Femininity can be quite good, actually. Within more of the passing days, women get much more respect and freedom than ever before. They have social rights, and the ability to act however they please. Seems quite great, right? Unfortunately, there's a problem. It's feminisim. Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful for women to have freedom in expression. The problem comes from taking advantage of that in order to start petty arguments. Lots of feminists today are clearly acting in a contradictory manner. In my opinion, feminists should tackle real problems women face, such as the wage gap, absence of maternity leave, marriage "expectations", unrealistic perceptions of "beauty", sexist advertising, and the nature of the Miss America pagaent. What do you think? Discuss.

Everyone's definition of 'petty argument' will be different. Something you, as a male, see in a specific light will be different from what a female sees or how a feminist views it. It's not fair to call anything petty because you can't see it from their point of view.

And the wage gap has been disproven. There is no wage gap from a 'equal work for equal pay' standpoint. There is certainly a difference in level of employment and career development between men and women and men control higher positions commanding more responsibility and income opportunities. That's a completely different discussion for another time.

Feminists, the ones who are fighting for gender equality, are wonderful. We should all be feminists. It means men and women are equal. The small group that takes that and twists it is the enemy. They want women to succeed at the expense of men. They believe social equality is a zero sum game and men have to lose for women to move forward. That's wrong. We can all elevate together.

It's almost like Islam. There's a tiny percentage of militant Islamic fundamentalists that believe war and violence are the only way to do Allah's work. Because of them, Donald Trump is calling a travel ban (more or less). But they don't represent the Q'ran, which, like Jesus Christ, was Muhammad walking around telling people to be nice to one another.

Feminism, in it's pure form, is outstanding. Communism sounds pretty good too until people get their hands on it and execute the idea.

Haven't seen sources on the wage gap thing... and it sure as heck still exists at my work.

But yeah... actual feminists are the ones out there fighting against gender stereotypes and wanting equality for all. We do fight against all those things that you think we should fight against... I'm not sure where you have been for the last century. But we also fight to maintain access to health care, to promote racial equality (because women of color have a whole separate battle to fight on top of being female), to promote LGBTQ equality, to fight against the idea that a man is less of a man if he shows emotion, or chooses to be a stay-at-home dad, or wants paternity leave. We fight for justice for victims of sexual abuse, regardless of gender... because rape doesn't just happen to women. And we fight to ensure that our voices are not silenced... we won the right to vote less than 100 years ago, and we have to make sure to keep fighting to prevent it from being taken away.

And yes, there are some extreme misandrists out there that go too far and think all men are bad and whatever. They are a minority, and many other feminists call them out on their behavior when encountered.

And because I need do say this... you are male, and clearly uneducated when it comes to feminists or what women actually have to deal with... so what right do you have to try to dictate what we should and should not do? We don't really have "the ability to act however we please"... we still don't get equal respect. We still don't have the same social rights. You don't know what we deal with, so do not presume. Talk and actually listen to the women around you about what they have to put up with... how they are treated by men and society... how they view feminism. It helps build understanding and mutual respect... and that is what is at the core of actual feminism.

There is a difference between equality and feminism. Let me explain. Equality is everyone is treated the same and pays the same price when they mess up. Feminism,in today's terms,is they want all the money and power,but none of the responsibilities or duties or punishments. Most feminists are very confused and very ill tempered. If they actually devoted the energy and time into improving themselves and not whining on social media or going to events like "S--twalk",they would be far better off.

Are there still problems? Yes. Are there gender gaps? Yes. But let me remind the "feminists" of what advantages they do have:

-You may work at a job of your choice. You may not think that is a big deal. But in some parts of the world,a woman's place is in the home and kitchen,being a caretaker.
-You may vote for your elected officials. Up until 1920,you did not have that right in the U.S.. In many parts of the world,they still do not have that right.
-You are allowed to be educated. Again,in some parts of the world,that is not allowed. Women are treated like second class citizens.
-You are allowed to walk in public without a male escort or wearing clothing that covers virtually everything. In some countries,you must either have a male escort and you better walk behind him as a sign of submission and you better be covered head to toe.
-You are allowed to divorce your husband. In some countries,you would be shunned or not permitted.
-You are allowed to express yourself freely. In many places,you could not do that without being arrested.
-Young women in the US are not required to register for Selective Service. Males are required to do so when they are 18. And if they do not,they are ineligible for benefits or assistance.

Maybe I am pig-headed. But you know what? Women in the US have is pretty damn good in general. Equality is good,but "feminism" is not. I personally think that "feminists" are basically the female version of the BLM.

You may commence the hate comments,now.

Oldschool777 : Let's not call it hate comments. Let's call it pointing out some logical flaws and word selection in your comments.

Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

There's your definition. It is not about dodging responsibility. It is not about money and power but no duty or punishment. I'm not sure how you arrived at that idea in the first place. Can you give me some examples of women who want money and power but no responsibility? Women you know personally?

Secondly, have of your advantages, "You may work at jobs... you vote, you're allowed to be educated, you walk in public..."

Those are basic right to be afforded all human beings. You're basically saying, "You're lucky you're not raped all the time in our culture, so you're welcome, unappreciative women."

That's a terrible attitude. And you don't probably recognize that you have it. And I have a tiny little doubt that you believe equality is really good. Do you want females and males to be exactly equal all the time?

Ghotbear1111: Maybe that was the intent originally. But as we all know,that has degenerated into what we see today as a power and money grab,without any of the work or responsibility.

As for my examples,they are all true. In some parts of the world,women are little more than property. Women are only good for childbearing and child raising in some parts of the world. I mean,if these "feminists" want to see how bad it used to be for women,they should see the US a century and a half ago.

Now are we perfect? No. Can improvements be made? Yes.

And to throw a little bit of a curve ball into the mix,there is a career where a woman earns far more than a man. Can you guess what it is...?
The answer is: Porn. That is right,the average female performer makes on average $800-$1000 for a scene and the average male performer makes $500-600. Now,that makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Women must be convinced and pleaded with to remove their clothes,whereas most guys will do it willingly.

Equality is supposed to be across the board,not in certain circumstances. There are women that will pitch an Oscar worthy performance and claim a man beat or raped her,and she is believed,even when the guy is completely innocent.

Look,I do not think that women should shut up. I am just saying that,they could have it a lot worse,and in some parts of the world,they are living that reality. Another example is in the 1950's and 1960's,a woman in the workforce had few options open to her. Now,she can be in almost any field she chooses. If she wants to be a soldier,she can. If she wants to be a scientist,she can. If she wants to be an lawyer,she can.

You may think of me what you will.

So many people mislabel feminism. They view it as some sort of ideology of female superiority when it isn't. It is about preventing gender inequality primarily by the critique of gender roles in society. It is about everyone being able to live how they wish without feeling pressured to live by a certain mould. Not forbidding people to live in accordance with the stereotypical gender roles mind you, just not having it be the norm. In doing so also tackling issues that each gender face.

 There is a certain group of radical feminists who seems to think gender inequality is strictly a women issue but they in truth make up a vocal minority. People are choosing to focus on them and ignoring the rest. Honestly I feel like most of the argument today centers around the term itself rather than disagreeing on the idea of advocating gender equality.

This feminism movement has been providing us with some good meme material lately so i think feminism is a great thing.

I personally like chill feminists whole only want equal rights and equal pay and such. What I don't like is the extremists and I really don't have to say why I dislike them.

I think that most feminists are good people who really just want equal rights. However, the feminists that we see on television and the internet are these extreme, violent, and generally mean people who think that they are being oppressed and sexually harassed at every waking moment of their lives and think that only women deserve rights. I personally think that feminism is a good thing as long as it stays on that path of equal rights for both genders.

So when did equal rights stop being called egalitarianism?

m0ssb3rg935 : That's a good question. I cannot say exactly what I heard one time but I'll try to sum it up.

So, more or less quoting someone:

Egalitarianism has a corollary with feminism but is notably more amoral legislation and objectives. For example, an egalitarian would say there should be an equal number of shelters for battered spouses available to men and women. This does not address the total numbers of battered women being more than men. Egalitarianism would say there should be equal numbers of sports teams available to both genders and would not address a distinct disinterest in the female students for having their own teams.

It's easy to say, "Okay! We got a law that says you can't hire someone based on their gender," and walk away done. We know it's a law but the law itself doesn't address the problem that still exists in our society.

Feminism takes on a more activist role and is more involved with the attitudinal change, not just the letter of the law. An egalitarian political idea could be: "Men don't need Planned Parenthood facilities, so neither should woman. That's fair."

But it wouldn't be.

Mossberg, see the difference?

It's cancer and has no place in the modern/western world, where women have equality and in fact privilege over men.
The middle east, you know places where they practice actual patriarchal methods and treat women like slaves/property, sure those places could maybe do with some feminism (thought egalitarianism is much preferred), but in the west it's completely unnecessary, always has been.

Edit to address specific points:
Ghostbear1111, considering that domestic abuse happens at an equal rate where men get abused just as much as women we do in fact need equal number of shelters for men. Considering a lot of homeless people are men and that a large portion of them are there because of abuse from their wives or from losing everything in a divorce (divorce courts are notoriously one sided in most cases giving the women more then she deserves and not caring if the man ends up homeless) one could argue that men need MORE shelters then women.
http://newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm
http://newscastmedia.com/harvard_study.htm
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020

"We should all be feminists. It means men and women are equal"
Ahahahahahahaha oh dear I dont even know where to start with that one. Let's start with the basics. Even the dictionary definition states "the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes". Feminism is for WOMEN only, it doesn't care about mens rights. Look at the white feather movement, feminists shamed men into going off to die in a war, where was the equality then?
If feminism was really about equality it would be working to remove a lot of rights women have in the west that men dont have, for example a woman can accuse a man of rape without repercussion if she's lying but a man can't even get a woman arrested for raping him because feminists had the legal definition of rape changed to be "penetration only".
So legally unless a woman uses a strapon on her victim she cant be charged with rape, it's only considered "sexual assault", a charge that carries a much lesser sentence then the crime of rape.
On the matter of crimes and charges, because of the Duluth model women arent charged to the full extent of the law, where a man will get decades of jail time for a crime a woman will be let off on probation.

Elara, there is no wage gap, it is illegal in western countries to pay anyone different wages if they have the same job, skill level and experience. I cite the Equal Pay Act for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963
If anyone is being paid less for the same work when they have the same skill, experience and training then that is illegal and they should seek legal aid.
There is however an earnings gap where a lot of women work shorter hours, do less actual work while they are at the place of business, and take time off for family, but this is a matter of choice not uneven payments.

On voting, there was no law stopping women from voting, there was a law stopping people that didnt own land from voting. This included many men as well as women. And before you say "but women couldnt own land" they could, for example see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_Women%27s_Property_Acts_in_the_United_States an act that was put into place a full 60 years before the Nineteenth Amendment, an act I might add that only allows women to vote without any responsibility needing to be shown, a privilege that men in the US dont even have unless they serve in the armed forces.

Pulling out the "you're a male, you dont know" card is low and uneducated, many men DO know what women go through because we work with them and listen to their issues. And then explain anti feminist women, or do they have "internalized misogyny"...

I'd go on but there's so much to go over and you are all working with incorrect figures and false history, propaganda spun by the mass media

The literal definition of feminism is supporting equal rights for women. It does not include anything about women being above men. If you don't support feminism, you are literally stating you think men should be above women. I am a full supporter of equal rights.

As DarkHyren pointed out, the United States passed the Equal Pay Act in 1963. But stating that there is no wage gap would be ignoring the facts. The facts are, simply, many people are breaking the law, leaving many women underpaid. You're not going to see it happen with McDonald's or Wal-Mart, but women are truthfully getting paid less amounts than men in many other businesses. The problem is that the women aren't doing anything about it. They either don't notice or don't want to complain in fear of losing respect or their job. Females need to research wage gaps and seek legal help if they are not being paid equally.

That being said, there are many issues that I have a more male-equality standpoint on. For example, the sentences for rape are much less in female convicts than in male convicts. Domestic violence from wives onto husbands is also near-ignored. I believe in full-on equality both ways. No sex should have an advantage over the other.

Also, feminist activists can be very annoying. It's good to get your word out there and spread the idea of equality and any other social beliefs you might have, but many feminists take it too far. You can see an example of this in the infamous "Hugh Mungus" meme.

DarkHyren : I will admit that there is a women/men equality issue in the middle east but its not like "They practice actual patriarchal methods and treat women like slaves/property" This basically only applies to Saudi Arabia, not to the rest of the middle east.

I know this wasn't a big part of your argument but I thought I'd point it out because it bothers me when people think the entire middle east is like Saudi Arabia.

Feminism is a very controversial issue, and a very serious one too. I believe that men and women should be paid the same amount for the same job and same hours. However, women have more freedom in the US than other countries. In some countries, women can't even have jobs without asking their husbands.

A lot of the people who comment here seem like they saw a few radical feminists and said "Yup, that's what feminism is. No need for me to educate myself on it" and have rolled with the mindset that the voice of a few (Less than 1%) radical feminists is the voice of feminism as a whole.

Hi, I'm a feminist. If you have any real questions, please feel free to ask. I can and will clear up any inquiries about feminism, as long as you have an open mind to what I say I will have an open mind to what you say as well. Yknow, equality.

BestGamer24 : Just because they have more rights than women in other countries doesn't necessarily mean they are treated equally to men. Feminism is meant for women to gain equality with me, not to be equal with women in disadvantaged situations. 

Maguc : A lot of people here seem to like saying "not all feminists" and assume those of us that are opposed to feminism havent done their research.
Handy hint, we have, you can't just point to the dictionary definition (which I might add is not about equality but about womens rights and doesnt care if women have more rights then men, otherwise feminists would fight to remove rights and privileges they have that men dont. But they wont do that) and say "this is feminism, the actions of the people that make us look bad arent REAL feminists", it doesnt fly with those of us that have done extensive research into the matter and know the policies and history of feminism.

RDay13 : That's called privilege, if a woman has all the rights (or more) that men do but don't have to have any of the responsibilities the men do that's privilege and NOT equality.

TheFadedWarrior : If anyone is being paid unfairly they need to contact legal aid, there are a lot of free organisations for women and minorities (the groups that claim they are underpaid) that will take on the case and look into it.
In a lot of cases it's found that the people claiming to be being paid less are doing less work.
But you are right that there are some that are being paid less, but that doesnt mean there is a wage gap, it means that certain employers are breaking the law and arent being reported, that's a different matter altogether.

Spicy : I'm not talking about the entire middle east but you are uneducated if you think these practices are restricted to Saudi Arabia. Any country that follows Sharia law (and there are more then one of them) restricts the movements and actions of women, a key part of Islam is that women are property and have no rights.