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Davideo7
01-17-13 12:30 PM
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New Trust Point System

 

01-23-13 05:37 PM
Davideo7 is Offline
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MegaRevolution1 : If you accidentally rated the same person with 2 twice it would do that, even if you simply just refreshed the submission page, it would do that. Is it possible that's the case?

Singelli : If you gave someone 2 and than later gave them a 3, that's a total of 5.
 
MegaRevolution1 : If you accidentally rated the same person with 2 twice it would do that, even if you simply just refreshed the submission page, it would do that. Is it possible that's the case?

Singelli : If you gave someone 2 and than later gave them a 3, that's a total of 5.

 
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01-23-13 05:40 PM
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Davideo7 :
No, no.  LOL

I gave you and let's say "John" 2 TP last week.  When you reset the TP today, I went back to your page, and I rated you with 3 TP.  Same thing with "John".  

The site says I've dealt out 6 TP, but I've only given out 2 extra TP.
Davideo7 :
No, no.  LOL

I gave you and let's say "John" 2 TP last week.  When you reset the TP today, I went back to your page, and I rated you with 3 TP.  Same thing with "John".  

The site says I've dealt out 6 TP, but I've only given out 2 extra TP.

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01-23-13 05:44 PM
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Singelli : No that does make sense. You gave out a total of 6 today. Even if you previously gave both of us a 2, since you're now giving us a 3 each, you're being charged 3 instead of 1. That's just the way the system is going to work.
 
Singelli : No that does make sense. You gave out a total of 6 today. Even if you previously gave both of us a 2, since you're now giving us a 3 each, you're being charged 3 instead of 1. That's just the way the system is going to work.

 
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01-23-13 05:46 PM
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Davideo7 : Ahhh, so it's intentional!  Actually, I think that's a great thing.  Good to know it's not a bug! Thanks for the prompt reply.  
Davideo7 : Ahhh, so it's intentional!  Actually, I think that's a great thing.  Good to know it's not a bug! Thanks for the prompt reply.  

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01-23-13 05:47 PM
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Singelli : Yeah it's a way to prevent possible abuse and to also make people more careful about the points they award.
 
Singelli : Yeah it's a way to prevent possible abuse and to also make people more careful about the points they award.

 
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01-23-13 05:56 PM
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Actually, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what happened. It was taking forever to load the page, so I just presumed it dead and refreshed. Oh well, guess I'll be more careful next week then, Nya~.
Actually, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what happened. It was taking forever to load the page, so I just presumed it dead and refreshed. Oh well, guess I'll be more careful next week then, Nya~.

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01-23-13 05:57 PM
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MegaRevolution1 : Yeah, sorry about that. Hopefully I can get this server strain crap taken care of sooner rather than later
 
MegaRevolution1 : Yeah, sorry about that. Hopefully I can get this server strain crap taken care of sooner rather than later

 
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01-23-13 09:45 PM
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Well I know this question is late but did newbie turning into a member change for example instead of ten post  you now got to get fifteen or something like that or did it stay the same.
Austi
Well I know this question is late but did newbie turning into a member change for example instead of ten post  you now got to get fifteen or something like that or did it stay the same.

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01-23-13 10:11 PM
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Disclaimer-  I am purely posting this to give feedback on my views of the new system, and the trusted system as a whole in general.  This is not an attempt, however, to say anything involving shunning any moderators, bashing the 99% of the user base that are either members or newbies, or in any way attempt to mark this site as a horrible site (which, as most of us know, is a false statement).  However, this post may come off as mean to some members of the userbase, and there will probably be a few of you offended.  I ask of you this:  If you are to feel like I crossed a line somewhere and want to address it with me, please do it in the form of a private message, so we do not carry conflict in to the general population of the board.  I am aware that this ststem is an attempt to keep trust point abuse fron happening, but that still does not change my views on this matter.  /Disclaimer.  Begin potentially contravertial post.
The trusted system has, as a whole, become almost obsolete within the board's veterans since about the time that I joined the site.  I was able to see first hand how the trusted system was abused by getting the first 4/10 points I received legitimately, the other six being for as follows:  2 random gifts and 1 correct quiz answer.  At that time, I did not feel that the abuse was bad, because I was new to the forum an didn't seem to care how I got trusted.  I just wanted to feel welcomed to the site.
As I began my career as a site staff member though, I began to realize that the system was a little annoying, with users that I didn't like becoming trusted.  At that point in time, though, I knew that people didn't like who I liked, and liked who I didn't like.  As I went through my career as a staff member, I began to become more and more irked at the trusted system, but kept my mouth shut since I was just a staff member.
And then, I became a moderator on this site.  Moderating a site like this was a dream job for me, and I figured it would make me love the board even more, and believe that I could stay around for as long as I wanted.  However, this was only half true.  The part that irks me most about this job (besides constant summons of people telling me what to do in my forums) is the amount of trust point abuse that went on during the old trust point system, and the NEW trust point system as well.
At this point, you may be wondering how abuse could possibly be happening with the new system.  The fact of the matter is, becoming trusted was not made harder than it used to be, which was one of the things that was attempted to be addressed in this new system.  However, there are users who are now becoming trusted like CRAZY because of one simple thing that was absolutely GREAT on the drawin board:  The ability for only staff + to take trust points.
Now, most of you should be thinking- how is only staff + being able to take tp away a bad thing?  That prevents the new trusteds from becoming untrusted, right?  And my answer to the second question is:  YES, new trusteds are now hard to make untrusted.  I believe it to be virtually impossible to be able to take away trust points from users to demote them tote normal rank.  But, the problem of abuse doesn't lie within the taking of tp at all in my opinion.  It lies within the excess of users who abuse their TP privlidges to GIVE people trusted.  I'm going to say something unpopular among most users, but I know I am not the only person thinking this:  THERE ARE SOME TRUSTEDS THAT DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TRUSTED.  How is this so?  Under this new system, it is supposed to be harder to gain trusted status, as well as lose it, correct?  That is why THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH HOW THE OWNER TRIED TO FIX THIS PROBLEM.  He did it in the most logical way he could have, in my opinion, and this is in no way his fault (note how I say this even though I disagree with only staff + being able to take trust points).  The real problem lies within us.  Not just the trusted members, not just the site staff, but the user base as a whole (this answers the above set of parentheses, in case you can not make sense of why I said all of that).  As a result of this abuse by us, also known as the userbase, regulation is, once again in my opinion, required to make the trusted system work.
Now, how can regulation be created?  The way I see it, at least elites should be able to take away trust points.  In my opinion, it is either put in that regulation (or perhaps expand upon that as well), or obliterate the system entirely and start some other role above member but under elite all over again.
I am going to end this post with a quote you may feel is related or unrelated to the topic.
"Two thing are infinite:  the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about th'universe!"  (Credited to Albert Einstein, quote may or may not have been said by him.
tl;dr:  The new trusted system is great in theory, ba in userbase execution.
/Potentially contravertial post.  If anything must be clarified, please let me know.  I am typing this on my iPod, so errors may have been made commonly throughout this post.
Disclaimer-  I am purely posting this to give feedback on my views of the new system, and the trusted system as a whole in general.  This is not an attempt, however, to say anything involving shunning any moderators, bashing the 99% of the user base that are either members or newbies, or in any way attempt to mark this site as a horrible site (which, as most of us know, is a false statement).  However, this post may come off as mean to some members of the userbase, and there will probably be a few of you offended.  I ask of you this:  If you are to feel like I crossed a line somewhere and want to address it with me, please do it in the form of a private message, so we do not carry conflict in to the general population of the board.  I am aware that this ststem is an attempt to keep trust point abuse fron happening, but that still does not change my views on this matter.  /Disclaimer.  Begin potentially contravertial post.
The trusted system has, as a whole, become almost obsolete within the board's veterans since about the time that I joined the site.  I was able to see first hand how the trusted system was abused by getting the first 4/10 points I received legitimately, the other six being for as follows:  2 random gifts and 1 correct quiz answer.  At that time, I did not feel that the abuse was bad, because I was new to the forum an didn't seem to care how I got trusted.  I just wanted to feel welcomed to the site.
As I began my career as a site staff member though, I began to realize that the system was a little annoying, with users that I didn't like becoming trusted.  At that point in time, though, I knew that people didn't like who I liked, and liked who I didn't like.  As I went through my career as a staff member, I began to become more and more irked at the trusted system, but kept my mouth shut since I was just a staff member.
And then, I became a moderator on this site.  Moderating a site like this was a dream job for me, and I figured it would make me love the board even more, and believe that I could stay around for as long as I wanted.  However, this was only half true.  The part that irks me most about this job (besides constant summons of people telling me what to do in my forums) is the amount of trust point abuse that went on during the old trust point system, and the NEW trust point system as well.
At this point, you may be wondering how abuse could possibly be happening with the new system.  The fact of the matter is, becoming trusted was not made harder than it used to be, which was one of the things that was attempted to be addressed in this new system.  However, there are users who are now becoming trusted like CRAZY because of one simple thing that was absolutely GREAT on the drawin board:  The ability for only staff + to take trust points.
Now, most of you should be thinking- how is only staff + being able to take tp away a bad thing?  That prevents the new trusteds from becoming untrusted, right?  And my answer to the second question is:  YES, new trusteds are now hard to make untrusted.  I believe it to be virtually impossible to be able to take away trust points from users to demote them tote normal rank.  But, the problem of abuse doesn't lie within the taking of tp at all in my opinion.  It lies within the excess of users who abuse their TP privlidges to GIVE people trusted.  I'm going to say something unpopular among most users, but I know I am not the only person thinking this:  THERE ARE SOME TRUSTEDS THAT DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TRUSTED.  How is this so?  Under this new system, it is supposed to be harder to gain trusted status, as well as lose it, correct?  That is why THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH HOW THE OWNER TRIED TO FIX THIS PROBLEM.  He did it in the most logical way he could have, in my opinion, and this is in no way his fault (note how I say this even though I disagree with only staff + being able to take trust points).  The real problem lies within us.  Not just the trusted members, not just the site staff, but the user base as a whole (this answers the above set of parentheses, in case you can not make sense of why I said all of that).  As a result of this abuse by us, also known as the userbase, regulation is, once again in my opinion, required to make the trusted system work.
Now, how can regulation be created?  The way I see it, at least elites should be able to take away trust points.  In my opinion, it is either put in that regulation (or perhaps expand upon that as well), or obliterate the system entirely and start some other role above member but under elite all over again.
I am going to end this post with a quote you may feel is related or unrelated to the topic.
"Two thing are infinite:  the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about th'universe!"  (Credited to Albert Einstein, quote may or may not have been said by him.
tl;dr:  The new trusted system is great in theory, ba in userbase execution.
/Potentially contravertial post.  If anything must be clarified, please let me know.  I am typing this on my iPod, so errors may have been made commonly throughout this post.


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01-23-13 10:17 PM
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Davideo7 : Don't worry. This should be the last time I'm gonna ask a question here.  So you said that if you rated somebody 1, and later rate them 2, it takes up two points. So that made me think, what if somebody is starting to spam that you gave TP to? Can you rate them back to zero without taking up points? Or would you have to wait. Because it seems like there could be some problems with that, if you can't down rate them when they are spamming.
Davideo7 : Don't worry. This should be the last time I'm gonna ask a question here.  So you said that if you rated somebody 1, and later rate them 2, it takes up two points. So that made me think, what if somebody is starting to spam that you gave TP to? Can you rate them back to zero without taking up points? Or would you have to wait. Because it seems like there could be some problems with that, if you can't down rate them when they are spamming.

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01-24-13 03:00 AM
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GIVE ME TRUST POINT OR I KILL THE BABIES, PAL
GIVE ME TRUST POINT OR I KILL THE BABIES, PAL

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01-24-13 04:45 AM
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Since you don't trust anyone below staff, then we do not trust you.

Sincerely,
Ex-Staff Member
Since you don't trust anyone below staff, then we do not trust you.

Sincerely,
Ex-Staff Member

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01-24-13 11:01 AM
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patar4097 : Yeah, Why did you have to make Site Staff Do the honors? Patar, You have made a good question!
SUMMONED THE WRONG PERSON. BUT SUMMONED ASKER OF QUESTION.

Davideo7 : What is all the 'Site staff" buissness? If we can't vote people down, It's just a lot more... Risk, let's say that.
Mario Layout
patar4097 : Yeah, Why did you have to make Site Staff Do the honors? Patar, You have made a good question!
SUMMONED THE WRONG PERSON. BUT SUMMONED ASKER OF QUESTION.

Davideo7 : What is all the 'Site staff" buissness? If we can't vote people down, It's just a lot more... Risk, let's say that.

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01-25-13 04:15 PM
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patar4097 :
GameBoy1023 :   You two have shown me that only elite + could probably handle the taking of TP (you and a plethora of other trusteds/normal members). 
I said at least elites, because EXCEPT IN A FEW CASES, they are actually deserving of the title.  They can be more mature than the trusteds any day.
patar4097 :
GameBoy1023 :   You two have shown me that only elite + could probably handle the taking of TP (you and a plethora of other trusteds/normal members). 
I said at least elites, because EXCEPT IN A FEW CASES, they are actually deserving of the title.  They can be more mature than the trusteds any day.

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01-25-13 11:51 PM
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mlb789 : That didn't really make sense. I was asking if you could rate somebody zero, if you already given them TP, but you want to take it away, can you do that before the week is up? I don't see what down rating somebody has to do with anything I said.
mlb789 : That didn't really make sense. I was asking if you could rate somebody zero, if you already given them TP, but you want to take it away, can you do that before the week is up? I don't see what down rating somebody has to do with anything I said.

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01-26-13 07:56 AM
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patar4097 :  ah, apologies, the end of your post made me think you we're responding.  I think it is possible.  If you rated someone plus 2, I think you could rate with plus zero without consequence since you are putting then at 0.
patar4097 :  ah, apologies, the end of your post made me think you we're responding.  I think it is possible.  If you rated someone plus 2, I think you could rate with plus zero without consequence since you are putting then at 0.

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01-26-13 09:16 AM
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This might have ben expressed before, but I did think of a way the system could possibly be abused.  I would think staff members would be above this, but just in case....

Also, you may already have thought of this and put preventative measures in place.

Basically, a staff member can rate someone to 0 or above, and then rate them negatively so that other people experience the 'backsplash'. They could do this repetitively, so that backsplash gets applied repetitively.

In case I'm not clear:
Megan doesn't like Susie, so Megan decides to punish everyone who gives Susie a trust point.
She rates Susie down, then later rates Susie back up to 0 trust points.
She waits a few days and rates Susie negatively again, so that anyone else who gave Susie trust points gets penalized again.
Megan repeats until Megan feels satisfied.
This might have ben expressed before, but I did think of a way the system could possibly be abused.  I would think staff members would be above this, but just in case....

Also, you may already have thought of this and put preventative measures in place.

Basically, a staff member can rate someone to 0 or above, and then rate them negatively so that other people experience the 'backsplash'. They could do this repetitively, so that backsplash gets applied repetitively.

In case I'm not clear:
Megan doesn't like Susie, so Megan decides to punish everyone who gives Susie a trust point.
She rates Susie down, then later rates Susie back up to 0 trust points.
She waits a few days and rates Susie negatively again, so that anyone else who gave Susie trust points gets penalized again.
Megan repeats until Megan feels satisfied.


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01-26-13 11:52 AM
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mlb789 :

Love your post.

Mostly the part where you said trusted is easier to get

I've been saying this since David brought it up. No one listened.

Maybe now is different.
mlb789 :

Love your post.

Mostly the part where you said trusted is easier to get

I've been saying this since David brought it up. No one listened.

Maybe now is different.

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01-26-13 12:40 PM
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I think Singelli has a point, really. I think a good way to fix this is by at least having Site Staff + send a PM explaining why they downvoted said user, kind of like when a report or ban is being handed out (both are negative things, so it'd be reasonable to compare them that way).

Also, I know it's just a coincidence over similarity and nothing more, but I laughed at the "Megan" name choice, Nya~. :3
I think Singelli has a point, really. I think a good way to fix this is by at least having Site Staff + send a PM explaining why they downvoted said user, kind of like when a report or ban is being handed out (both are negative things, so it'd be reasonable to compare them that way).

Also, I know it's just a coincidence over similarity and nothing more, but I laughed at the "Megan" name choice, Nya~. :3

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01-26-13 03:56 PM
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Yeah... I would like to know when I am down rated. Only staff can down rate as of right now... And staff have to PM you when you get in trouble... so why can't you have the staff message you why they down rated you. To me, it's the same concept as getting banned or in getting in trouble or a warning.

MegaRevolution1 :  
Singelli :  

great idea...
Yeah... I would like to know when I am down rated. Only staff can down rate as of right now... And staff have to PM you when you get in trouble... so why can't you have the staff message you why they down rated you. To me, it's the same concept as getting banned or in getting in trouble or a warning.

MegaRevolution1 :  
Singelli :  

great idea...


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