Gen 1 and 2 had the best balance between moves, types, pokemon and story. When gen 3 came along, it was like they were trying too hard with the new moves they created. The new pokemon werent as fresh, and it just seemed like they were stretching for ideas. Every gen after 3 has just gotten progressively worse. Mega pokemon? That idea has fail written all over it. Every pokemon game since gen 2 has been overrated due to the momentum the franchise had from the first 2 gens. It almost feels like you want to like the game because you like liked previous games from the same franchise, but hype and desire have disguised the reality that the quality of the newer gens cannot compete with the quality of gens 1 and 2.

bobq : i kinda know what your talking about so i usually use transfer with pokemon i do however miss playing pokemon generation one

bobq : yeah your very right but i actually don't think gen 3 was that bad it's kinduv my favorite gen 6 is probably the worst they could lot's of the poemon are stupid and aren't cool at all and Fairy type actually ruined the types weaknesses and resistences for me they try to hard to make it cool but fail in the process

   First off, yeah, the Pokémon designs seem to have dropped off a bit. But remember that gen 1 and 2 had some stinkers as well. Muk, Koffing, and Voltorb are all pretty lame. And calling gen 1 balanced is way off. Psychic and dragon were both way over powered. Not to say that gen 1 isn't great, but it is far from perfect. If anything, the battles themselves have only gotten better with the addition of double battles, triple battles, and cycle battles to change it up a bit. 
   Although, something I can easily say generation 1 and 2 were by far best at, with no question is the fact that your rival is actually a rival, instead of just some lame friend or something. Trying to defeat them feels much more rewarding, and losing hurts, where the friends seem to act like it's ok. But I think the hate for anything that isn't generation 1 or 2 gets much more hate than is deserved.

bobq : This is your 666th post.  As such, it is not to be trusted.  DOWN WITH BOBQ!  DOWN WITH DEMOCRACY!  UP WITH ANARCHY!  PRAISE HELIX!

People just don't want to be blessed by Helix, like Pikachu here:



As a Helix worshipper, I can respect your opinion.  However, I choose not to because I love anarchy.

I think you have a typo. I think it is supposed to be Pokemon after Gen 1 Stinks, not 2. I am a gen 1 completely. I can't tell you the name of even 10 Pokemon after gen 1. When I saw that it was just the exact same thing with just a bunch more Pokemon to know, I backed out immediately. Glad I did, too. Because they add a little bit here and there with each game, but it is still the EXACT same thing every single time over and over. It is like the Madden series (or any sports game series). Play one, you have pretty much played them all. Might as well just buy only one, or you are just throwing your money at games you technically already have.

patar4097 :

First of all, Muk was awesome, ok. But I agree that Voltorb was a craptacular pokemon. I would have liked for psychic to have been the 8th gym instead of the 6th, so that it would be a bit more of a challenge. I was not a fan of the double battles though and less so when they increased. The rivalry was at its best in pokemon yellow, and it gave a different look at the rival battle than the other gen 1 games. I would have liked gen 1 more if they had better learned movesets, which is what was my favourite part of gen 2. But gen 1 will always be a classic. Gen 2 would have been better if the rival's pokemon got stronger each time you faced him before the elite 4.

rcarter2 : I don't completely agree with you. Generation 2 is what generation 1 could have been. Everything was better. Graphics, length, and overall gameplay.  Much more balanced, and I believe everything was done better, with the exception of maybe how the trainers leveling was done. After that, it wasn't quite as much improvement, besides the addition of online battles starting in generation 4, it wasn't ever anything that was really worth it, unless you really like the game. What is the point of sequels at all then? It's supposed to build off of what the last one did well, and improve the problems of it. 

patar4097 : I disagree with the sequel concept you gave. I don't think the purpose is to just improve the concepts of the previous game to make it better. I believe that sequels in games should be like they are in movies. The heart of it is the same, but we get something that is also very new. A continuation of the previous story or a completely new story for the characters. Improving the flaws and concepts of the game is only part of it, and that is ALL the Pokemon games focused on. No matter how you look at it, the main objective is the same every time. Beat the Elite Trainers at the end. No real stake in it other than just to beat them for the sake of beating them. Great to do once, but a second, third, fifth, etc is not gonna do it for me. They need to do something with the main goal of the game to make me have any vested interest in the plot. That is mainly my issue. The plots are non-evolving and constant every single game.

Not saying that there aren't franchises that don't do the same thing. Mario, for instance. The main plot ALMOST every Mario game is Bowser kidnapping the princess. But what they have managed to do is is to make a completely new experience with every one of their games. Sure, Pokemon makes new towns, new islands, etc. But they don't really give you a new experience. Mario does a great job at making creative and new worlds and dynamics with each game. That is why they can get away with using the same plot idea. Pokemon games don't remotely do near as much as they do with making it new. They do exactly what you said it does. Just improves on what they already have built. They don't really take chances. They play it safe. So they are failing, in my opinion, in doing what sequels should do. Give us more, but also give us a new experience (or at least one that continues the story where the last one left off). I don't even see the Pokemon games as sequels. They are more like v1.000, v1.001. v1.002, etc. New coat of paint, a few fixes, a few tweaks, and sell it as if it were new. Just like sports games from EA does every single year.

Nintendo has a problem with originality. Though you got to say. After all these years people are still buying the games, playing them, and talking about them in threads such as this one. I would say soul silver was the last one worth playing. Though I have not tried black/w or will I with x/y. Mainly for the reason patar4097 stated " Pokémon designs seem to have dropped off a bit".
but hey ...we can always look forward to the next company that feels like taking on the digital monster concept right?

rcarter2 : Well, I think a sequel can be done good without making it feel really "new". Look at Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Twooie. You can barely tell from the outside that they are different, but are still both great, and I haven't seen complaints on that. However, I do agree that going this far into the series with the same thing is a bit much. And yes, making the game feel new is usually needed in a sequel as well.
 
    As for Pokémon, I feel sort of the same way where a bigger change would be great. Like you said, to see Game Freak take some chances would be really refreshing to see. I'm really just against the view of people saying that this makes the newer ones worse. Taking the EA sports games for instance. They are the same thing, but most of the time, the newest ones are still the best version, even when they are 99% the same as last time. So, if you had a choice between the two for the same price, most likely the newest will be your choice.

   But one thing that I really hope gets left behind next time is the multiple versions. It was cool in Red and Blue having version differences, but it doesn't really serve the same purpose now. 

I would say after 3rd gen personally, most 4th gen Pokemon were pretty cool and still creative and original, I think it was most visible that Pokemon were losing their originality in the 5th and 6th generations. They started running out of ideas and they started making Pokemon out of things like ice cream and piles or garbage and stuff of that nature. I think that after 3-4th generation it just started to go downhill from there and it will only continue to get worse as Pokemon continues and Nintendo runs out of ideas. Don't get me wrong, a good portion of the new Pokemon are cool and all, but it these new gens, mainly 5 and 6, it is noticeable that Nintendo is running out of ideas and material to make pokemon out of if they have to resort to objects like swords and ice cream.

Gen 1 had a broken battle system that made Dragon and Psychic OP. It as well had little story; the Pokémon League, the few Team Rocket things, & maybe the rival battles were pretty much all there was to the story. The Gen 1 games were also really glitchie. Gen 2 started improving upon these things, adding more story & fixing the mechanics, Gen 3 was where you really started seeing the improvements. You really can't hate Gen 1 as it's where it all started, but even so it's kinda overrated and far from perfect. 

Also, Fun Fact: An NPC in the Generation 1 games described Munna, a 5th Generation Pokémon 



They probably had hundreds of Pokémon designs before the Gen 1 games were even released.

I know what you are talking about but some people actually like the new pokemon games not just because of the boost from gen 1 and 2. My first pokemon game was pearl and I enjoyed it. The pokemon are still fresh too I mean just compare these 2 honedge (awesome sword thing) to eggxecute or however you spell it(pile of eggs).

Woo~ Biased opinion seed of a thread. Good debate material. Bob, just be sure you're alright with taking in so much debate, whether your opinion is correct or not doesn't matter to me, but man, a lot of people could get biased on this matter, totally strong debate material, just be sure you know what you signed up for Mr. Strong opinion. Just to be clear, I could care less about Pokemon, but that isn't true for everyone, just yeah... I think this forum should be in Debate/Logic/ New discussion, feels right for this thread, plus arguments might be better here, and there will totally be arguments if there aren't already. Anyway, I'm talking too much, I'm going to end up getting dragged in at this rate and nah... Just nah.

Local Mods : Can I get a forum switch to the debate forum? I feel this would do better there.

P.S. Why do people summon people to their own threads?

Pokémon after gen 2 stinks. I'm also grew up when Pokémon was only gen 1, so I may be a bit biased. Objectively speaking, there is little wrong with the other Pokémon games other than they are too large. There are too many Pokémon, and they ran out of cool ones to make. With that little exception, they're kinda all the same.

I will say that gen 1 is my favorite, but gold and silver were actually decent sequels. Usually a sequel is awful and only about half the length but twice the price. Gold and silver were actually longer to complete and, for my 12 year old mind, well written.

My washing machine broke down a month ago and all this Pokémon stuff stinks more than my fifth generation of dirty underwear.

Was there not supposed to be a whole section here where you can talk about this crap instead of here? So take it there.

Brigand : I had it moved here because I felt like it would belong here, it's a thread full of biased opinions that have turned into a debate of sorts, so I had it moved to the Debate/ Logic forum in order to potentially get this forum some more activity, assuming you didn't look up two posts you would have probably noticed that I have a couple reasons for moving the thread here. That being said it's possible you both saw the post and realized I brought here for a reason and still went on to post it.

But we'll see what happens to this thread for the time being, I want to see what time does to it and all of that. Could be good, probably won't but I want to see that possibility for myself.

Frodlex :

I read the whole thing but will still stand my ground. This don't belong here. But fair enough. If I am minority here.

Hey look a pokemon debate

But I sorta agree on what you are saying BBQ but it depends on peoples opinions on the games. Like me personally there was a few things I didn't like such as not being able to run in first gen games(can't remember if gen 2 had running shoes or not) but for newer gens things like the pokerader forcing you to hunt for better results of shinies sure a lot of like it but if you aren't good at concentrating it gets pretty annoying. Another thing that could be mentioned about the older gyms that there was some seriously OP pokemon gyrados for example. But since then a lot of pokemon have been balanced and some made to weak since then but either way it is all by opinion of people. Only thing else I can think of to add is the fact of designs but they usually don't bother me much. So in the end I agree a lot but not all after gen 2 sucks and it still has things that add good improvements on the game.