One thing I like reading about is how earlier on in American history we had more leaders with morals,leaders who were ultimately Christian. George Washington was a very good man and very christian. I think we need more leaders like him. In a time like this our government is filled with cronies. Going to old fashioned guys like him who are christian and care about their country wouldn't be a bad idea.

So true and yet our president now says we aren't a Christian nation but we are. The word of god is so deeply embedded that he can never take it out. We need more people like Washington to fix our country and if we don't get someone in were in trouble and I mean BIG trouble. You think now is bad? Four more years of Obama and we'll be screwed.

I'll argue that while he was a good president, it wouldn't mean we need more CHRISTIAN men like him.

I think all men are indeed equal, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, and whatever else you want to throw in. You can be morally strong, and an Atheist.

I am an atheist, for the record, but I think that atheists care as much about this country as any one else does as a collective.

We won't know unless we give them a chance.

Actually I think an atheist's morals are different than a Christian's in office. For instance I don't think I've seen a Christian argue in favor of something like abortion or Gay marriage. Whereas most atheists in office are all for something like that.

Morals should be left up to people,religion should not control politics.and really,washington was not a good man.upon independence he kept americas slave industry expanding,and embarked upon a campaign of raping and slaughtering native americans and stealing all there lands,esentialy forming an empire.and you rate him a great christian?

Actually, if you were to ask someone in the field of law, they'd most certainly tell you that humans are born with what the concepts of morally good and bad are. For example, is there any culture that supports stealing, rape, murder, etc.? We have the will to choose our own morals to add. Occasionally there are some people that break the mold of the primary crimes that I've stated, but for the most part, we know the difference.

That being said, George Washington was not a strict Christian; he often left church early and eventually stopped going all together. You'd do him justice by referring to him as primarily a free mason. Most of the founding fathers were free masons and as such did not have any real religious beliefs. To them, religion was just not part of the equation for governing. I also think it's ludicrous  to say that we need a Christian president. We already have one and have had one almost every year (minus the revolutionary presidents and JFK). Technically we are not a Christian nation. There are plenty of other beliefs or lack thereof included as well. Check the documentation. This nation has no official religion. We don't even have an official language. The beauty of the US is that we can be whatever we want.

In fact, what you're saying in wanting a Christian president goes completely against what Washington and the founding fathers wanted. They stressed the separation of church and state. It's in our Constitution. We don't need a president based on his religious affiliation, but based on his character, leadership, humility, courage, and understanding of what most of us go through.

Separation of church and state as it is meant today is no where near what Washington or the founders really wanted. The intent was to keep America from having an established state religion where one religion is accepted as it was in many European powers.  It was not meant the way it is today where religious people aren't allowed to put signs or hand out religious books on public property. Or for people in the government to be entirely secular.

The term christian back then was probably far different then what it is today considering how much times have changed. Especially with the internet and the medias impact it has on peoples beliefs. I don't know anything about him and I won't say he is great either because I don't know anything about him other then he was an independent. How many christian presidents where there? IDK but how many independent presidents where there? That is why him being independent had much more impact then him being just a christian.

Being Christian isn't good enough, but in todays world it is when it comes to picking who is right for president.

Maybe george washington is to blame, maybe its his fault that he established dictators in America. Maybe having christian morals is not a good idea when running a country. When you believe in a supernatural entity like god, then you run for president what does that make you? It makes you god because your now in complete control of the masses. This country is suppose to be the land of the free, not land of the slave. Sucking up to one man or one party or one religion is not freedom, its slavery.

Hoochman :

I am like I said earlier an atheist.

I think Gay Marriage is fine, because like with everything else, I believe they have the same inalienable rights that all other humans have.

As for Abortion, I don't have a firm stance, I think that it's more or less up to the woman to decide, it shouldn't be the man's decision at all.

The United States has no official religion, therefore we are not a Christian nation. And I prefer it that way.

A leader's religion should have no bearing on his/her election. There have been Christian leaders that have done horrible things (Hitler professed to be a very strong Christian for example). It is your actions that matter, not what you claim to believe.

And many of the other Founding Fathers were Deists, and a lot of them were Freemasons (Washington included). All were very smart, dedicated to the country, and good leaders. So how does one facet of their personality make them better than anyone else?

It doesn't.

There was really nothing about Hitler that made him a Christian.  And its human nature to have what you believe in, influence your actions. Every leader is influenced by what he believes, secular or Christians. And lots of founders professed strongly their faith.

Hoochman : "Every leader is influenced by what he believes, secular or Christians."

What you said is exactly right, people are influenced by what they believe. This is also why it is important to have a separation between church and state. I personally believe it is best if politicians leave their dogma at the door, and above all else, don't preach or promote a certain religion.

As you said in your original post, you would prefer having more Christian leaders (which by the way, I believe the majority of your presidents have been Christian). Let me ask you one thing, how would you feel about having a leader who was clearly from another religion? You don't necessarily have to answer, I just want you to think about it.

Just imagine having a Muslim president. Would you rather they preach about the Quran and implement laws based off of it, or would you rather they take a secular approach to their leadership? There are still quite a few countries where there is no separation between religion and politics. The majority of these countries are strict about their religion. For example in some Muslim countries women aren't given the same rights as men. It wasn't until recently that women were treated as equals in "Christian" nations, and guess what, it took a secular government to initiate and allow this to happen.

You may want to have leaders who promote Christianity, which is valid opinion. Myself, I would prefer not reverting back to the Dark Ages. Oh by the way, Hitler was a Christian... maybe not by your moral standards, unfortunately that is not how a Christian is determined.

smotpoker86 : There was absolutely no way Hitler was a christian. Christianity is about forgiveness and redemption, and living life for Jesus. In no way would Jesus have supported mass murder, nor did hitler ever have forgiveness for Jews for what they "supposedly" might have done. I wish people would stop telling me something about how my moral standards not working in judging who is a Christian. I read the Bible and look at what it says about being a Christian and apply it when determining what makes a Christian.  In answer to other parts of a post, I have nothing wrong with voting for a politician who is either secular or of another belief. There are certain morals and stances on the issues that I've seen Christian's stand on that I prefer to someone else.

Hoochman : He professed himself to be one, went to Church every week, and put all non-Christians in the camps. You may not like it, but it's historical fact. I didn't say he was a good Christian. But in his mind, he was one.

I thought this was about George Washington, now we are on the topic of Hitler Who cares what he was, if he says he was Christian then he is Christian and not anyone can take that away from him. It's HIS belief, not yours so he is entitled to be who he wants.

The devil was once an angel so why can't Hitler be Christian? Not everyone in Christianity has to be a good guy, there are plenty of bad ones around.

You can call yourself an orange... dress like one, smell like one, act like one.... but you aren't actually an orange.

The same goes for Hitler. The same goes for anyone else who claims to be something but doesn't act accordingly.

geeogree :

"You can call yourself an orange... dress like one, smell like one, act like one.... but you aren't actually an orange."

This made me lol. Quote wall...

Anyway...

I'll argue that while Hitler claims to have been a Christian, and I am in no position to say he was or wasn't, the fact of the matter is he did what HE THOUGHT was right. Even if it was definitely wrong.

The point remains he believed in what he believed in. Who is anyone to say otherwise?

legacyme3 : sorry but I can punch a hole in that logic pretty easily.



So, what you're suggesting is that killing jews is okay because he "thought" it was right?

What if I think being a pedophile is right, or stealing, or rape, or murder, or anything else that we, as "western society", generally consider either illegal or immoral? Would that somehow make it okay then? Sorry.... just because he thought something was right doesn't mean the rest of us don't have a right to say otherwise.

geeogree :

I was more referring to the "if he believes he is a Christian, who are we to say otherwise" point. Not sure if I made it clear >.>

If you thought it was right, then you'd do it. Why do pedophiles do what they do? It doesn't make it ok, but it's a way that they defend their actions.

I should note to anyone reading this, I think Hitler was a horrible person, and should have been killed in the most brutal way possible. This is coming from a pacifist.

legacyme3 : but whether or not we believe something is right doesn't make it right.... that's the point I'm trying to make. Personal belief is not the deciding factor here. Whether it be society's opinion or a higher powers I don't really care, but there is a higher governing body that decides what is right or wrong not personal belief. And to claim to be something but live in a completely opposite way does not make one what they profess to be.