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How would I accept him, without concrete evidence?

 

03-24-12 05:09 AM
legacyme3 is Offline
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I'm not trying to cause a war here, and I'm being entirely serious.

I've never been one to believe in blind faith. I am an atheist as many know. Once I lose faith in something, I don't just believe in it again.

How can one believe, without concrete proof one exists?

It's not as simple as not seeing, as I can't see the air but know it exists via scientific property.

Whereas I cannot prove he is in existance via any conventional method known to man.

I want to believe, because apparently God is really good for people who need guidance. Boy do I need it.

But I can't believe in something if I can't tell it exists.

So let's begin. Any thoughts?
I'm not trying to cause a war here, and I'm being entirely serious.

I've never been one to believe in blind faith. I am an atheist as many know. Once I lose faith in something, I don't just believe in it again.

How can one believe, without concrete proof one exists?

It's not as simple as not seeing, as I can't see the air but know it exists via scientific property.

Whereas I cannot prove he is in existance via any conventional method known to man.

I want to believe, because apparently God is really good for people who need guidance. Boy do I need it.

But I can't believe in something if I can't tell it exists.

So let's begin. Any thoughts?
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03-24-12 05:37 AM
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You can always beleive in yourself for one.
You can always beleive in yourself for one.
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03-24-12 05:47 AM
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It's easily to believe without proof, people do it in voting booth all the time.

Just tell yourself he exists. It's all psychology and telling your mind differently. That is how you defeat a lot of things in life.

People believe Oswald killed JFK, people believed Osama killed americans, did they need proof? No, they just took someones word for it
It's easily to believe without proof, people do it in voting booth all the time.

Just tell yourself he exists. It's all psychology and telling your mind differently. That is how you defeat a lot of things in life.

People believe Oswald killed JFK, people believed Osama killed americans, did they need proof? No, they just took someones word for it
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along a similar vein as what Jigsaw was saying....

what would be good enough proof for you? Like he said people believe all sorts of things all the time without concrete evidence so why is religion all that much different?

There is also the idea of trying it out. Pick a religion and follow the precepts of it and see what you get. Religion isn't just about believing in a higher power but also about changing who you are as a person. Obviously you would have to pick a religion with beliefs and precepts that you feel you can follow comfortably but it is an idea
along a similar vein as what Jigsaw was saying....

what would be good enough proof for you? Like he said people believe all sorts of things all the time without concrete evidence so why is religion all that much different?

There is also the idea of trying it out. Pick a religion and follow the precepts of it and see what you get. Religion isn't just about believing in a higher power but also about changing who you are as a person. Obviously you would have to pick a religion with beliefs and precepts that you feel you can follow comfortably but it is an idea
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03-24-12 09:04 AM
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legacyme3 :
I agree with you: I do not believe in blind faith. I used to be "a believer", but am no longer. I want to be... it is just that I have become a person that believes in reality, not fantasy. I would also like to know if there is any concrete evidence that help me become a believer again. Anything from anyone will be accepted. Thanks.

legacyme3 :
I agree with you: I do not believe in blind faith. I used to be "a believer", but am no longer. I want to be... it is just that I have become a person that believes in reality, not fantasy. I would also like to know if there is any concrete evidence that help me become a believer again. Anything from anyone will be accepted. Thanks.
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03-24-12 09:35 AM
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thing1 :

The thing about religion is that, yes, it does take a lot of faith. If there really was concrete evidence that God existed, then everyone would be Christian and everyone would just take God for granted.

There isn't much in terms of "direct" evidence. No one's ever taken a picture with God or anything. However, as with everything that one cannot observe directly, there are many indirect ways of knowing He's there. There is historical, scientific, psychological evidence that He exists, as well as the many testimonies that you can get from believers whose lives have changed as a whole in their walk with God.

Our faith isn't "blind", contrary to what most people would say. All the evidence we need is in the Bible. Even if that's not enough, there's all the different ways I've listed, too. But sometimes, it's just hard to see if you've never experienced God yourself.

The first step is the hardest, that I understand. If you've never believed in God, why start now?

I say it's better to get started late than never. God is willing to take anyone and forgive them at any time, whether young or old, no matter what they've done in the past. Like in the parable of the Prodigal Son, He will take you back with open arms and a huge feast.

And lastly, if you or anyone decides to become a Christian, the wonderful thing is that you never have to walk this path alone. There are always people that you can find to help you on your journey. It might be a bit different here at Vizzed, but there's at least me and probably a few others that hang out around the Christian Conservative forum that can back you up, should you choose to do so.

Anyways, I'm not trying to convert you all at once with this post. It's just to show that Christianity isn't meant to be a totally blind, walk-in-the-darkness kind of faith.
thing1 :

The thing about religion is that, yes, it does take a lot of faith. If there really was concrete evidence that God existed, then everyone would be Christian and everyone would just take God for granted.

There isn't much in terms of "direct" evidence. No one's ever taken a picture with God or anything. However, as with everything that one cannot observe directly, there are many indirect ways of knowing He's there. There is historical, scientific, psychological evidence that He exists, as well as the many testimonies that you can get from believers whose lives have changed as a whole in their walk with God.

Our faith isn't "blind", contrary to what most people would say. All the evidence we need is in the Bible. Even if that's not enough, there's all the different ways I've listed, too. But sometimes, it's just hard to see if you've never experienced God yourself.

The first step is the hardest, that I understand. If you've never believed in God, why start now?

I say it's better to get started late than never. God is willing to take anyone and forgive them at any time, whether young or old, no matter what they've done in the past. Like in the parable of the Prodigal Son, He will take you back with open arms and a huge feast.

And lastly, if you or anyone decides to become a Christian, the wonderful thing is that you never have to walk this path alone. There are always people that you can find to help you on your journey. It might be a bit different here at Vizzed, but there's at least me and probably a few others that hang out around the Christian Conservative forum that can back you up, should you choose to do so.

Anyways, I'm not trying to convert you all at once with this post. It's just to show that Christianity isn't meant to be a totally blind, walk-in-the-darkness kind of faith.
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Some people say "God" helps them with life like physically with some magically power. However I don't really believe in that. Imagine if god was fake and non-existent, people who believe in that imaginary entity would also have the same belief as far as their life is concerned which is why some might seem more successful then others. People who don't believe in god will probably be more likely to not believe non-existent things and go down darker roads because of their belief in what they can and cant accomplish.

You dont need religion to be successful or happy in life you just need to know how to control your brains thinking patterns.

If I pray for a xbox, I will feel instantly gratified knowing I'm talking to god and since he is never wrong I will most likely get it (not from him personally) but because my mind wants it bad enough. If I think negative and pray, nothing will happen cause my negative thoughts tell me I dont want it bad enough.

God (if he exists) gave you a brain, I say use it with some imagination even if its totally bizarre
Some people say "God" helps them with life like physically with some magically power. However I don't really believe in that. Imagine if god was fake and non-existent, people who believe in that imaginary entity would also have the same belief as far as their life is concerned which is why some might seem more successful then others. People who don't believe in god will probably be more likely to not believe non-existent things and go down darker roads because of their belief in what they can and cant accomplish.

You dont need religion to be successful or happy in life you just need to know how to control your brains thinking patterns.

If I pray for a xbox, I will feel instantly gratified knowing I'm talking to god and since he is never wrong I will most likely get it (not from him personally) but because my mind wants it bad enough. If I think negative and pray, nothing will happen cause my negative thoughts tell me I dont want it bad enough.

God (if he exists) gave you a brain, I say use it with some imagination even if its totally bizarre
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03-24-12 10:22 AM
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Someone70 definitely has the ball rolling.

The Bible is our evidence, but much of what we see today adds to it. Famines and earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars, nation rises against nation, they were all told of by Jesus in Matthew chapter 24. And this is just some of the physical evidence.

More importantly, the law that God gave proves that we all are sinners. The Ten Commandments is it. While it may seem rather obvious at first, Jesus' teachings, particularly the sermon on the Mount, clarified that it is not the actions that prove anything, but that God sees right to the heart. The sixth commandment is "You shall not kill;" Jesus said that anyone who is angry with his brother or sister will be subject to judgement. I am guilty. The seventh commandment say "You shall not commit adultery;" Jesus said that anyone who looks upon a woman lustfully has committed adultery with her in his heart. I am guilty. I have stolen, I have dishonored my parents, I have lied. The Law has fulfilled its duty of proving me guilty, and the more I learn from the Bible the more I am proven to be guilty.

What separates Christianity from religion is that it is not about following a set of rules. We are not forced to do anything. Rather, because we have conviction we strive to follow The Law out of our own decision.

Even though my parents are Christians and dragged me to church for most of my childhood, they never forced me to believe anything. It wasn't until I was 15 that I started going to church out of my own conviction. I will say I have doubted at times the possibility of God's existence, but I still believe. Everything I have seen, heard, and done points to the Bible as truth. It never was a single moment in time where I went from unbelieving to believing, but believing in God was always my own choice.
Someone70 definitely has the ball rolling.

The Bible is our evidence, but much of what we see today adds to it. Famines and earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars, nation rises against nation, they were all told of by Jesus in Matthew chapter 24. And this is just some of the physical evidence.

More importantly, the law that God gave proves that we all are sinners. The Ten Commandments is it. While it may seem rather obvious at first, Jesus' teachings, particularly the sermon on the Mount, clarified that it is not the actions that prove anything, but that God sees right to the heart. The sixth commandment is "You shall not kill;" Jesus said that anyone who is angry with his brother or sister will be subject to judgement. I am guilty. The seventh commandment say "You shall not commit adultery;" Jesus said that anyone who looks upon a woman lustfully has committed adultery with her in his heart. I am guilty. I have stolen, I have dishonored my parents, I have lied. The Law has fulfilled its duty of proving me guilty, and the more I learn from the Bible the more I am proven to be guilty.

What separates Christianity from religion is that it is not about following a set of rules. We are not forced to do anything. Rather, because we have conviction we strive to follow The Law out of our own decision.

Even though my parents are Christians and dragged me to church for most of my childhood, they never forced me to believe anything. It wasn't until I was 15 that I started going to church out of my own conviction. I will say I have doubted at times the possibility of God's existence, but I still believe. Everything I have seen, heard, and done points to the Bible as truth. It never was a single moment in time where I went from unbelieving to believing, but believing in God was always my own choice.
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03-25-12 04:19 AM
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The basic and only reason no one has seen God (and therefore providing the concrete evidence) is because of his nature.

When Moses asked to see God’s glory, God told him, "I will make all my goodness pass before you,...but you cannot see my face: for no one may see me and live" (Exodus 33:18–23). In other words, if God’s "goodness" were shown to us, we would instantly die. There's no doubt in my mind that if God were to peak through the heavens on us and say "hey, how are you doing? I'm God," we would faint. God’s "goodness" would just spill wrath upon evil man. However, he told Moses, "It shall come to pass, while my glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with my hand while I pass by." The only way we can live in the presence of a holy God is to be hidden in the Rock of Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4). This scripture in Exodus was alluding to the prophecy of Christ.

I think if anyone is looking for a sign from God then they've already been given one and missed it; you have the testimony of creation and the Christian, if you deny both those, you have the testimony of your conscience. If your conscience fails you, I can only suggest that you read the Gospel in the Bible. There is really no other way to find out unless you believe that you need saving and find out what that means - reading the Bible isn't something that is accomplished on your own, God has taught me because I've surrendered my live to Christ and ask him to teach me what he wants me to know from reading his Bible.
The basic and only reason no one has seen God (and therefore providing the concrete evidence) is because of his nature.

When Moses asked to see God’s glory, God told him, "I will make all my goodness pass before you,...but you cannot see my face: for no one may see me and live" (Exodus 33:18–23). In other words, if God’s "goodness" were shown to us, we would instantly die. There's no doubt in my mind that if God were to peak through the heavens on us and say "hey, how are you doing? I'm God," we would faint. God’s "goodness" would just spill wrath upon evil man. However, he told Moses, "It shall come to pass, while my glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with my hand while I pass by." The only way we can live in the presence of a holy God is to be hidden in the Rock of Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4). This scripture in Exodus was alluding to the prophecy of Christ.

I think if anyone is looking for a sign from God then they've already been given one and missed it; you have the testimony of creation and the Christian, if you deny both those, you have the testimony of your conscience. If your conscience fails you, I can only suggest that you read the Gospel in the Bible. There is really no other way to find out unless you believe that you need saving and find out what that means - reading the Bible isn't something that is accomplished on your own, God has taught me because I've surrendered my live to Christ and ask him to teach me what he wants me to know from reading his Bible.
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(edited by tRIUNE on 03-25-12 04:20 AM)    

03-25-12 11:30 AM
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I am curious about the claim that if you don't believe in Christianity then your conscience has failed you. Such a claim would be based on a few assumptions, the least of which not being that the Christian god exists as the Bible explains him. I'm fine with people believing that, of course, but when you extend that to judgments of another person's character then I'll be sure to take issue with the statement. I'm sure I read into that a bit too much, and you didn't mean that as I read it. But I wanted to throw my two scents into the thread (I thought they were both delightfully delicious).

Another issue I take is that the Bible is being referred to as evidence. For someone who already believes, this is understandable. But for someone like leggy and myself, this is hardly going to convince us that you're right. Plenty of religions have a holy book and their's seem no less accurate than your's. In fact, the Bible is a huge part of the reason that I'm not a Christian anymore.
I am curious about the claim that if you don't believe in Christianity then your conscience has failed you. Such a claim would be based on a few assumptions, the least of which not being that the Christian god exists as the Bible explains him. I'm fine with people believing that, of course, but when you extend that to judgments of another person's character then I'll be sure to take issue with the statement. I'm sure I read into that a bit too much, and you didn't mean that as I read it. But I wanted to throw my two scents into the thread (I thought they were both delightfully delicious).

Another issue I take is that the Bible is being referred to as evidence. For someone who already believes, this is understandable. But for someone like leggy and myself, this is hardly going to convince us that you're right. Plenty of religions have a holy book and their's seem no less accurate than your's. In fact, the Bible is a huge part of the reason that I'm not a Christian anymore.
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Well, I'll just say what most will say and compile everything of what I know thus far down in the shortest way possible. Accepting and believing IS of the mind. And like how one would accept a person, or anything that exists today, it requires you to go on a journey of sorts. For ANYTHING I should say, it requires a lot of time, patience, and effort. If you don't have that to give, I don't think you'd truly understand anything of religion since all of that requires some sort of research.

The evidence of anything is only by what you perceive them to be. For all one would know, you may have missed out on some hints, or some hints may just be right in front of you or just around the corner. It all takes is a willingness to learn. Which is what you seem to possess, so that's an initiative right there. Just begin that journey and search.
Well, I'll just say what most will say and compile everything of what I know thus far down in the shortest way possible. Accepting and believing IS of the mind. And like how one would accept a person, or anything that exists today, it requires you to go on a journey of sorts. For ANYTHING I should say, it requires a lot of time, patience, and effort. If you don't have that to give, I don't think you'd truly understand anything of religion since all of that requires some sort of research.

The evidence of anything is only by what you perceive them to be. For all one would know, you may have missed out on some hints, or some hints may just be right in front of you or just around the corner. It all takes is a willingness to learn. Which is what you seem to possess, so that's an initiative right there. Just begin that journey and search.
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03-25-12 04:59 PM
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I have to agree with soxfan on this front, as far as the Bible goes.

----------------------

I'll say this once more for those who were not aware...

I was a Christian once.

I used to read the Bible, pray, the usual.

But now I can't see the Bible as a representation of the truth. For me, it is just a book of fiction with a lot of fans. To make matters more convoluted... the Bible seems the same to me as the holy books of other religions.

It's a nice try, but I'm not going to believe in the Bible until I can believe in the existance of a higher power. As without that belief... I'm just not going to be able to take the Bible at all seriously.
I have to agree with soxfan on this front, as far as the Bible goes.

----------------------

I'll say this once more for those who were not aware...

I was a Christian once.

I used to read the Bible, pray, the usual.

But now I can't see the Bible as a representation of the truth. For me, it is just a book of fiction with a lot of fans. To make matters more convoluted... the Bible seems the same to me as the holy books of other religions.

It's a nice try, but I'm not going to believe in the Bible until I can believe in the existance of a higher power. As without that belief... I'm just not going to be able to take the Bible at all seriously.
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03-25-12 06:05 PM
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Well, thing is... And this is why debates like this tend to be inconclusive with results is that all this is dependent on the person's mind and what they perceive as evidence and truth.

Reason why I'm Christian is that I have the mind that wants to learn more of the divine entity. I want to learn more about what it means to be "enlightened". I've been dragged to church and such when I was a child, but yes, no one told me I had to believe it. I want to believe it myself, so I'm currently on the journey of figuring out what I believe it takes to be truly "enlightened" as a way of also being happy. Am I happy at the moment? Yeah, I'd like to say I am. My mind is open to anything so I have the mindset to believe things in the Bible but also listen to what others have to say and have the notion to give judgement based on my ideals that have been developed based on what I know/perceive to be right or wrong.

Conclusion? You only believe based on how the mind goes. So what would be evidence to some will not be evidence to all. 

You said you were ONCE Christian, so that means you ONCE had the process of mind to believe the Bible as evidence. Since you're no longer Christian, you don't believe it anymore, as you said. So what do you consider to be evidence or concrete proof?

In some cases, the matters may not BE concrete, which I think is another point as to why these debates also don't go very far.
Well, thing is... And this is why debates like this tend to be inconclusive with results is that all this is dependent on the person's mind and what they perceive as evidence and truth.

Reason why I'm Christian is that I have the mind that wants to learn more of the divine entity. I want to learn more about what it means to be "enlightened". I've been dragged to church and such when I was a child, but yes, no one told me I had to believe it. I want to believe it myself, so I'm currently on the journey of figuring out what I believe it takes to be truly "enlightened" as a way of also being happy. Am I happy at the moment? Yeah, I'd like to say I am. My mind is open to anything so I have the mindset to believe things in the Bible but also listen to what others have to say and have the notion to give judgement based on my ideals that have been developed based on what I know/perceive to be right or wrong.

Conclusion? You only believe based on how the mind goes. So what would be evidence to some will not be evidence to all. 

You said you were ONCE Christian, so that means you ONCE had the process of mind to believe the Bible as evidence. Since you're no longer Christian, you don't believe it anymore, as you said. So what do you consider to be evidence or concrete proof?

In some cases, the matters may not BE concrete, which I think is another point as to why these debates also don't go very far.
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MissComical :

The problem with my lack of faith is that I started chasing answers to questions that probably shouldn't have been asked.

It started me down a road where I eventually became a cynic.

Anything other than undeniable doubt pretty much comes off as not true to me.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for, but I don't see it.
MissComical :

The problem with my lack of faith is that I started chasing answers to questions that probably shouldn't have been asked.

It started me down a road where I eventually became a cynic.

Anything other than undeniable doubt pretty much comes off as not true to me.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for, but I don't see it.
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03-25-12 06:36 PM
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legacyme3 :

Ok! That's the kind of reply I was looking for, really. Delving a little bit more into what brought about the doubts in the first place.

Now we're actually getting somewhere!~

I think the answer lies into figuring out what you're asking/looking for. That's usually how to start research about anything.

Once you get that down, the next thing is figuring out where to search. It's one thing to go to church and so on to find religious answers, but it's another to have an openness or tolerance for it.

From what I've seen, most people have usually been in your position because of the same reason. Being cynical and being skeptical are two different things. And I think you're just a bit skeptical.

So, what rests is that you finding a starting ground again. Every question can have an answer, sometimes multiple ones. All questions are meant to be asked, so don't be so doubtful that they shouldn't be asked, every human conscious deserves to ask and answer questions and ponder about them. Don't dwell upon them, ok?~ 
legacyme3 :

Ok! That's the kind of reply I was looking for, really. Delving a little bit more into what brought about the doubts in the first place.

Now we're actually getting somewhere!~

I think the answer lies into figuring out what you're asking/looking for. That's usually how to start research about anything.

Once you get that down, the next thing is figuring out where to search. It's one thing to go to church and so on to find religious answers, but it's another to have an openness or tolerance for it.

From what I've seen, most people have usually been in your position because of the same reason. Being cynical and being skeptical are two different things. And I think you're just a bit skeptical.

So, what rests is that you finding a starting ground again. Every question can have an answer, sometimes multiple ones. All questions are meant to be asked, so don't be so doubtful that they shouldn't be asked, every human conscious deserves to ask and answer questions and ponder about them. Don't dwell upon them, ok?~ 
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(edited by MissComical on 03-25-12 06:37 PM)    

03-25-12 09:54 PM
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JigSaw :
geeogree :

With the examples JigSaw offered, people are just believing something that someone else told them. In Christianity people are believing things written in a book that was supposedly written well over a thousand years ago. Moreover, in some branches of Christianity they are devoting some or all of their lives to some greater power described in that book.

Believing in the ideals is interesting to me. Believing in a higher power that there is no proof of is kind of pushing it.

I've been through some rough sh*t in the past few years. Things turned out better than I could have possibly imagined. Some say there was a higher power involved. I do believe that something happened, but I won't believe in a God unless I see solid irrefutable proof or something that convinces me without a doubt.

I know that makes me pretty stubborn, but that's just how my mind works. I overthink everything, so if there is a flaw in something, I will find it.
JigSaw :
geeogree :

With the examples JigSaw offered, people are just believing something that someone else told them. In Christianity people are believing things written in a book that was supposedly written well over a thousand years ago. Moreover, in some branches of Christianity they are devoting some or all of their lives to some greater power described in that book.

Believing in the ideals is interesting to me. Believing in a higher power that there is no proof of is kind of pushing it.

I've been through some rough sh*t in the past few years. Things turned out better than I could have possibly imagined. Some say there was a higher power involved. I do believe that something happened, but I won't believe in a God unless I see solid irrefutable proof or something that convinces me without a doubt.

I know that makes me pretty stubborn, but that's just how my mind works. I overthink everything, so if there is a flaw in something, I will find it.
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03-25-12 11:00 PM
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BNuge : yeah, but take all the "religion" out of the equation and look at what Jesus actually taught and you'll have trouble finding any flaw in it. The real problem is people have made religion so much more than doing good for others that they've lost the message completely.
BNuge : yeah, but take all the "religion" out of the equation and look at what Jesus actually taught and you'll have trouble finding any flaw in it. The real problem is people have made religion so much more than doing good for others that they've lost the message completely.
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03-26-12 09:20 AM
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On the issue of irrefutable proof, this reminds me of the signs Moses and Aaron performed in front of Pharaoh. Aaron threw down his staff and it became a snake. Pharaoh summoned his sorcerers, magicians, and wise men, and they performed the same thing. The same thing happened when Moses struck the Nile with his staff and turn the water into blood, and again with the plague of frogs. Pharaoh summoned his wise men and was given "proof" that the signs meant nothing. Therefore, Pharaoh hardened his heart.

Pharaoh did summon his wise men to prove that the other plagues were not of God's hand, but even when his wise men said, "This is the finger of God," when answering for the plague of gnats, Pharaoh still hardened his heart and would not listen. And even when Pharaoh himself investigated and saw for himself that the plague on livestock was as Moses said, Pharaoh refused to believe.

This applies to us even today. Refusing to believe that God exists because we are capable of explaining a few things hardens our hearts making it impossible to believe that which we cannot explain or comprehend. As I said before, I myself do not believe in God's grace as if I had a blindfold over my face.
On the issue of irrefutable proof, this reminds me of the signs Moses and Aaron performed in front of Pharaoh. Aaron threw down his staff and it became a snake. Pharaoh summoned his sorcerers, magicians, and wise men, and they performed the same thing. The same thing happened when Moses struck the Nile with his staff and turn the water into blood, and again with the plague of frogs. Pharaoh summoned his wise men and was given "proof" that the signs meant nothing. Therefore, Pharaoh hardened his heart.

Pharaoh did summon his wise men to prove that the other plagues were not of God's hand, but even when his wise men said, "This is the finger of God," when answering for the plague of gnats, Pharaoh still hardened his heart and would not listen. And even when Pharaoh himself investigated and saw for himself that the plague on livestock was as Moses said, Pharaoh refused to believe.

This applies to us even today. Refusing to believe that God exists because we are capable of explaining a few things hardens our hearts making it impossible to believe that which we cannot explain or comprehend. As I said before, I myself do not believe in God's grace as if I had a blindfold over my face.
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03-26-12 09:56 AM
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But that doesn't really mean much, Aura. Should we just accept anything which may have other potential answers? What makes the Christian god any more credible or realistic than any god of any other religion, or even a god who has no religion?

Certainly I understand that explaining how things can occur without god would make one harden their heart toward him. But unless you know for a fact that he exists, which no one does, then you cannot claim absolutely that that is necessarily a bad thing. Were I to harden my hearts toward a false god, I don't think a real god would be upset with me.
But that doesn't really mean much, Aura. Should we just accept anything which may have other potential answers? What makes the Christian god any more credible or realistic than any god of any other religion, or even a god who has no religion?

Certainly I understand that explaining how things can occur without god would make one harden their heart toward him. But unless you know for a fact that he exists, which no one does, then you cannot claim absolutely that that is necessarily a bad thing. Were I to harden my hearts toward a false god, I don't think a real god would be upset with me.
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I didn't read everything on this thread and I have been away for quite some time, but I was wondering if we want to focus on a certain aspect of this conversation: When is it accurate to say that faith is "blind"? I have no recall of anyone from church history or the primary definition of faith, either secular or scripture, to be without evidence or something that would cause a person to trust in something. I do think that it is unfortunate that many Christians would use "well, just have faith" when asked by a nonbeliever about a question or an objection of the Christian faith. Some of these Christians probably ARE living in blind faith by not examining or even not knowing what they believe. There are answers to these objections is never meant to be trusted blindly. In fact, Saint Anselm of Canterbury, who's famous for saying "fides quaerens intellectum" (faith seeking understanding), states that those whose "faith" is to believe in something because they should believe it is a "dead" faith. 

At the same time, it does require faith to trust in God, because the fact that we ARE human, and not God. We are not all-knowing and there are definitely things that are limited to our human understanding. Also, if one is not humble enough to be open to a belief in God, no matter how much evidence people give you, you still won't have faith in God. Faith is not just an evidence issue, it is also the willingness to trust in it. It is like when supporting a scientific theory, if one does not have the openness to believe in the data or the theory itself, then no evidence will ever be enough for the person to trust in the scientific model. His own refusal is the prevention of his own trust in the theory.

So what is faith?
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) Faith has assurance, and some of that assurance comes from many places, whether it is through scripture, through natural studies and natural theology, and through many other fields of understanding the world. Because we are dealing with the subject of truth, we are to deal with all things that are used to find truth."All truth is God’s truth" says St. Augustine.

So believing in Christianity is definitely both having the assurance in knowledge and understanding as well as the humility to want to come to faith in Him. There are definitely answers to many nonbeliever's questions and objections that were answered a long time ago, and it isn't hard to find Christians, even on vizzed, to ask about questions or objections that you may have on Christianity. I myself have done a couple of YouTube videos devoting to answering these questions, and will be returning to do them soon. But more importantly, what is your motive? Are you wanting to seek after God because it is "cool"? Because "everyone is doing it"? because you think that it will make your life feel better? Or are you actually seeking God because He is true, that He created you, that you like everyone else have strayed from Him, and yet He died for you, and you are grateful by His love while disgusted by your own transgressions, that you want to love Him back and return to Him, as His child? Ask yourself that. Are you genuinely wanting to seek Him, for His purposes, not yours?
I didn't read everything on this thread and I have been away for quite some time, but I was wondering if we want to focus on a certain aspect of this conversation: When is it accurate to say that faith is "blind"? I have no recall of anyone from church history or the primary definition of faith, either secular or scripture, to be without evidence or something that would cause a person to trust in something. I do think that it is unfortunate that many Christians would use "well, just have faith" when asked by a nonbeliever about a question or an objection of the Christian faith. Some of these Christians probably ARE living in blind faith by not examining or even not knowing what they believe. There are answers to these objections is never meant to be trusted blindly. In fact, Saint Anselm of Canterbury, who's famous for saying "fides quaerens intellectum" (faith seeking understanding), states that those whose "faith" is to believe in something because they should believe it is a "dead" faith. 

At the same time, it does require faith to trust in God, because the fact that we ARE human, and not God. We are not all-knowing and there are definitely things that are limited to our human understanding. Also, if one is not humble enough to be open to a belief in God, no matter how much evidence people give you, you still won't have faith in God. Faith is not just an evidence issue, it is also the willingness to trust in it. It is like when supporting a scientific theory, if one does not have the openness to believe in the data or the theory itself, then no evidence will ever be enough for the person to trust in the scientific model. His own refusal is the prevention of his own trust in the theory.

So what is faith?
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) Faith has assurance, and some of that assurance comes from many places, whether it is through scripture, through natural studies and natural theology, and through many other fields of understanding the world. Because we are dealing with the subject of truth, we are to deal with all things that are used to find truth."All truth is God’s truth" says St. Augustine.

So believing in Christianity is definitely both having the assurance in knowledge and understanding as well as the humility to want to come to faith in Him. There are definitely answers to many nonbeliever's questions and objections that were answered a long time ago, and it isn't hard to find Christians, even on vizzed, to ask about questions or objections that you may have on Christianity. I myself have done a couple of YouTube videos devoting to answering these questions, and will be returning to do them soon. But more importantly, what is your motive? Are you wanting to seek after God because it is "cool"? Because "everyone is doing it"? because you think that it will make your life feel better? Or are you actually seeking God because He is true, that He created you, that you like everyone else have strayed from Him, and yet He died for you, and you are grateful by His love while disgusted by your own transgressions, that you want to love Him back and return to Him, as His child? Ask yourself that. Are you genuinely wanting to seek Him, for His purposes, not yours?
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