You can't get to heaven by doing good deeds, going to church, looking good on the outside, etc..... Now it's good to go to church and do good deeds, but the only way you can get to heaven is through God. You must trust in him, put your faith into him, meditate on his Holy Word, The Bible. But if you don't believe and trust in the Lord, we'll I'll have to say this in the most polite way I can, you'll go to Hell, and I don't want to see you like that.
So trust in the Lord and he will bless you!

"But if you don't believe and trust in the Lord, we'll I'll have to say this in the most polite way I can, you'll go to Hell"

So, anyone who doesn't trust in God goes to hell? I'm so glad you're wrong because otherwise you would be damning billions of people to hell for no good reason.

The idea that your actions play no part in whether you go to heaven or hell is idiotic. Good people go to hell if they don't "trust in the Lord" as you say.

geeogree : Haven't we already talked about this in a separate thread
I do wanna add to it though. Is it really that hard to believe that God would unleash His wrath on those who have done wrong and who don't trust and believe in Him? The Old Testament is filled with actions that show how powerful and mighty God is, and the New Testament shows some actions of wrath too. And Revelation? Well, that's a whole book full of wrath lol.
Clayton 2, I think you're right. I'm glad you think that deeds aren't what get you into heaven.

mdynasty926 : yup, we have talked about this in another thread.... and it doesn't change how I feel on the subject. The idea that people are going to hell for not believing in God is something I just don't believe. Damning someone to eternal punishment and torture is not the merciful God I believe in.

geeogree : Like I said though, God is not only a merciful God, He's also a God capable of wrath.

yeah, but towards good people.... just because they don't believe in him. There have been billions of people who have never had the chance to know who Jesus is/was. They are all damned for that? Sorry, that just doesn't cut it for me.

geeogree : Why do you think missionaries are out there trying to reach out to those in places that don't hear about Jesus at all? The reason they risk their lives and devote their lives to the missions is because if they don't hear about God, they'll go to hell. If this weren't true, then they wouldn't exactly have to go to places like Africa or some other difficult place to live. People would only need to go to heaven by good deeds. Missionaries wouldn't really have much purpose would they?

.... so you're agreeing that you believe that billions of people are going to (or have) gone to hell for this reason?

That's scary.

geeogree : Yes, that is scary, which is why I have to trust in God and believe in Him, and repent my sins. It is also our responsibility as Christians to share our faith, which again, missionaries are doing their job sharing the gospel to people who can't hear the gospel because of lack of Christians or that they're just so isolated from the world like jungle tribes and stuff like that.
Again, there is no reason missionaries to even risk their lives if it what Clayton 2 said was not true. The people would just have to do good works. The fact is, ALL of us have sinned against God. That is why we have to repent our sins, trust in God, and believe in Him to be saved. Does God have a reason to damn people to hell even if they do good works? Yes, because everyone has sinned against God. Because of sin since the beginning of creation, we have been separated from God... we need to reconnect with God by doing what I already mentioned.
Doing good works is great. I didn't say I had a problem with it. I'm just saying that it doesn't get you to heaven.
What if it was the other way around? If someone was a Christian, he loves God and trusts in Him, but they have done bad things, and supposedly still has trouble with it now. Do you think they won't go to heaven because of that?
I really hope you at least consider this...

okay, here is something to consider:

God created humanity.... he placed each one of us on the earth at the time and place he did. He chose that time and place. The circumstances were dictated by him. Now, since everyone has sinned and since billions of people were born during a time when knowledge of Jesus wasn't available to a lot of people.... God has damned all of those people because of choices he made. He knew those people would not be perfect but he put them all in those situations anyway. Eternal damnation because you were born either in the wrong place or in the wrong time. Sucks to be you!

So, really, it's God's fault if you go to hell or not.

geeogree : So you're blaming God then?
And, it's not like it's impossible to trust in God before Jesus came to Earth. God still existed in the world before Jesus was born. There were people that were really devoted to God, and the Old Testament has plenty of accounts of people like that. I don't suppose you're saying people like Moses or David are going to hell are you?

geeogree : I would like to defend Clayton 2 that he is not condemning anyone. People, including myself, are condemned already.

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (John 3:18)

You know, the reason this does not make sense to some people is because they don't understand the sinfulness of every person.

I already made the claim that no one is good, and I am backed from these verses.

"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." (James 2:10)

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)

"As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.'" (Romans 3:10-12)

So I'm curious, do you think you are a good person?

I know I'm not a good person... but I'm not the issue here.

You have basically told me that God has condemned his own creations from the get go and that because they don't believe in his name they go to hell.

And no one has explained to me why the people who have never gotten the opportunity to hear about Jesus are condemned to hell when God was the one who chose the timing of their arrival on earth and the location to which they were assigned. Yes, I am suggesting that it is God's fault that those people are going to hell, according to your belief system.

I think I'd rather go to hell than follow a god that you are describing. Why would I follow someone who is as close-minded childish sounding as that. "hey you were a great selfless person in life ...but you never thought I existed sooooo *pulls lever* have fun in hell "

So then, if people are already going to Hell for not believing in God, including a few of you and people like me (Atheists), then what's the point of living now? Why don't billions of people just kill themselves now instead of waiting to burn in the fire?

That's an impossible belief to be true... Sorry but I don't buy it...

ah, reinforcements

At least someone understands what I'm getting at.

This is the problem with religion you got people misleading you in the wrong directions saying so and so wont get you into heaven. There is no way to get into heaven unless you are quote "sucking god off". Get real... that is probably not how it works if it does work like that then I dont want to be sucking anyones cock for eternity I would rather be sent to hell for doing good things or become a lost soul on earth when I die.

God did not write those quotes so they are more then likely wrong. If the bible told you committing suicide will get you 99 virgins you would probably do it wouldn't you? The rules are simple, follow the herd of sheep into the slaughter house or become a goat and think for yourself. I'm almost positive you are being brainwashed.

The major problem I have with heaven is you become a sheep, a robot unable to think or object. To me that sounds like prison. If you call THAT heaven then you are heading in the wrong direction. Perhaps the devil is the good guy, he allows you to have your own opinion on things and will not punish you for it. But God on the other hand likes to punish people when you disagree with him to me that sounds like the real devil.

I've been through enough in my life where I can say for certain the real devil here is the ones who judge others not the other way around.

geeogree : No, God hasn't condemned them from the beginning. He has placed a knowledge of himself in everyone's heart. As Paul says in Romans "¹⁴for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, ¹⁵ who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) ¹⁶ in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."
So God has given us a way of knowing Him. And as for those prior to Jesus' coming, He allowed them a place in "Abraham's Bosom", a sort of in-between, if they followed His laws and made sacrifices for their sins.
JigSaw : Nobody ever said you had to give up free will. Even in Heaven you won't be mindless slaves, you just won't want to sin anymore. And why would you want to? And your comment about the "real devil" being the judge... so you'd rather toss out all morality and leave everyone to whatever they want?

geeogree : "I know I'm not a good person... but I'm not the issue here."

Actually, it is. People are so caught up with the idea that God is sending people to hell, when the reason people are going to hell are the sins that they commit against Him. The cause is that people sinned against God, the one who created everyone and gave life to us in this world, and yet we commit rebellion against Him by doing wrong, not just once, and also not just in public. Trust in God is the solution to that problem. No matter how hard we try, God's justice would still go against us. However, God became a man and sacrificed His life for us, so that we can have eternal life. It is the only one because the other "gods" do not exist in the first place. When we deserve punishment from Him, He provided a way. The question whether people want to return to Him, to surrender their sins to Him, or whether people want to do what they want to do, saying back to themselves, without going back to God.

So, yeah, he created us, but we spat right back at his face. Even with that, He still provided a way for us. He provided a solution to get right with Him. Our pride on our actions are preventing that.

Zamiel : "hey you were a great selfless person in life." Is this how you describe yourself?
I know it sounded "close-minded sounding," but when there is one truth, it would sound close-minded. The question is, is this truth correct?

Zeldisaster : "So then, if people are already going to Hell for not believing in God, including a few of you and people like me (Atheists), then what's the point of living now? Why don't billions of people just kill themselves now instead of waiting to burn in the fire?"

You are assuming that you will still as an Atheist for the rest of your life, which in reality, we can't see the future. You'll never know if one day you will finally open your eyes, that you would see the truth, and that it will set you free.

JigSaw : It's good to remember that when Christianity started, it was a minority, with persecution by the government at that time, to the point of death. There is a good reason that Christians believed what they believe, even if it means losing their life. Even Paul, a man of intellectual upbringing, was changed, and was willing to share the message throughout the world as he knew it, when before that, he was the killer of Christians. You can't really claim that these men, including Christians today, are brainwashed. There could be some, but most of them think with reason. A few that I can think of are Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, etc. These people were Atheists.

Okay, maybe I should say this in another way, we are all sinners and deserve eternal death, but by the Lord's eternal grace, he will save us from that place of death and he can forgive us no matter how great the sin if we trust in him.