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10-19-11 11:46 PM
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Recently a kid at my high school committed suicide (due to depression).  Now, normally, people at the school will just say "that's terrible" and move on, but there's a bit of an ongoing debate now that one of my friends caused. 

We were talking about something or other, when my friend came over and said "Hey guys, some kid committed suicide yesterday."  We all agreed on how terrible it was, and were about to move on when said friend asks "How is it terrible?"  Curious, we asked him what he meant by that when he gave us the response "Why pity him, he took the cowards way out."

Now we're all debating whether or not it's truly cowardly to commit suicide.  Having been raised by Catholic parents, and agreeing with many of the principles in Bushido, I have to say that suicide isn't the proper route when dealing with a problem like depression.  However, I wouldn't necessarily call it cowardly. 

Recently a kid at my high school committed suicide (due to depression).  Now, normally, people at the school will just say "that's terrible" and move on, but there's a bit of an ongoing debate now that one of my friends caused. 

We were talking about something or other, when my friend came over and said "Hey guys, some kid committed suicide yesterday."  We all agreed on how terrible it was, and were about to move on when said friend asks "How is it terrible?"  Curious, we asked him what he meant by that when he gave us the response "Why pity him, he took the cowards way out."

Now we're all debating whether or not it's truly cowardly to commit suicide.  Having been raised by Catholic parents, and agreeing with many of the principles in Bushido, I have to say that suicide isn't the proper route when dealing with a problem like depression.  However, I wouldn't necessarily call it cowardly. 



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10-20-11 03:36 AM
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He could have easily gone to school and killed people, so having him commit suicide without harming anyone else (physically) was the right thing to do. Calling him a coward would make more sense if he did something bad such as kill a bunch of kids then killed himself cause he couldn't handle being behind bars for life. I think he took the right path. Its better he did it this early in life cause it could have been far worse. He could have had children and then killed himself. He could have killed people and then killed himself. I think he knew he was unfixable so he decided to end it.

Is that cowardly? Not to him and that is all that matters. If your friends opinion mattered then he would probably be dead first. No disrespect to your friend but sometimes that is how the cookie crumbles, the kid who committed suicide could have taken anyone with him if he wanted and that would have been more cowardly wouldn't it?
He could have easily gone to school and killed people, so having him commit suicide without harming anyone else (physically) was the right thing to do. Calling him a coward would make more sense if he did something bad such as kill a bunch of kids then killed himself cause he couldn't handle being behind bars for life. I think he took the right path. Its better he did it this early in life cause it could have been far worse. He could have had children and then killed himself. He could have killed people and then killed himself. I think he knew he was unfixable so he decided to end it.

Is that cowardly? Not to him and that is all that matters. If your friends opinion mattered then he would probably be dead first. No disrespect to your friend but sometimes that is how the cookie crumbles, the kid who committed suicide could have taken anyone with him if he wanted and that would have been more cowardly wouldn't it?

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10-20-11 02:08 PM
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There are other threads on Suicide over the the Cafe... but since this is debating the coward issue specifically I am letting this stay open.

From my personal standpoint, I don't think it's a coward's way out. A coward could not summon the willpower it takes to override your natural survival instincts and end your own life. Is it the right thing to do? No, there are better ways, with few exceptions.
There are other threads on Suicide over the the Cafe... but since this is debating the coward issue specifically I am letting this stay open.

From my personal standpoint, I don't think it's a coward's way out. A coward could not summon the willpower it takes to override your natural survival instincts and end your own life. Is it the right thing to do? No, there are better ways, with few exceptions.

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10-22-11 09:22 PM
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I wouldn't say that it's the cowards way out, Most of the time the depression Is just so large That they can't handle it anymore and The suicidal thoughts take over. Depression Is like cancer, sometimes It can be cured by medicine, Sometimes It can't be cured but slowed down, Sometimes The medicine does not help at all and the person dies. I think of it simply as That call me crazy That is simply What I believe, that it is a mental disease.





I wouldn't say that it's the cowards way out, Most of the time the depression Is just so large That they can't handle it anymore and The suicidal thoughts take over. Depression Is like cancer, sometimes It can be cured by medicine, Sometimes It can't be cured but slowed down, Sometimes The medicine does not help at all and the person dies. I think of it simply as That call me crazy That is simply What I believe, that it is a mental disease.


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10-22-11 09:52 PM
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*sighs*

I honestly am not sure what I think on this topic. I would have to say that it is not. They may call it that in Call of Duty but really it is more selfish than cowardly. You have all these people that care for you but you do not think that it is enough so you kill yourself so that people more or less will notice you more. I see it as being selfish and wanting to make a statement but not cowardly. May be easy but so is getting old and dying, or getting in a car crash tonight because of a drunk and dying. Dying is a natural thing that is not supposed to be hard.
*sighs*

I honestly am not sure what I think on this topic. I would have to say that it is not. They may call it that in Call of Duty but really it is more selfish than cowardly. You have all these people that care for you but you do not think that it is enough so you kill yourself so that people more or less will notice you more. I see it as being selfish and wanting to make a statement but not cowardly. May be easy but so is getting old and dying, or getting in a car crash tonight because of a drunk and dying. Dying is a natural thing that is not supposed to be hard.

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10-22-11 10:32 PM
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When you think of the mentality of someone who has reached that point, it is not a cowards way out or selfish. Normally, when a person commits suicide, they have reached that point where they feel that they are completely alone in the world. Whether that is true or not, they usually are at a point where they honestly think that nobody would really miss them or even notice if they were gone. When they truly believe that and think so little of themselves, it isn't like they are putting their pain above other peoples feelings. You have to really reach a low point where you feel you have nobody to reach that point. It just seems cowardly or selfish to those who don't feel that way themselves. 
When you think of the mentality of someone who has reached that point, it is not a cowards way out or selfish. Normally, when a person commits suicide, they have reached that point where they feel that they are completely alone in the world. Whether that is true or not, they usually are at a point where they honestly think that nobody would really miss them or even notice if they were gone. When they truly believe that and think so little of themselves, it isn't like they are putting their pain above other peoples feelings. You have to really reach a low point where you feel you have nobody to reach that point. It just seems cowardly or selfish to those who don't feel that way themselves. 

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10-22-11 10:56 PM
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Respectfully, I'd say that it takes a lot of balls to end your own life. Having known family members who have killed themselves, I can say, at least from my own experience, that suicide is not the coward's way out.

It takes a great amount of courage to blow your own head off with a shotgun.
Respectfully, I'd say that it takes a lot of balls to end your own life. Having known family members who have killed themselves, I can say, at least from my own experience, that suicide is not the coward's way out.

It takes a great amount of courage to blow your own head off with a shotgun.

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10-26-11 03:32 PM
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    I am studying the  theory of Freud's theories and my "school life",and see that he did it as an escape for himself.
    These people commit suicide because they want to run away from problems,may also be that they feel alone,he had no one to blow off steam,and/or no one understood him,and what she was felling was building up,these people need someone to cry,talk all you fell for them fell better.
I've been depressed for 2 years,nobody helped me,I left this alone,like a phoenix that rises from the ashes,and almost got into another,but I won.
   An ever heard speak his own enemy is yourself.
   And it was true I had to fight with myself,as they say inner demons.
   Many commit suicide because there is no structure to face the obstacles of life.
   Yes he was a coward.
    I am studying the  theory of Freud's theories and my "school life",and see that he did it as an escape for himself.
    These people commit suicide because they want to run away from problems,may also be that they feel alone,he had no one to blow off steam,and/or no one understood him,and what she was felling was building up,these people need someone to cry,talk all you fell for them fell better.
I've been depressed for 2 years,nobody helped me,I left this alone,like a phoenix that rises from the ashes,and almost got into another,but I won.
   An ever heard speak his own enemy is yourself.
   And it was true I had to fight with myself,as they say inner demons.
   Many commit suicide because there is no structure to face the obstacles of life.
   Yes he was a coward.


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10-26-11 07:35 PM
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I am Catholic too, but it does not say anywhere in the bible that suicide is wrong unless you consider killing yourself murder. I believe that with the right to live comes the right to die, but that suicide is only the right choice in extreme circumstances where you would be better off dead than alive. 
I am Catholic too, but it does not say anywhere in the bible that suicide is wrong unless you consider killing yourself murder. I believe that with the right to live comes the right to die, but that suicide is only the right choice in extreme circumstances where you would be better off dead than alive. 

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10-26-11 10:23 PM
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Suicide's way of saying "its the coward's way out" its somewhat insulting if you are one friend of a victim, its one's choice to take one's life, it could have many reasons to do so, I just hope one can stop him/her from doing this act. Its not the coward's way out, its just an unfortunate incident



Suicide's way of saying "its the coward's way out" its somewhat insulting if you are one friend of a victim, its one's choice to take one's life, it could have many reasons to do so, I just hope one can stop him/her from doing this act. Its not the coward's way out, its just an unfortunate incident

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"Why pity him, he took the cowards way out."

This actually makes me kind of mad. If he ended his life, he did it because of how much he was suffering. If he saw any way out of it, he would have taken that road. When someone is being tormented that much (by whatever is going on in their mind) and they have no way out, suicide is the only option left.

To take someone who was suffering that much and call them a coward bothers me.








"Why pity him, he took the cowards way out."

This actually makes me kind of mad. If he ended his life, he did it because of how much he was suffering. If he saw any way out of it, he would have taken that road. When someone is being tormented that much (by whatever is going on in their mind) and they have no way out, suicide is the only option left.

To take someone who was suffering that much and call them a coward bothers me.

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Depends on the situation. When someone who is mentally unstable or tortured everyday by bullies decides to take their own lives not because they are afraid but because it's the only way they see to get out of the situation and end their suffering. Calling everybody that kills themselves a coward is ignorant in my opinion. There's a point where everyone would eventually break.


Depends on the situation. When someone who is mentally unstable or tortured everyday by bullies decides to take their own lives not because they are afraid but because it's the only way they see to get out of the situation and end their suffering. Calling everybody that kills themselves a coward is ignorant in my opinion. There's a point where everyone would eventually break.



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I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I don't think suicide is cowardly at all. It is simply one of many possible options that one may have when suffering. People often say that it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but that's way over-simplifying it. While some people could stand to have counseling instead, others may see suicide as a last resort and may feel that they've exhausted all other options. At that point I can't blame them.

That said, I don't pity the dead. I may be disappointed if others have driven the person to that point (especially if they drove them to suicide intentionally). But I see no reason to worry about or feel sad for those who are dead.

I also don't see how suicide could possibly be selfish. Honestly, I think demanding that someone suffer because you don't want to say goodbye yet is far more selfish.
I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I don't think suicide is cowardly at all. It is simply one of many possible options that one may have when suffering. People often say that it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but that's way over-simplifying it. While some people could stand to have counseling instead, others may see suicide as a last resort and may feel that they've exhausted all other options. At that point I can't blame them.

That said, I don't pity the dead. I may be disappointed if others have driven the person to that point (especially if they drove them to suicide intentionally). But I see no reason to worry about or feel sad for those who are dead.

I also don't see how suicide could possibly be selfish. Honestly, I think demanding that someone suffer because you don't want to say goodbye yet is far more selfish.

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I think it's just terrible calling him a coward I mean for pete's sake he was depressed and didn't know what to do. He was probably feeling confused and probably suffering as well (mentally and emotionally) my question is why the heck didn't anyone try to help him? I don't think he was a coward though I find this more tragic than cowardly.
I think it's just terrible calling him a coward I mean for pete's sake he was depressed and didn't know what to do. He was probably feeling confused and probably suffering as well (mentally and emotionally) my question is why the heck didn't anyone try to help him? I don't think he was a coward though I find this more tragic than cowardly.

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When someone commits suicide they are going through - from their perspective - the absolute limit of extreme turmoil, pain and suffering, while feeling utterly alone, and that there is no other way to escape it.

Some suicidal people are able to find some form of strength and overcome their problems. But at one point, they were all in a position where they nearly couldn't take it anymore, afraid, alone, wanting to die. Maybe it is cowardly to end your life in the face of such feelings. But can you blame someone for being afraid of having to face more of the pain? Anyone would be. It is still a tragedy and certainly worth concern and grief.
 
When someone commits suicide they are going through - from their perspective - the absolute limit of extreme turmoil, pain and suffering, while feeling utterly alone, and that there is no other way to escape it.

Some suicidal people are able to find some form of strength and overcome their problems. But at one point, they were all in a position where they nearly couldn't take it anymore, afraid, alone, wanting to die. Maybe it is cowardly to end your life in the face of such feelings. But can you blame someone for being afraid of having to face more of the pain? Anyone would be. It is still a tragedy and certainly worth concern and grief.
 

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(edited by Annette on 01-23-12 04:36 PM)    

01-23-12 06:13 PM
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I remember commenting on a thread like this in cafe corner, due to most of the comments there i began to feel that americans had no sense of empathy at all, im glad the comments here are so far the opposite way.
I remember commenting on a thread like this in cafe corner, due to most of the comments there i began to feel that americans had no sense of empathy at all, im glad the comments here are so far the opposite way.

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I honestly don't think it's the coward's way out. I do however think it's a little selfish. They don't seem to think of all the people who will be hurting after they're gone. Loved ones is what I am referring to. My loved ones are the reason I have never committed suicide. Yeah I've had the thoughts and attempted it in the past. But thankfully I did not succeed. I know it would have hurt them, and I don't want them to suffer just because I felt like I had to end it all. I've been through a lot, yes I know everyone goes through something. But I feel, if I was able to get through what I did, life can't be that bad. I'm still here. It's sad that they feel they can't reach out to others for help. =(
I honestly don't think it's the coward's way out. I do however think it's a little selfish. They don't seem to think of all the people who will be hurting after they're gone. Loved ones is what I am referring to. My loved ones are the reason I have never committed suicide. Yeah I've had the thoughts and attempted it in the past. But thankfully I did not succeed. I know it would have hurt them, and I don't want them to suffer just because I felt like I had to end it all. I've been through a lot, yes I know everyone goes through something. But I feel, if I was able to get through what I did, life can't be that bad. I'm still here. It's sad that they feel they can't reach out to others for help. =(

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I find doing suicide pretty bad.I mean,you could find a way to fix a problem you have or if you're getting bullied,you can just ignore the bullies.I mean,if I was a coward,I wouldn't do suicide.So a coward could find a way to be brave





I find doing suicide pretty bad.I mean,you could find a way to fix a problem you have or if you're getting bullied,you can just ignore the bullies.I mean,if I was a coward,I wouldn't do suicide.So a coward could find a way to be brave

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thenumberone : yup, I was thinking the same.

calling someone who committed suicide a coward - that is far more cowardly to me than suicide.
You can't just fix something inside you like you can fix a broken chair or whatever. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.
And just because some people succeed in fixing themselves, doesn't mean everyone will.
You can't compare everyone and everything from your point of view, see the bigger picture people.

Like I've mentioned before and has been mentioned in this thread also - people who committ suicide  are past the point where they actually think about how it will make others feel - they just can't live with themselves anymore, for whatever the reasons.
So, the concepts of "coward" and "selfish" do not apply here.
If someone actually killed themselves in order to hurt other people then I'd call it selfish and cowardly.
thenumberone : yup, I was thinking the same.

calling someone who committed suicide a coward - that is far more cowardly to me than suicide.
You can't just fix something inside you like you can fix a broken chair or whatever. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.
And just because some people succeed in fixing themselves, doesn't mean everyone will.
You can't compare everyone and everything from your point of view, see the bigger picture people.

Like I've mentioned before and has been mentioned in this thread also - people who committ suicide  are past the point where they actually think about how it will make others feel - they just can't live with themselves anymore, for whatever the reasons.
So, the concepts of "coward" and "selfish" do not apply here.
If someone actually killed themselves in order to hurt other people then I'd call it selfish and cowardly.


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02-26-12 06:07 PM
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rcarter2
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aili : Amen to that. I hate hear someone say that people who commit suicide should have focused on fixing things. It doesn't work that way and it is not easy like they make it sound. I was not too happy with starwars293's post. Saying that people can just ignore the bullies is atrocious. People can be downright cruel to the point where it makes you feel lower than the lowest low. Good luck ignoring that. Some people really underestimate what bullying can do. Just because they didn't experience REAL bullying themselves, they think that it is not a big deal.





aili : Amen to that. I hate hear someone say that people who commit suicide should have focused on fixing things. It doesn't work that way and it is not easy like they make it sound. I was not too happy with starwars293's post. Saying that people can just ignore the bullies is atrocious. People can be downright cruel to the point where it makes you feel lower than the lowest low. Good luck ignoring that. Some people really underestimate what bullying can do. Just because they didn't experience REAL bullying themselves, they think that it is not a big deal.

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