Now I know there's been threads on this before but all I could find seems to be closed so if i'm wrong and there is one that is open feel free to close this and re direct me there.

Anyways so yeah the question at hand is rather self explanatory are you pro life or pro choice? Do you think abortion should be allowed and if you do/don't to what degree and why please tell why / why not you think the way you do.

So since I recently (about a month ago) wrote a paper on the topic for biology class I would like to share it with you as it summarizes my entire opinion on the topic pretty well and when reading this I would like you to keep in mind it's from a Swedish perspective and the abortion law that's in place there since that's where I live however that shouldn't really change my point.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that i'm in no way all knowing so if there's something that you don't agree with in my text feel free to respond and i'll try answering as best as I can.

Note: While I try to use proper english there might be some parts where I don't always use the proper term and that is usually not because I don't have knowledge but rather because english is my 2nd language so if you spot anything feel free to correct me.

Here it is:

Abortion is when you remove a fetus from the pregnant woman's womb. This is most commonly done when a unwanted pregnancy has occurred which can derive from many different things. Abortion has been a very controversial topic as those who are pro life says it's wrong to kill a living being but those who are pro choice says it's the woman's decision and that it's not the same thing as killing a child.

I'm going to compare both sides of the argument based on facts and see how they hold up against each other in the end i'm also going to give my opinion on the subject.

The current abortion law in Sweden has been in place since 1974 and states that you're allowed to get an abortion up until the 18th week of pregnancy no matter the reason for it. This could be extended to week 22 if you have permission to do so and is then usually because of medical reasons. The definition of abortion is Sweden is if the pregnancy has been stopped before week 28 and the fetus has been born dead. If the fetus is born after the 28th week or if it's alive it is seen as a child in the eyes of the law.

So like I said the main argument for pro life is that you're killing a child. Which makes the question if the fetus in question can be classified as a child. Which it to a certain degree can since it is alive during this period. On the other hand it can not survive outside of the pregnant women's stomach until a certain point in the pregnancy and can then be classed as (excuse the harsh wording) parasite before that. The real question is then at which point can the fetus survive outside the stomach?

The person who was born the earliest and survived long enough to be able to leave the hospital was a person from Germany who was born 21 weeks and 5 days into the pregnancy (a normal pregnancy usually lasts around 40 weeks) but the chance of a child surviving before the 23rd week is very small and there's a very large risk that the child may suffer permanent damage that can affect it's quality of life before 32nd week. When taking all this into consideration the current Swedish abortion law is quite precise but there are still arguments that seek to challenge the current law. Those who are pro life say it can still survive and some even think it should be completely forbidden since the fetus is still living and will eventually become a human being. However those that are pro choice often point out (and which I also pointed out previously in the text) that the quality of life can be affected significantly and that sometimes an abortion is a must considering the health of the fetus and the woman like how the blood pressure can be hard to controll leading to permanent damage from bleeding which in turn can lead to permanent damage like blindness.

This is also something that is not controlled by the parents but rather by the doctors.

Then there's also the question if the fetus can feel pain. It has been believed that a fetus cannot start feeling pain until the 24th week of pregnancy however new evidence suggests that it may already be able to feel pain at the 20th week. This could mean that a change in the abortion law could be required in order for us to be as humane as possible. Though in certain cases it might still be a better choice to go through with an abortion due to medical reasons. The problem here though is that this evidence has not been confirmed yet to be true which makes things more complicated and makes it hard to give a clear opinion on it.

Like previously touched on there's also the question of how this affects the women who is pregnant. Though the process of abortion has become a lot more safer due to more advanced medical treatments and other tools. But also because it's become more publicly accepted and more are done in hospitals instead of illegally which makes the chance of damage to the woman decrease by a large amount. This in turn makes it that the risk for physical damage often is small as long as it is done properly and legally. It was also less accepted before because the use of contraceptives was prohibited for the most which also had with religious and cultural reasons to do with.

The risk for emotional damage is also very small which was shown from research that has been made and then stems from the most part from other things. Then there's of course a risk of being depressed if say you wanted to keep the child but had to made an abortion or later regretted it.

Those who are pro life also sometimes say why you can't just put up the child for adoption but there are several reasons why this might not always be the right thing to do. Firstly this forces to women to go through the effects of pregnancy and child may later have feelings of abandonment when it grows up. In the same way the mother might regret putting it up for adoption later in life.

Myself (as you might have noticed) i'm pro choice for many reasons presented in this text. Like previously said the biggest argument is that you're killing a child but I don't agree. Something that's just a cell and can't think or feel pain can't be classed as a human being in my opinion as it lacks what makes us human. Then of course it's a different story if it's further into the pregnancy but at the state an abortion is usually done in it can't really be classified as a human but rather something which can later become a human. And that's what I think a lot of those against abortion are thinking since it can later become a human it is always a human. And like previously said even if it has come a bit further into the pregnancy an abortion might still be the wiser decision because of medical reasons. But I do agree on that there should be some limit on when abortion should not be allowed but that's already in place therefore I don't see why we should ever completely forbid it.

Zlinqx :

Why does survivability matter? You can't survive outside the earth. Why does feeling of pain matter? Some adults can't feel pain. Why does thinking matter? You have nearly no thoughts while under anesthesia.

Txgangsta : Because if you can't think and feel any pain are you even living? If you are is it a life worth living? Would the fetus even know if you're having an abortion since it can't think or feel any pain? And either way does that matter because how can the fetus want to live if it doesn't even know what living is like.

I am pro-choice. There is no reason for it not to be allowed aside from people who simply want to control the female body. I think those people are ridiculous. Imagine having something growing inside of you. It would be pretty scary, right? Some people simply would not be able to handle going through that, and they deserve to have the choice, especially if they would not even be able to afford to keep the child alive after it is born, or in the case of rape. Going through the birthing process would also likely be a poor thing to go through, especially if you are not intending on keeping the child. Giving a child up to adoption can only solve so many problems. Also, what if that child does not get adopted?
There are a lot of children stuck in adoption houses because there are too many children. Obviously, there should be a limit to the number of weeks in a pregnancy can go when one is to go get an abortion, but it should be allowed somewhat far in, to allow for the difficult decision-making time to fruition. The positives outweigh the negatives in this sort of situation. You made some other arguments in your paper, and I pretty much agree with everything you said. 

I stopped reading the moment I read the statement: "Abortion is when you remove a fetus from the pregnant woman's stomach."

That immediately refutes any and all data you use afterwards.

warmaker : I don't see why. Sure maybe I did not use the correct term but that wouldn't invalidate my entire text. My biology teacher gave me an A on the text. I'm sorry if my english is not 100% accurate considering I originally wrote this in Swedish and English is my 2nd language so i'm bound to make a mistake here or there since I translated this in about 20 minutes. 

Zlinqx : It is fine as long as you realize a baby is in a woman's uterus and not her stomach.

warmaker : Well if I didn't use the correct language when writing it in Swedish my teacher would've certainly said so as she is very fixated about using the proper terms when describing things. Still thanks for pointing that out so I could correct it. Now that I did does that make it so the entire text is not refuted automatically?

Zlinqx :

Life is defined as "self-movement", and the most basic movement is growth. Rocks are not alive. Plants are alive.

So, the tissue within the uterus is growing. It's certainly "alive", regardless of other abilities. However, I don't have a problem with killing things that are alive. Everything I eat was once alive. I do have a problem with killing humans.

The question is not about whether or not the fetus is alive. It's very obviously alive. The question is if it is human and if we have to be moral to it.

Txgangsta : Well obviously that was the main thing I argued about in my text. When I said is it even alive I didn't mean alive as in it's growing I meant alive as is it aware of what's happening, Can it think? If the answer is no how would it even know you're having an abortion?

Zlinqx :

If the organism does not know it's being killed, it's not murder? If you go under anesthesia for surgery, you no longer think either. You wouldn't know that I'm secretly killing you. If I make an atomic explosion as a terrorist attack, those that die immediately never knew they were dying either, so those aren't murders.

Knowledge/awareness is another bad answer to "how can I justify abortion?".

Txgangsta : Well then please justify to me why abortion is not okay.

Because if the fetus can't think or feel pain what would it even lose from being aborted? I mean why would the fetus have the thought of wanting to live when it can't even form that thought in the first place and has never had that thought.

And IMO self awareness isn't a bad argument. Yes a person could be under anesthesia but since that person has had self awareness and emotions and it has a life it actually stands something to lose. All a fetus stands to lose is a life it doesn't even know if it wants. I should've probably been more clear in what I meant with that though.

Txgangsta : I feel like you misunderstood me a bit again. Firstly infanticide would not be okay a baby has feelings, can feel pain, and is actually capable of thinking to some degree. Same things go for the elderly I never said you should have an abortion only because it is not self aware.
I rather meant having self awareness along with having emotions, being able to think etc.

And I still don't see why abortion wouldn't be okay. I mean if the parents decided to have an abortion, The fetus itself wont feel any pain and wont have any objections wouldn't that be okay. I mean yes it is alive but why do you so desperatly have to preserve this life? It can later develop all of these things but in it's current state it lacks them all. And if that's the case wouldn't it be okay for a woman to have an abortion if she wants to? I feel that's why we wont ever agree because we disagree on this specific thing.

Yes a flower can't think but somebody still decided that they were going plant the seed. Also flowers serve an important function in that they produce oxygen which we would most likely die without trying not to go into enviromental disscusion too much. And it's different since a flower isn't growing inside you exactly. Yes in some cases you nurture it but that's your decision and it's not the same thing as letting a fetus grow inside you against your will.

This is not even bringing up problems that can come after a child you don't even want is born forcing the woman to go through the stages of pregnancy, forcing the child to go through this experience, having to put up the child for adoption filling up adoption houses just like sop said when there already are kids who are alive that needs someone to adopt them.

So no killing a fetus is not murder since it is not a rational being. It is capable of becoming one later but in it's current state it is not.

I believe that the other threads were closed because there was nothing more to say on the matter and these threads just turn into pits of flame posts.

But if we must bring this up again. I am Pro-Choice. I have always been Pro-Choice and I will always be Pro-Choice. That does not mean that abortion should be used as birth control... it means that the option for a safe, clean abortion should be available to all women that require one.

What Pro-Life people refuse to acknowledge is that women have been aborting pregnancies since ancient times, and just because it is illegal will not stop it. It will just force them to use dangerous methods that may end up killing them. Even if you disagree with their reasons, or the rhetoric, or whatever, it is naive to think that it will stop a woman who has already made up her mind to do it.

Elara : I find it a bit disgusting when men especially tell women that they can't abort something living inside of them. Bottom line is if a woman doesn't wanna go through the pregnancy she has the right to say no to giving birth. And I like how everyone just pretends that every baby born is gonna be a miracle who grows up to be a wonderful person. When in reality the world is full of hood rats and racists and hitlers who should have been aborted, not saying thats always the case of course but let's be fair don't force children on someone not ready to have one. And if someone gives me the stupid well they should have been more careful during sex i'll throw coffee at you and that lame argument's face.

Elara :

It's not really a question of how long have people done something. Murder has happened since human existence. That doesn't mean we need to have a place where people can get their murder on so they don't serial kill people outside. Men have cheated on their wives since ancient times. Perhaps we should say it's fine for them to do so as long as we make a Brothel for them to cheat safely.

We make murder illegal not because laws stop all action, but because what a murderer does restricts the well-being of the community/society by unjustly killing one of the members. We should make abortion illegal too. This won't stop all abortions, but it should be illegal because it restricts the well-being of the community/society by unjustly killing one of the members.

UFC :  

When men tell women that they can't abort, it's not because we have a superiority complex. My words are no different than a woman's words. If a woman were to tell you that you shouldn't abort, is that better? Are men less than women? No. We are equals. And so do not make bigoted arguments claiming that a man's words are less than a woman's. Take the words themselves, and do not consider who spoke them.

Furthermore, a fetus is neither a "hood rat" (you're no better than the racist with that slur), a racist, or a Hitler. A fetus hasn't done, nor even has the capacity to do, any sort of perverse thing that you're claiming it already is.

Finally, denying abortion isn't "[forcing] children on someone not ready to have one". They already have a child! Denying abortion is telling someone their not allowed to destroy the child they already have. The pregnancy has begun, they want to abort. The child already exists, they want it to not exist. The responsibility as a mother (and as a father!) exist the moment of conception. No do-overs allowed. We can't kill someone simply because they inconvenience us.

It might sound weird, but I'm against it. Of course, not all people can handle that they will get a child but like you said, you're taking someone his or her life away. Even thought a fetus isn't a full baby yet, everybody is different and you take an unique person his/her life away.

juuldude : I don't really think it can be considered a person yet. Yes it is alive but it's not capable of any thought, doesn't have emotions and it can't feel pain therefore it wouldn't really lose anything. The fetus is not able to want to live nor can it feel emotional or physical pain in this stage so if the woman decides she wants to have an abortion why stop her? Essentially as harsh as it might sound in the stage an abortion is allowed to be done the fetus is nothing more then a parasite. And this is something i've spoken to both a doctor and my biology teacher about.