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Creation vs Evolution
01-26-13 04:56 PM
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I believe in creation, and would like to disprove the theory of evolution. Anyone who wants to debate me or side with me is welcome. Here is what the bible says: Gen (1:1-5) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day. God continued to create new things on the earth, first he put a sphere of ice or water around the earth: (Gen 1:6) God separated the land from the water: (Gen 1:9) God created grass, plants of all kinds, and fruit bearing trees: (Gen 1:11) God said that they would produce after their kind: (Gen 1:12) Then God created the sun and the moon: (Gen 1:14) The sun and the moon both give light and serve as signs for seasons, days, and years. (Gen 1:14) Water creatures and winged creatures were created by God: (Gen 1:20) Every type of animal alongside man was created on the sixth day of creation: (Gen 1:24) This includes live stock, beasts, lizards, (dinosaurs), but not fish and birds as they were created on the fifth day. And God made humankind in His own image, (Gen 1:26-27) put him in a beautiful garden, (Gen 2:8). Thus God saw what he had made was very good. (Gen 1:31.) God made him a wife from his own rib, (Gen 2:21-22) he used the only rib in the human body that grows back! (the lower rib). The big bang happened, sending of various projectiles that became planets and galaxies. After millions of years the hot surface of the earth began to cool of. Then it rained on the rocks for millions of years. A pre-bio-organic was created, the first life forms emerged from this bio-organic soup. The life forms began to evolve, into stronger, more sophisticated creatures, first cells, then sea creatures, and eventually dinosaurs and even humans.(Macro evolution.) As I stated earlier, I believe in creationism, and have summed up both the the evolutionary and creationist story. If you wish to make a post, please don't slander the opposition or the opposite view down. And certainly don't just post: You're so dumb nobody believes that! Be sure to have respect and present an argument with your posts. Here is what the bible says: Gen (1:1-5) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day. God continued to create new things on the earth, first he put a sphere of ice or water around the earth: (Gen 1:6) God separated the land from the water: (Gen 1:9) God created grass, plants of all kinds, and fruit bearing trees: (Gen 1:11) God said that they would produce after their kind: (Gen 1:12) Then God created the sun and the moon: (Gen 1:14) The sun and the moon both give light and serve as signs for seasons, days, and years. (Gen 1:14) Water creatures and winged creatures were created by God: (Gen 1:20) Every type of animal alongside man was created on the sixth day of creation: (Gen 1:24) This includes live stock, beasts, lizards, (dinosaurs), but not fish and birds as they were created on the fifth day. And God made humankind in His own image, (Gen 1:26-27) put him in a beautiful garden, (Gen 2:8). Thus God saw what he had made was very good. (Gen 1:31.) God made him a wife from his own rib, (Gen 2:21-22) he used the only rib in the human body that grows back! (the lower rib). The big bang happened, sending of various projectiles that became planets and galaxies. After millions of years the hot surface of the earth began to cool of. Then it rained on the rocks for millions of years. A pre-bio-organic was created, the first life forms emerged from this bio-organic soup. The life forms began to evolve, into stronger, more sophisticated creatures, first cells, then sea creatures, and eventually dinosaurs and even humans.(Macro evolution.) As I stated earlier, I believe in creationism, and have summed up both the the evolutionary and creationist story. If you wish to make a post, please don't slander the opposition or the opposite view down. And certainly don't just post: You're so dumb nobody believes that! Be sure to have respect and present an argument with your posts. |
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(edited by Sword legion on 01-30-13 09:29 AM)
01-26-13 05:15 PM
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I would like to believe in both. Don't get me wrong I believe in the good Lord and all that he did, but I also feel that over time he helped to push evolution forward. I mean really-humans are animals just the same but we are smart and can utilize tools to get things done. That is how we have become all that we have become today. |
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01-26-13 05:17 PM
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I mean, I know what the bible says. But, technically God could have created single cell organisms and given them the ability to evolve, and then eventually these creatures would evolve.I don't think is has to be one or the other. |
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01-26-13 05:24 PM
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Sword legion : That is not how evolution works. At all. I would suggest you learn what evolution is before you try to refute it. Start here. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html Start here. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html |
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01-26-13 05:39 PM
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Mia03 : ender44 : God did not use evolution because in has death before sin, only after Adam sinned did things begin to die. evolution is a very cruel process of producing stronger life forms. It has life forms die and their stronger descendants live on. Do you have a Bible? would you open it to the book of genesis with me? ender44 : God did not use evolution because in has death before sin, only after Adam sinned did things begin to die. evolution is a very cruel process of producing stronger life forms. It has life forms die and their stronger descendants live on. Do you have a Bible? would you open it to the book of genesis with me? |
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01-26-13 05:42 PM
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Sword legion : Don't get me wrong, we go to church. But not as often as we should. I think I own a bible but its a child version, not an actual Bible that you can see in every pew in the church. |
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01-26-13 06:00 PM
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So I don't understand this. All you did was stating what Creationism is (or at least just quoting the Bible in order) and what you think Evolution is(which I agree with Traduweise that the descr |
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01-26-13 06:25 PM
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I agree with p.4.f.
You didnt prove creationism, you only used 1 source, and one that isnt proven. And as for the breakdown of evolution, your problem is the same as most of the people who disregard it, you dont actualy know what it is. And didnt god say that they could eat what they wanted from the garden, just not the apples? In which case the veg died, and the fruit was denied life,hence death existed. There are crueltys in the bible, life is cruel. Evolution is just a part of life. You didnt prove creationism, you only used 1 source, and one that isnt proven. And as for the breakdown of evolution, your problem is the same as most of the people who disregard it, you dont actualy know what it is. And didnt god say that they could eat what they wanted from the garden, just not the apples? In which case the veg died, and the fruit was denied life,hence death existed. There are crueltys in the bible, life is cruel. Evolution is just a part of life. |
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01-27-13 01:35 AM
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Here's what I believe (and let me preface that by saying that Einstein believed in God, although not a theistic one, but a creator and an organizing force behind the Universe). I believe that God created everything, and that Christ is my Savior. What I also believe is that the Big Bang may have been his way of Creating the Universe. The Big Bang theory does not start with absolute nothingness, it does not explain the very beginning. I also believe that the "Seven Days" in the Bible was literally seven days, and that evolution could very well have been the method through which life was brought to its potential. Essentially (and I mean no offense by this) if you don't believe in some sort of God or afterlife, or some sort of driving force behind the Universe, you basically believe there is no meaning to existence... And whether or not that is true (and I believe it is not true), that is a depressing, bitter reality to come to terms with. Even Sartre, Kierkegaard, and the fathers of atheism and existentialism in general recognized that, if we abandon the belief in God, we still have to believe in His laws, because without an eternal set of laws, man could be completely justified in doing whatever it is that he wants. Because at that point, there is nothing but man's judgment stopping him from doing whatever he pleases. No eternal consequences, no feeling of shame due to an unflinching standard... Just the thoughts and words and laws of man. I'm not saying, as many atheists like to believe, that if you don't believe in God or Jesus you're going to go around raping and killing people. What I'm saying is that if it weren't for the initial belief in God and the establishment of His laws, mankind would have no way to say, "This is right no matter what your law is, this is wrong no matter what your law is." |
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01-27-13 01:52 AM
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I think this is a great post and most certainly a thought provoking one at that!! I certainly believe in Creation because at the end of the day, even if you can go back 100s of trillions of years through space and time, I would always beg the question, "Where does 'nothing' come from?" The funny thing is, we as humans will probably never know the Truth behind where life or existence began, and even to this day there has not been a scientist or group of scientists, for that matter, to be able to replicate a single human cell, but contend they know everything after pretty much every scientific principle is proven wrong somewhere down the line... I believe in micro-evolution in the way that species have evolved through time to form to their natural habitats versus macro-evolution where monkeys can turn into humans, dinosaurs to birds, and so on... If there was a "Big Bang" I still believe it was by design from a Creator... I saw a good point brought up by one of the responses to this post about how Albert Einstein believed in a God, and also wanted to point out that even though most would use Darwin as a platform to preach against Creationism... Charles Darwin was a devout Catholic that was actually training to become a priest before doing his scientific experiments in the Galapagos Islands where he witnessed micro-evolution in the way that species adapted to their surroundings... He never used his information gathered to denounce God or the theory of Creationism... Of course, the Catholic church was pretty much the main thrust in Science throughout History, and everybody always wants to assert a division between Science and Religion, when really, we could and should have a healthy desire to learn about both... We can come up with answers to why the sky is blue and how far the Sun is from Earth, but we can't replicate any of it... And at the end of the day, even if we come up with the answers to what we think is "everything" I will always contend that is impossible, but even if there comes time when it seems possible, I will always contend, "Where does 'nothing' come from?" |
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01-27-13 02:11 AM
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ender44 : Mia03 : Why would God, who is all-powerful (omnipotent) use mistakes as a means to make the world. Mutations, which is how evolution comes about are harmful, and never helpful. I am color blind, that is a mutation, and that doesn't help me. Also why do they try to find cures for mutations if that is how evolution works? I believe that God created the world Ex-Nihilo, which means out of nothing. ender44 : Mia03 : Why would God, who is all-powerful (omnipotent) use mistakes as a means to make the world. Mutations, which is how evolution comes about are harmful, and never helpful. I am color blind, that is a mutation, and that doesn't help me. Also why do they try to find cures for mutations if that is how evolution works? I believe that God created the world Ex-Nihilo, which means out of nothing. |
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01-27-13 06:29 AM
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So you believe a modified version of scientific origin theories (since since states millions of years for it to happen). I disagree with the no meaning part. In fact,I hold the inverse true. Without puting everything down to god, we have all sorts of things to learn and discover. You can have whatever purpose you want. But with religion every answer is god and this life is pointless because its the afterlife that matters. And man has had laws before the modern religions. The romans worshiped several gods, none christian (originaly) and they wrote the book on civilisation. The pagan brits believed god and practiced human sacrifice. What you are suggesting is without laws people wouldnt know right from wrong, but men made the laws. Atheists are as moral as those of faith. I amnt stopped from killing bythe law, im stopped by the fact I feel its wrong. maw989s : Scientists could replicate human cells, its called cloning. Its generaly illegal to attempt human cloning though, so they focus on attempting to clone organs for transplants. And monkeys didnt turn into humans, you need to look up the theory of evolution. "common ancestor." Iv been reading origin of species, and background info, and it was his father that sent darwin to be a preast, he didnt like it. He clearly stated in origin of species he believed animals had come to be as they were via evolution, and that monkeys shared a common ancestor. I would argue the catholic church was the main obstacle to scientific study, the more secular nations became the faster we advanced. Lookat the dark ages. Stating the earth orbited the sun could get you executed for heresy. Just as you can go a step up above science and say and where does this come from, I can state where did god come from. Hes always been here isnt a more satisfying answer to me than those given by science. darthyoda : "harmfull... Never helpfull." False. Predators evolve there camouflage for there ever changing environment, those down the chain find neat methods of self preservation. Take the giraffe. They eat only one plant. It evolved higher off the ground, they grew longer necks. It made its leaves inedable and acidic, the girafe developed a course tongue and stronger stomach. The plant developed a scent, when attacked it disperses down wind and all trees that recieve it release toxins to make them inedible. So the giraffes eat upwind. An evolutionary arms race. Not all mutations are beneficial. In the wild you would likely die as you couldnt easily spot predators, so your mutation would be lost. If theres a famine those that can endure the longest will replenish the numbers, and there traits passed on. Plenty of mutations occur, not all are passed on. People dont "cure" animal mutations, they breed them out, because thats what determines evolution, the 2 parents. 2 tall humans, typically tall child. Not all identically tall, some may be shorter. So giraffes. I breed the shortest ones I can find, il need a good few pairs, because incest can destroy genes. Maybe around 20 initial pairs. It will take a long time too. Shorter lifespan animals are easier. I take all the children, and breed the ones with shorter necks. While they grow the parents can have more or il lose half my number every generation. Level 2 giraffes, select shortest again, and level 3 starts. You keep going and you get a giraffe with shorter necks. That would be a fairely pointles affair because they couldnt survive in the wild, but the principal can be used for beneficial purposes. So you believe a modified version of scientific origin theories (since since states millions of years for it to happen). I disagree with the no meaning part. In fact,I hold the inverse true. Without puting everything down to god, we have all sorts of things to learn and discover. You can have whatever purpose you want. But with religion every answer is god and this life is pointless because its the afterlife that matters. And man has had laws before the modern religions. The romans worshiped several gods, none christian (originaly) and they wrote the book on civilisation. The pagan brits believed god and practiced human sacrifice. What you are suggesting is without laws people wouldnt know right from wrong, but men made the laws. Atheists are as moral as those of faith. I amnt stopped from killing bythe law, im stopped by the fact I feel its wrong. maw989s : Scientists could replicate human cells, its called cloning. Its generaly illegal to attempt human cloning though, so they focus on attempting to clone organs for transplants. And monkeys didnt turn into humans, you need to look up the theory of evolution. "common ancestor." Iv been reading origin of species, and background info, and it was his father that sent darwin to be a preast, he didnt like it. He clearly stated in origin of species he believed animals had come to be as they were via evolution, and that monkeys shared a common ancestor. I would argue the catholic church was the main obstacle to scientific study, the more secular nations became the faster we advanced. Lookat the dark ages. Stating the earth orbited the sun could get you executed for heresy. Just as you can go a step up above science and say and where does this come from, I can state where did god come from. Hes always been here isnt a more satisfying answer to me than those given by science. darthyoda : "harmfull... Never helpfull." False. Predators evolve there camouflage for there ever changing environment, those down the chain find neat methods of self preservation. Take the giraffe. They eat only one plant. It evolved higher off the ground, they grew longer necks. It made its leaves inedable and acidic, the girafe developed a course tongue and stronger stomach. The plant developed a scent, when attacked it disperses down wind and all trees that recieve it release toxins to make them inedible. So the giraffes eat upwind. An evolutionary arms race. Not all mutations are beneficial. In the wild you would likely die as you couldnt easily spot predators, so your mutation would be lost. If theres a famine those that can endure the longest will replenish the numbers, and there traits passed on. Plenty of mutations occur, not all are passed on. People dont "cure" animal mutations, they breed them out, because thats what determines evolution, the 2 parents. 2 tall humans, typically tall child. Not all identically tall, some may be shorter. So giraffes. I breed the shortest ones I can find, il need a good few pairs, because incest can destroy genes. Maybe around 20 initial pairs. It will take a long time too. Shorter lifespan animals are easier. I take all the children, and breed the ones with shorter necks. While they grow the parents can have more or il lose half my number every generation. Level 2 giraffes, select shortest again, and level 3 starts. You keep going and you get a giraffe with shorter necks. That would be a fairely pointles affair because they couldnt survive in the wild, but the principal can be used for beneficial purposes. |
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01-27-13 07:43 AM
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Not just to be disagreeable, but if evolution makes things better, why aren't there any helpful mutations? Colorblindness (back to my example) is nothing but a hindrance. If two colors look the same to me, and not to you, then it made something worse, not better. If there were any helpful mutations, still happening, it would makes sense to me... I believe that the giraffe was made by God in that way, for their eating habits. God made everything just the way he wanted it. We chose to either accept, or reject that. I also would have to say that neither of them are a science, because neither of them can be recreated in a laboratory. Which means that they are both just personal beliefs. Not just to be disagreeable, but if evolution makes things better, why aren't there any helpful mutations? Colorblindness (back to my example) is nothing but a hindrance. If two colors look the same to me, and not to you, then it made something worse, not better. If there were any helpful mutations, still happening, it would makes sense to me... I believe that the giraffe was made by God in that way, for their eating habits. God made everything just the way he wanted it. We chose to either accept, or reject that. I also would have to say that neither of them are a science, because neither of them can be recreated in a laboratory. Which means that they are both just personal beliefs. |
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01-27-13 07:55 AM
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darthyoda :
There are... I gave you an example, giraffes growing long necks. Bad mutations occur and often they dont make it into the wider species. Theres mild deviation in every child, its the merger of 2 dna sets after all. Much of science is theory. Its based on scientific knowledge however, hence an arm of science. Look at dogs. They were once wolfs. We selectively bred them. Why do you think god made you colour blind if you dont think its evolution? There are... I gave you an example, giraffes growing long necks. Bad mutations occur and often they dont make it into the wider species. Theres mild deviation in every child, its the merger of 2 dna sets after all. Much of science is theory. Its based on scientific knowledge however, hence an arm of science. Look at dogs. They were once wolfs. We selectively bred them. Why do you think god made you colour blind if you dont think its evolution? |
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01-29-13 10:48 AM
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If you wish to disprove evolution can you at least prove creationism? I think you cant, an old book isn't evidence. If I went by ancient texts there are headless people somewhere in Africa with faces in there stomachs. Also by that reasoning every other mythology carved on a stone or chiseled in a monument is irrefutable evidence. When you put your head to the ground and hear hoof beats think horses not zebras. |
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01-29-13 06:34 PM
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Evolution has been proven to be the correct way that things change.
We're losing our wisdom teeth right now, and we're slowly evolving out of the need for wisdom teeth. We're not instantly just having children without wisdom teeth, we're slowly growing out of it, and that's evolution. Not trying to offend but, in the form that the bible says that people evolved after THIS happened, keep in mind that they keep revising it after they've been proven incorrect. "The fun thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson We're losing our wisdom teeth right now, and we're slowly evolving out of the need for wisdom teeth. We're not instantly just having children without wisdom teeth, we're slowly growing out of it, and that's evolution. Not trying to offend but, in the form that the bible says that people evolved after THIS happened, keep in mind that they keep revising it after they've been proven incorrect. "The fun thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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01-29-13 07:34 PM
play4fun is Offline
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alexanyways : Evolution is not a proven theory, it is a supported theory that is accepted as the best model of describing change. It is supported based on the observations and evidences that scientists gathered and develop a model that can best explain these evidences to describe our world. That being said, we need to stop having this idea saying that, "oh, most scientists have agreed with the model, it is well supported with little to no flaws in it. It must be ULTIMATELY correct." To say that something is proven is to say that something is correct through logical arguments and that it won't be refuted or improved upon, which is not true to say for the Creation/Evolution debate. That's the beauty of science, it's a system that continues to improve upon itself.
To add to that, the problem that I have with that quote is that science is a method of finding physical truths. Truth is true whether one believes it or not, that I would agree. But if one were to do science in the wrong way, or using the right method to look in the wrong direction, then you won't end up in physical truth. Before the scientific community accepted the Big Bang Theory, there was also the Steady State Theory. It's not as well received anymore because the model had problems within it and they found that BBT was the better model of describing the universe. We can say the same that we have a better astronomical model than before (Heliocentric), a better atomic model than before (Atomic orbitals) and a better elementary particles model than before (Standard Model). Science has to go through a lot of "wrongs" in order to get closer and closer to the "rights". P.S.: You probably know what I'm gonna add here: The Bible's content was never revised because of things in the Bible proven incorrect, but because the English language(grammar, usage, definitions) continues to change (from Old English to Modern English to ??? English) as well as the continuing improvement of our understanding of Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew. To add to that, the problem that I have with that quote is that science is a method of finding physical truths. Truth is true whether one believes it or not, that I would agree. But if one were to do science in the wrong way, or using the right method to look in the wrong direction, then you won't end up in physical truth. Before the scientific community accepted the Big Bang Theory, there was also the Steady State Theory. It's not as well received anymore because the model had problems within it and they found that BBT was the better model of describing the universe. We can say the same that we have a better astronomical model than before (Heliocentric), a better atomic model than before (Atomic orbitals) and a better elementary particles model than before (Standard Model). Science has to go through a lot of "wrongs" in order to get closer and closer to the "rights". P.S.: You probably know what I'm gonna add here: The Bible's content was never revised because of things in the Bible proven incorrect, but because the English language(grammar, usage, definitions) continues to change (from Old English to Modern English to ??? English) as well as the continuing improvement of our understanding of Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew. |
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01-29-13 07:37 PM
austipokedude is Offline
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I choose creation I'm a Christian a believer in god what did you expect it makes sense to evolution is just weird I mean from dirt that is ridiculous and kinda insulting at the same time. |
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01-29-13 09:27 PM
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austipokedude: I don't think you read it correctly. According to the Protoplanet theory, after the big bang, tons of particles of dust floated around in space. Since everything in space has its own gravity (the bigger it is, the more gravitational pull), the particles of dust started to stick together. Since some were bigger then others, they slowly grew bigger and bigger, growing faster and faster as they got larger. Then, the bigger clumps stuck together, causing even larger objects to form. Eventually these became big enough to be the planets that we have today. After earth was capable of supporting life, small single-celled organisms slowly became more complex over time, growing larger and larger. Both theories have a lot of facts to support them, and while I believe evolution, I don't think creationism is entirely impossible, just unlikely. At least that is my opinion. Edit: Fixed a few typos. Edit: Fixed a few typos. |
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(edited by metroidhunter72 on 01-30-13 11:44 PM)
01-29-13 09:48 PM
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austipokedude : care to elaborate? |
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