood strikes you" supporter,

you asked us, so it's fair now I must ask you, why?




...

P3

Just gonna leave this link riiiiiiight... here
Feel free to take a gander at that video. It's what all of these people nationwide that are engaging in all the ridiculous bickering and such need to hear atm.
If you can't handle some screaming in a song, then check out this link
to see just the lyrics.


Also gotta say, Hilary's campaign and potential presidency would be best summed up by this video

Regardless, Trump won the presidential election, the end. Can we all just get over the drama and look at each other like we did BEFORE all of this started? I supported Trump, but does that make me some evil monster that I wasn't a week ago? You supported Hilary, that doesn't change who you are.

Give it up guys. Let's just see our friends and fellow Vizzed users the same way we did on the seventh of the month, alright?

Eirinn : ^^ i personally dont support trump but i think its mean to basically bully someone for supporting him and you guys all need to relax...

Nothing is going to change. It never does.

Wanna see how my candidate did?

Vanelan : its funny cuz its true

Do not believe everything the media says because they are occasionally spewing ignorance, just because someone said something doesn't automatically mean its true. I didn't support neither Hillary or Trump until this day, but Hillary has a really dark history but people don't realize it. 
Trump may be disrespectful but i believe he can really do good for this country. But then again thats what i believe. 
Lets keep this thread civilized 

RDay13 : Actually if you believe arab conspiracy theories (you probably shouldn't most of the time) Obama (and Hillary) is to blame for Daesh and the like. Usually don't believe the theories but this one could be true.
EDIT: welp completely misread so nvm user lmao

Hillary Clinton has more popular votes than trump so wouldn't you think she would've secured the white house. Maybe we should've taken Donald Trump for granted and voted often in addition to voting early. Also, the 8th was just a pre-election, the real election is on November 35th 2016 lol. Two of the things I mentioned above are what make Trump supporters idiotic. Heck, a woman in Iowa was arrested for trying to vote twice. Had she got her way, then Trump's claims of the election is rigged would then be partially true but since she was caught that shows you how NOT RIGGED the election was.

In accordance with my Christian faith, Trump is a horrible person that we should not support. I have no idea why my fellow Christians would sacrifice their integrity for him.

Taxgangsta: Agreed!

Txgangsta : I'm not particularly a religious person, but I definitely agree. How could anyone with any morals support such an unethical person?

Txgangsta : For me, it's not really a matter of support so much as a matter of preservation. For as long as I can remember, albeit not very long, it's always been the equivalent of having to pick between shark wrestling or sky diving without a parachute. I don't support any of them.

TheFadedWarrior- By this reasoning, there would've been no reason to vote at all. Everyone running for president, everyone in the House of Representatives or the Senate, everyone in government in general is unethical to some degree because you have to be willing to annihilate everything in your way to make it to such a position. In gangs, you have to blow someone's brains out for initiation. In office, you just have to lie, cheat, steal, bribe, blackmail and sell yourself to the highest bidder.

m0ssb3rg935 : Why would you sacrifice your integrity by making that choice at all? Rise above the baseless.

Txgangsta : Well, just for clarity, I didn't actually have the chance to vote because I'm having difficulty getting ID. However, I would've voted against Hilary anyway, and I don't think there's anything immoral about that decision. There are very specific issues that I have very rigid stances on and not defending that would be sacrificing my integrity. If you give up what you believe in to defend what you believe in, what do you really believe?

m0ssb3rg935 : With Trump, you don't think supporting him is giving up part of your beliefs to defend your beliefs? That's exactly what I meant by "sacrificing integrity". You didn't believe in civility? You didn't believe in educated representatives? You didn't believe in respect for races and culture? You didn't believe in free trade? You didn't believe in family values? Trump is none of these things, and I couldn't sacrifice my beliefs to defend my beliefs against Hilary.

Txgangsta : I don't believe that Trump was being genuine with half of the stuff he said while he was campaigning and the other half has been twisted and distorted so much that they're almost lies. I don't believe that Trump is as much of a sexist as people make him out to be and he's not a racist or a xenophobe. The tape was recorded before he was married and a lot of people who're close to him say he's tamed since, and even if he hasn't, what he says and does on his time is his business. Wanting to build a wall to prevent people we know absolutely nothing about from waltzing right on into the country is an act in favor of national security, not xenophobia. Stating the obvious that there are in fact people that are jumping the border are raping, murdering and trafficking drugs is just that and not racism.

At the same time, a whole lot of us don't believe he's really going to do much of anything he said he will. His election was a band-aid for four years and a huge middle finger to the establishment, who thinks they can just push one of their cronies off on us and we'll play along. I'm very firm on my beliefs, but holding my breath and stomping my feet because I didn't get my way while an onslaught on not just mine, but everyone's individual rights ensues just isn't an option. A vote against Trump is a vote for Hilary, whether any of us like it or not. For a great many of us, this was the alternative to mass arson in DC.