The point in mentioning Hitler originally is that he, and the entire Nazi party really, professed themselves to be devout Christians...  yet they did horrible, unforgivable things. So, just because a politician professes to be Christian does not mean that they will be a good leader, or a good person.

Was George Washington a good leader? Yes. Was it because he was Christian? No. The Emperor Augustus was an amazing leader and a brilliant general, just like Washington... but it wasn't because he was Pagan. No one factor makes a person a good leader, to say otherwise is either wishful thinking or ignorance.

Elara : I think you misunderstand what a real christian is. And yes Christianity vs another belief would have a major effect on the decision making. It was never about me liking a leader because he professed to be a Christian, it was because he embodied those characteristics that made him a christian.

Hoochman : Considering that even most Christians cannot agree on what a "real Christian" is, are you really surprised that misunderstandings occur?

The problem with your statement is that those same characteristics are embodied in other religions too. Every faith aims to be charitable, kind, honest, thankful, etc etc. No religion goes out there and says "Hey, we're all jerks!"... well, some branches of Satanism do, but yeah... not going there.

I mean, what would you say if a leader embodied every single characteristic one of those that you say are linked to Christianity, but they were... say... Jewish? Or Agnostic? Or even and Atheist? If they were running against a Christian, who had similar ideals but not quite what you want... who would you vote for? Think about it, and be honest. 9 times out of 10, the Christian voter will vote for the Christian for no other reason than they share the same faith.

Elara : "most christians cant agree" good call on that one.
But tbh loads are biased in elections.
When watching the us presedential elections there were woman saying they wanted hilary clinton,because shes female.
There were people saying they wanted obama cos he is black.
And then there were people voting for that other guy(forgot his name now) because he was male & white.

thenumberone : Yeah, I know. It makes me sick. No one should vote on appearance of any kind, but they do, in droves. I had to suffer though the Schwarzenegger governorship for years as a result... and it sucked! But ooh, big hunky movie star, let's vote for him!

Elara : the fact he(swartz) got elected is still a standing joke in europe.and the idea that someones religion or appearance makes a difference,untrue.
Its how they were raised to act that decides it.

Elara : The similarities between Christianity and other beliefs are vague at best. And I'd say the disagreement among a majority of Christians is not what makes a christian as it is other spiritual aspects of a christian. In answer to your question, honestly I can't say that I know the answer, but nor can I really say that I've really had to, because an Atheist's ideals are usually much different than a Christians coming into an election.

Yo, the classic definition of a Christian is this.

A follower of the teachings of the disciples of Jesus Christ.

Hitler did use the church and Christianity in his propaganda, before he had power he talked about Christianity and Jesus Christ in his speeches.  But that faded out eventually after he did have power.

As for George Washington, i think he was a noble virtuous Man, who stuck by his ideals.  I'd argue that even if your an atheist your morals come from parents, or grandparents.  I am not convinced atheism offers anything worthwhile to anyone.  

And now for 2 jolly good bible verses XD

True Religion in the eyes of God is this, to take care of widows and orphans in their time of need, and to remain untainted by the world. 

and Jesus said  "the Whole of the law can be summed up in 2 commandments, to treat your fellow man like you'd treat yourself, and to love and fear God."

Hoochman : Sorry for taking a few days to reply. This is directed to your response to me and not your later posts.

First of all, I should apologize for my comment about your moral standards. It was not my intention to offend or criticize you. I was just trying to point out that saying or thinking someone isn't a Christian does not determine their  beliefs. If I stated that you are not a Christian, it in no way has any bearing on your belief system. In fact, it would say more about me than about you. I think it is a fair to say that no one here agrees with the atrocities that Hitler and members of the Nazi party committed, although there may be some lunatics or neo-nazi's lurking around here lol.

Originally, I was going to talk about the evidence that suggests that Hitler was a Christian. I was going to post a picture of him meeting with Pope Pius XII , and talk about how the two had a nonintervention  agreement (which is most likely why Pius XII is known as "the silent pope"). However, it is not my duty to defend the faith of someone else. I also see no benefit in proving he was a Christian . In my opinion it will just stir up turmoil and possibly make some of you believe that I am a Nazi supporter or evil or something along those lines. Instead, I want to ask you about prominent members of Christianity who have done other horrible things.


I will give you a cookie (mmmmmm) if you guessed that I am going to ask you about Inquisitions. You  may not be familiar with inquisitions so here is a brief explanation. They were institutions organized by popes/cardinals and other high level officials in the Catholic system. Their intent was to persecute heretics, witches, and practically everyone who didn't agree with the biblical canon. They would usually imprison and torture the suspects, and occasionally would execute them. This sort of thing wasn't exclusively lead by Catholic officials. For instance, King James often ordered witch hunts. He even wrote a short treatise called Daemonologie in which he "proved" that witches were real, and suggested that they be put to death.

The question I want to ask you , or any one else who wants to answer... Do you consider these Popes and Kings to be Christian? You said "Christianity is about forgiveness and redemption, and living life for Jesus" talking about Hitler not being a Christian. Wouldn't the same thing apply to these Christian figure heads who commited or ordered/allowed others to commit horrible things. It makes me laugh to think that the King James Bible is named after a non-Christian.

smotpoker86 : you did not offend me most assuredly.  And in answer to your question, I can easily tell you no, these kings and popes were not Christians for doing what they did. Just because Hitler interacted with the pope doesn't make him a Christian.

In supplement with Hoochman's statement:

"“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:15-23)