Throughout life, we meet lots of different people, some we like and others we do not. However, we'd probably stick around towards the ones we like, and a friendship might begin to form. If friends of opposite genders become especially acquainted, they might become lovers. Friends and lovers listen to each other, help each other out with their problems and the like. What I now ask: What truly makes a good relationship?

For me, a good relationship just entails both parties knowing what they want, and getting it.

If all you want is sex, great, if the other person knows this, and agrees, even better. Just make sure you are both happy with what you are getting out of the relationship.

Always be honest about where you are with each other.

This applies to not just "lover" relationships, but friendships, rivalries, and work relationships.

Knowing what you want, and knowing what the other person will give you.

legacyme3 :

I would have to thoroughly disagree. While every relationship should be clearly understood, I don't think that simple agreements to supply each other with sex is the best way to go about it.

Sex is far more complicated than acting as a simple need on it's own that you should have fulfilled. It's kindof like a single mom deciding that she wants to use invitro fertilization to get pregnant, and have a baby without a father involved. Even with no plans to ever bring a male figure in her life to help with the child raising, or to act as a companion to herself.

She's trying to get one part of the package, to satisfy one hormonal push. This doesn't work psychologically, or biologically. It leaves people burnt out and dissatisfied.

Likewise, people who want be in a marital relationship that is devoid of sex. (yes, those exist) Also find themselves empty and unfulfilled.

It's a full circle. Sex is connected to marriage, and likewise to the family. If you want one thing, then you will need the other. Otherwise you will find yourself incomplete or otherwise baffled to why you are so sad all of the time.

Of course people try to hide such emotions, but the still exist. The only harmony in the human body can be obtained when one looks at science, and nature for guidance.

To have a relationship purely based on sex, companionship, or even staying together just for the kids- is not healthy, and it will leave you feeling unfulfilled.


Ultrajeff :

Friendship is easy. I hang around the people that I like, for the reasons that I like them, for what we have in common, and even because of how we can help each other out. If a person has traits I cannot stand, or they cannot stand my characteristics, then obviously, there must be a change, or a parting of ways. That's how I see it.

For Marriage, or the dating process up to Marriage. People need to understand that Marriage is a complete package all on it's own, and that this package comes with commitment. Dating, or courting, as I prefer can be gaged in it's worthwilness by the following things.

1. Are you finding common values?
2. Do your personal characteristics fit and compliment one another's well?
3. Are you both mature enough people to handle the next thing?
4. Do you understand what it means to end up getting married?

A lot of it comes down to being polite. I actually kindof agree with Leggy on a few things he's said, but when it comes to sex, and the basic build up of human psychology/biology, and other things, I have to say he's wrong. It is true that relationships should be founded on. . . whatever they are founded on though.

At the same time, we can be good, and kind people too. Politeness and just doing what's right will go a long ways for anything. That's what I would say makes a good relationship.

Nice thread idea by the way. Sorry I don't post in them often. ^^'

Relationships of any kind :

Equality.
One that is against exploitation, never crossing the line of personal space and safety.

"Compromises" are confused to the point that abuse is excused as a "compromise."
Actual compromises are not a set of scales that can be "balanced out." That's just a cycle of abuse.

Honesty and being straightforward is not even "good enough."
If you're not equals, it's not right.

On3On :

Yeah! Like. . .

a boss and an employee.

A teacher and a student.

A commander and a soldier.

Or even a grandfather and child.

I couldn't possibly disagree. You have got this all figured out. Thanks for posting something so simple yet enlightening. This is doubtlessly the most important thing I have read in my entire life and the secret to restoring happiness upon the face of the earth. ^^'

What's your beef, dude? It's not making you look like the better guy here..

Anyway, the thread is clearly suggesting/aiming at the romantically or otherwise mature definition of relationships, which is what I was rambling about.

The sarcastic examples you mentioned is a whole other subject that'd be way too much to go off topic here.
If you want a fight it'd be great to make an interesting discussion out of it rather than anything else.

On3On :

I'll put it in simple context.

You made a statement:

"If you're not equals, it's not right."

This statement is simply erroneous, and I daresay naive. I am challenging it, and humorously pointing out how it really does not work out in the long run.

We need to show respect to people who are "higher" than ourselves and be willing to learn from them, rather than seeking out artificial equality, which frankly is a word I see butchered the most by people who claim to love it.

If you believe in real equality, then good. But based on the way you talked about it, and downplayed how even honesty is not good enough, I felt like you had decided to attack more traditional ideas on how society and family is ordered, when these orders exist for very good reason.

Equality is not good when it is applied in places where it is not deserving. And frankly, I see people tote the idea of "Equality" in many situations/places it does not. And at the same time, their idea of "equality" Is actually anything but.

Wasn't attacking anyone, my post was just about the subject of the thread.
Unsure of what you meant, but this may be an clear enough answer :

There is no lesser in a relationship. And no matter the title, the rank, the office, they're just a person too.

If someone is a darn great cook, they will sure get the respect of everyone on some level.
Respect happens naturally, it's why we have it, it doesn't mean we go full fan-boy and switch off our ability to criticize.
On the other side of that, people are artificially interfered with to be disorganised and unprepared, or targeted if they are young and impressionable for all sorts of reasons.

Modern day inequality is a symptom of people being confused and then given an "solution" by exploitive groups and individuals.
Relationships and communities can enable people to liberate themselves, yet both are breaking down under interference or fighting each other, like we are here, for instance.

It's not deep, pretty self explanitory. Thats where my statement is coming from.
I mean, we both care about people, that much we're sure on. No biggie. I'll think about what you've said more, for sure.

Sword legion :   How exactly do the people above us get to be there? Not because they are rightfully above us 100% of the time. Most of the reason they like being in those positions [at least in my experience] is so they can treat the rest of us like trash without suffering repercussions when they cross the line and make us murderously angry.

 I had boss that I could have easily outperformed in all management duties but because she was the boss, I had to do what she said. I spent my days there fantasizing about punching a crater in her stupid face while obeying ceaselessly because I needed a pay check. People often hold positions of authority when it would be better for all involved [including the business they are running into the ground] if they held no such position.

 I had to grapple with this in secondary school too. Just why do we accept that people have to be over us when we are all born equal with the same basic material?

 The only things that are not equal are things outside of ourselves which have nothing to do with who we really are or any inherent superiority.

 We all deserve an equal place on the earth to survive and flourish. Nothing has to be earned in God's eyes. If we can forgive these authority figures for positioning themselves over us where only God ought to be, then He will raise us most high in our lives for the ways that truly matter.


 P3


 "Respect your fellows and know that you are all deserving of my love and no person more than the other."

Sword legion :

I have to stop you right there. Never at any one point in my post did I ever state that my viewpoint was a "simple agreement to supply each other with sex" was the best way to go about it.

I think you may have read too much into a statement that was not meant to be read into.

For instance, let's say you have two consenting adults, and both profoundly, soberly agree, that all they want from the other person is sexual intercourse? That is to say, Male A and Female A are both interested in only one thing from their respective partner, and that is the plain and simple act of sex. They do not seek a romantic relationship, so feelings are mostly irrelevant in that respect.

Now let's inject Female B into the equation. Male A still only wants sexual intercourse, and no emotional connection, whereas Female B is only interested in romance, but is willing to concede sexual intercourse to acquire what she believes is a genuine romantic connection from Male A?

Which pair do you think would be happier? Male A/Female A or Male A/Female B? In the second relationship there's "love" but it's only the shell and illusion of love, and not a true indication of real feelings from at least half of the participants.

In situation A, there are no hurt feelings, because both Male A and Female A acknowledge what it is they want. If Female B is honest with her intent, and Male A is honest with his, then there is no misunderstanding, they don't have sex, and Female B/Male A aren't inundated with the stress of miscommunication, since they don't get together at all.

Sex is not all that complicated. While some do it to fertilize and have a child, many do it just for the sheer pleasure that can be derived from it. You cannot say my argument is wrong without also saying "sex for pleasure is wrong", which is a whole other can of worms to open up. My entire statement is basically "everyone should be honest with what they want from the other person". This is where happiness in a relationship comes from. By its very nature, if you do not get what you want from a relationship, you are unhappy. Even if you get what you want, you might not be happy, if there was more to it that you were not expecting.

If you have a relationship based purely on sex, and that is all you want from said relationship (you being both parties), then I don't think there's a problem. I never injected "kids" into the relationship in the first place, because kids are not required to have a relationship.

legacyme3 :   Oddly enough Lego my Ego, one could say there is a fundamental flaw in your argument.

 When sex becomes present in a situation when commitment is not, someone is being hurt whether they emotionally acknowledge the wound or not.

 I learned in my research that special hormones are released during everything from a kiss to an orgasm. Think about this. These specialized hormones influence a person's mind to love and trust the person they experience these things with. When no commitment of exclusivity is made, either party in the union may go to other beds to experience the same things.

 Honesty is good like you say. That does not at all mean no one is experiencing emotional strife, even though the partners were up front about not being exclusive. It feels like a betrayal that those "special / trust feeling" emotions from such an experience are too be found absolutely anywhere with anyone.

 Again, when such partners do not build a long lasting relationship [even if they were never planning to stay together but still had such experiences - kiss---orgasm, etc], a powerful sense of loss still occurs whenever they remember that person or meet them again and think about what they used to do together.

 Solution :  Commit first. Then experience the amorous physical affections that equal the level of commitment achieved / genuine (read : not hormonal) trust earned. That keeps things simple. Do not set yourself up for the fall.

 Committing one's own body is much more serious then we are led to believe by sex scenes in the films ( i.e. zero agreed upon commitments made ) that hypnotize / program us for what we believe to be acceptable behavior. Just because we see Kevin Spacey do it (adultery), doesn't mean anyone ought to. Think about whether the person you want to be physical with will stick around before you allow the very body of yourself to become invested. Getting those chemically achieved emotional investments at a physical level ripped away at any point is going to leave anyone at a terrible loss whether they realize that or not.
 
 Jake. I'm sorry. You're just plain wrong. Your cavalier attitude is going to hurt you in the long run. It would definitely be worse if you hurt others in the same way. Think about the things you want for your life.  Do you want to be loved ?   Perhaps considered special by anyone romantically at all ?

 I wish you the best. Take care of yourself, hey ?

 P3

Postman3 :

Not all positions of authority are gain rightly or even merited upon proper cause. I know the feeling, and honestly, I have been under some people I would not wish to work with at all if I could avoid it.

I would agree with you on the importance of chastity and emotional commitment in a relationship heavily.

On3On :

Simply put, when I look at how humans best function with one another in society, the only place I see equality being of use, is when we are all judged by the same moral standard, as applied to our unique situations. And as I'm certain you are aware, this is not how society is always ran. Certainly some of our political candidates are given many free passes and favors that low ranking people would never be allowed to obtain.

That's where inequality irritates me.

On the other hand, I see society functioning best when people are given higher and lower ranks based on their natural, genetic, or cultivated abilities. There is a reason that Generals stand behind a line or ordinary soldiers, for if they died first. . . many others would die even faster shortly after.

Even in families the adults make the decisions for their children since they are still too young to know what's best for them, and instincts alone will not raise up the next generation. A great deal of premeditated thought and education is required for true serenity and prosperity. Otherwise humans would become more like animals, unable to read, write or maintain anything.


legacyme3 :

I still disagree with the idea.

Sex is not something you can separate so easily. It is a biological, and a psychological fact that your mind will try to create emotional bonds with the person which you have sex with. Family making instincts kick in, and even if suppressed, it will remain upon the core and you will still have a wider issue to deal with. The fact that humans cannot simply separate sexual function from the desire to have a meaningful emotional relationship and even a family- at some point.

Human sex is very complicated, if not one of the most complicated forms of human interactions. I believe that if you studied the chemical, emotional, and mental complex that goes on during it you would find yourself at a different point of view. Especially the permanent effects it will have on the two people who participate in it- some scientists even suggest that a female's body will never lose the DNA of the male she does choose to have sex with.

It's not something repeatable. It's heavily interlinked with the rest of a person's being and emotional unity. When you have sex with people, it will start to create powerful bonds, especially the first time it's done.

When I look at functioning and happy members of society, I see those who believe in chastity, and show respect for their sexual partners.

When I look as dysfunctional members who have sex for pleasure, and who do not have families of their own, I see mostly people who act like they have a chip on their shoulder, and people who act as though they have a reason to carry a great sense of guilt. Their souls greatly lacking in a sense of self worth. People may deny this basic side effect of having sex with someone, and indeed, some people can hamper it's effects, because we as human beings are adaptable, but it is not a natural thing, nor a healthy characteristic. For society or otherwise.

It's easy to pick out the truly fulfilled individuals in life vs the individuals who are not, and based on my understanding, this is what I see.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but it is not something with which I agree. Given the topic is about relationships, I believe it applies to this thread perfectly. I am willing to discuss it here. I've watched guys I've worked with have "causal" ever since I joined the work force.

I see what it does. Ultimately, nobody is satisfied. Holes are still gaping, and they have to fight the feelings that they have for people who are satisfying their sexual desires. It's not pretty, and I would warn people against thinking differently. If not just for their own sake, but even the people whom they claim they wish to "help" sexually, are actually only being further dragged down.

I’m just going to speak on my behalf; what I need in a good relationship.. I need honesty, trust, and some level of dependability/consistency.

Be honest with me- tell me what you want out of this relationship whether friends, family, or romantic. If that changes, tell me.
Don’t hide things from me that could hinder our relationship.
That honesty will help me trust you. I usually have a hard time giving trust back once I find out about a lie but, we’re humans and that’s
bound to happen so, I do try to work on giving it back but, so far that has not happened. I can’t say I’ve ever trusted someone again.
Dependability- I need to know I can depend or count on you being there- is not like I need money or benefits. I mean, I need to believe
that you as my friend will be someone I could count on when I am in a bad situation whether physically or emotionally- why? Because that’s what makes you significant and different from a stranger.

I go above and beyond for my friends and so, I’d like to know I can too count on them. Same in a relationship, be dependable and consistent don’t pop in and out of my life as you please.

As some posts before me seemed to talk about this, I’ll add my input on how I feel about sex-only relationships- they may seem to work at
first but, at one point someone develops feelings. 

I think that as time passes, relationships evolve and to have set agreements is unrealistic because your needs and wants will change
over time depending on the circumstances and difficulties you face so, it is necessary to understand that at a certain point you will both have to revisit your relationship and express any new needs and desires and establish if this relationship will provide for it or not.

To me it is almost like a contract, there comes a time when you need to reexamine, reevaluate, and decide what your current YOU needs and plan accordingly.

jlove92 :

Exactly, here's the crux of the viewpoint:

"I think that as time passes, relationships evolve and to have set agreements is unrealistic because your needs and wants will change."

This is why most relationships built around sex end up failing. It's not because relationships built on sex are lesser or disingenious, it's because the wants and needs of one or both parties change, and neither party is honest, or willing to change in order to make the relationship work.

I've never been in a sex-only relationship, because personally speaking, I need a level of romanticism in what I do.

A good relationship, to me, is when both parties are ACTUALLY truly happy. Not some fake happy.

There is no need for specifics. Sex, romanticism, whatever dude. If you're actually happy and the other person is actually happy then what's stopping it from being a "good relationship"? If outside problems are being influenced and made worse by your relationship then you aren't truly happy.

Maybe that's just the opinion of a teenager but I've had a lot more problematic relationships than I'd like to admit and I think I kinda know my way around. Maybe not completely, but definitely somewhat.

Also, what's with everyone disliking each other's posts? Calm down, sheesh. We're all allowed to have opinions.

I think this discussion has taken a somewhat less appropriate direction... Given the forum, it's acceptable to discuss some of the more mature aspects of the subject to a certain degree, but let's all employ a little more discretion and try not to be quite as aggressive or graphic. I also don't think anyone's ideas are being attacked here, so there's no need to be so defensive.

m0ssb3rg935 : Sorry. 

Minuano
m0ssb3rg935 :

Yeah, no need to dislike. But it's an option, and since David made it an option. . . people are going to use it. It's quite a pity if you ask me.


But, that's not going to change is it? Even though me and Zlinqx said for ages that it hampered debates.

You are allowed to discuss sex in this forum. That's why it's 13+. It just has to be discussed tastefully- although I myself don't know how far before it stops being "family friendly"

Shoot, do the 13+ Forums even apply by the family friendly rules? The normal posting rules are still visible on the left hand side.

Sword legion : I was mostly just saying that this thread probably shouldn't start to read like a bad romance novel or anything, but after reading back through my post, it didn't really translate right when I typed it all down. I also meant to stress that the debate probably would've been better done through PMs since the rules thread pretty much prohibits it here, but I'm having a little bit of an off day as far as putting things into words goes.

I think the whole dislike thing could be tweaked some, but I doubt it'll be a high priority any time soon. I think we're kind of expected to not be so juvenile, anyway.

A good relationship is when you meet someone that treats you well, as you do the same to them. Someone that is fun to be with, you can talk to about anything, someone that you love, someone that enjoys what you like, for the most part. It's tough to find that perfect relationship, but it can happen. I've seen it happen to friends of mine. I myself haven't had the best of luck, it's life, and it can be upsetting, but I feel that I am still young, and I got 10 to 15 years to settle down and maybe start a family. I know a lot of people my age, already have families, some have 3 kids already, which is fine, but I am waiting for that right time to do the whole family/kids thing.