Monster,you have your own deal in the Netherlands,so I cannot expect you to understand my feelings on this.

I mean, Yeah, I dont find it especially important to recite it everyday? As long as you know it, live by it and able to say it at any point of time when asked. However, it does anger me that a lot of people grew up doing it every single day. I cant say that I did since I have been homeschooled since 4th grade and I've never had to recite it until the day I graduated, which was back in July (And I did pretty good at remembering, I would like to say). And certain kids wont have to do it like everyone that has gone to a brick and mortar school (A physical school, in a building). It sounds rediculous. Plus, its really the only place where kids LEARN it. Unless the kid is really into sports, then maybe they would learn it from there, but it should be learned.

Fyredove,first off,when you first learn anything,you learn by doing what the person says. Later,you can decide for yourself if you like it. But at the same time,one should be loyal to their country,not the people that run it. That is why the Pledge is so important. It instills that base value and that is why you do it every day. So that you learn it,and believe in it.

Like I said,when we do the Pledge,we are saluting the country as the ideal country,not the one we have presently. A country where you are guaranteed free schooling until you graduate high school. A country where you can express yourself and you are not jailed or killed for it. (within reason,of course) A country where you are allowed to defend yourself or your property with lethal force if need be. (Even though we have a weak President and idiots that want to steadily destroy that right.) A country that has stood for 240 years against any foe that dared to make us their victims.

Maybe I am old,maybe I am stuck in my ways. But I always remember three things.

1. If you do not stand for something,you will fall for anything.

2. A house divided cannot stand.

3. The price of peace and freedom is eternal vigilance.

Oldschool777: we can't do anything about congress, 24 states have a person called "Electors" who will pick someone else. So there might be a good chance that Liberation party will never win or Trump will never lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90RajY2nrgk

oh and this one is how even non-elector states will try to cheat the system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd5rul6EdF0

Well, you don't about that and are happy to be under control by the government, just like North Korea. There are however certain things you do not know.


"we are saluting the country as the ideal country" - Ya no, everyone doesn't like America. Japan and China are sick of being watched by them. Middle east countries are confused on what on why you even in the land, heck America even allowed people to get capture by isis or tiaban. EU only does business with us, nothing really special. Russia has a love-hate with the US, maybe because of all the spying, the two countries keep doing to each other. Africa is left hanging dry, they could really use US troops there, you know. Mexico and Brazil ask many times for USA help on drug gangs but no dice. Canada is fine but would like to openly go from the USA and back.

This is saying like the ideal peace is about not having wars. No that's not real peace, people will still suffer under that ideal world.

"A country where you are guaranteed free schooling" - it's not free if taxpayers pay for it, hiring teachers is not cheap, they also have lives and need food to live.

"you can express yourself and you are not jailed or killed for it" - people had been jailed and killed for it. also, website policies like Reddit's make expression a one way banned of your account, also possible permabanned from the site.

"A country where you are allowed to defend yourself or your property with lethal force if need be" - yes I'm sure the people who were playing Pokemon were criminals.

"A country that has stood for 240 years against any foe that dared to make us their victims" - it's  238, you are two years off. oh, America didn't make any foe. it started with broken promised you had with British, after your freedom, many of your ancestors kill native Americans (the real ones), undeclare war on newly build France, a few years later America had a civil war, once that was over, you kill Mexico people for land, Canada lost land too, stayed out of WWI, declare Hawaii as your 50th state with the people saying no, enter WWII, enter a meanless war known as Vietnam, again enter into one in Korea, made Russia mad in the cold war, after all that someone thought it was a good idea to fight in Iran or middle eastern and to this day it still going.

The USA stands as a bully in the world, it has fought almost every country.

"1. If you do not stand for something,you will fall for anything." - you believe in any things that are not true. all the things you see on tv could have been different, there was never one answer to things. 

"2. A house divided cannot stand."- congress, state supreme court, supreme court, and the people are very divided. Do you understand why Trump is not even kicked out? Do you understand why Hillery is not arrested? This is all because we the people do not have power.

"3. The price of peace and freedom is eternal vigilance." - No, America hasn't supported peace. Else North and South Korea would have been at war with each other.

The ideal country you believe in is very selfish, entering into wars, not trusting anyone, and straight out lying to the people. You need to rethink all of this.

As a non American, the whole pledge of allegiance seems really weird, creepy, and cult-like. Indoctrination at its finest indeed.
We have something similar in Mexico, and everyone thought that was really weird and most schools stopped doing that (Which gave way to an increase in the school's quality in general).
I don't think the actual words are cult-ish. They are rather patriotic, the core of the foundation of America (One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all), But being forced to say it every single morning... That's when you stop paying attention to the words and what they mean. It's like if we listened to the national anthem every single morning rather than just special occasions.

Saying it's un-American, un-patriotic, or an "insult to the troops" is disgusting. It's literally brainwashing.

Plus a large group of kids chanting anything is creepy in itself.

Master,what in the bloody hell are you talking about? Talk about going out into left field. But if you wish to be a sheep,be my guest.

You are a damned idiot.

We are saluting the ideal. As in the way we should be.

Do the parents pay directly for the education? No.

That is when people did in the wrong way. You say it in a respectful manner,not in the manner befitting swine.

Yes,they were,they trespassed onto private property. Plus they were stupid.

History lesson moron,the Declaration of Independence was written in 1 776. It is still in force. It is the year 2016.

 2016
-1776
--------
   240

Please,do us all a favor...do not breed.

Why are you being disrespectful to others trying to provide their opinions? This is the debate form is it not, calling everyone who disagrees with you a world ruining millennials is pretty childish. You honestly just sound like the definition of a conservative republican and that's a respectable party and all but there wouldn't be a point in politics if it was all black and white.
Everyone who has replied to has made very good points to you that you just dismiss and and insult.

I am just pointing out his flaws. Fine,report me.

Oldschool777 : I agree with Cap'n here. There's a difference between pointing out flaws and just being outright rude.
"If you wish to be sheep"
"You are a damned idiot."
"History lesson moron"
"Please, do us all a favor...do not breed"

And this is just from your latest response. You're attacking the person directly, not trying to debate. You can state your opinion without being mean and without all those hurtful comments, dude.

What is this tactic everyone does when they're acting out, they say to be reported. I'm not trying to report you bub, I just don't think you should've posted this in the debate form if you weren't interested in hearing others opinions on it. 
Also for future reference if you're replying to someone you should tag them so they can see it.

As I said,bub,I was correcting him.

I keep forgetting that I can't be direct or blunt here.

Oldschool777 : Like I said, there's a big difference between being direct and rude.

Being direct would be stating that you aren't fond of the person. Like it's direct and blunt of me to say I am not very fond of you or your opinions.

Being rude is saying the person is a "Damned idiot" and insulting the person outright.

Fun fact: here is how the pledge of allegiance used to be done https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
If this doesn't convince you that it's pure indoctrination, nothing will. A country that (nearly) impose such a thing is actually unworthy of its citizens' allegiance. Besides, considering how little freedom there is left in this country, "with liberty and justice for all" should be struck down for a more honest "with blind obedience from everyone."

Fine...believe what you want. I give up on you people. Most of you make me sick.

OldSchool is right to voice his opinions. Banning him for being passionate is ridiculous. The moderators have shamed themselves.

Txgangsta : I don't know if he was banned for this thread or anything, but did you read any of his replys by any chance? There's a good chance it's because of the insults not the opinion lol.
 No one is shaming his opinion, but when others are talking about theirs or offer an article to look over he's been lashing out at anyone opposing him. 

Saying the pledge has been optional to me... honestly, there's no harm in doing it since it's just stand and recite the words for 30 seconds every morning. Honestly, I don't really care about it much at all. It's just stand and recite words. If someone else doesn't want to do it, don't force them. I once didn't stand up to do it, and I wasn't forced to it. 

Txgansta: It's perfectly okay to voice your opinion, but there's a difference between having a different opinion and insulting others for disagreeing. 

Txgangsta : He has insulted and attacked people on multiple occasions.

"If you wish to be sheep"
"You are a damned idiot."
"History lesson moron"

I'm pretty sure a few mods share his opinion as well, albeit less extreme

Someone insulted yall on the internet?!?!?!? Oh no!!!! Whatever shall we do! Here, I'll insult you too:

You're thin-skinned.

Will I now be banned too?

Txgangsta : Trust me, i don't care. People tell me to kill myself on the internet on a regular basis.

i'm used to it. I insult people myself on the internet too. Not on here though, as this place actually has rules. And whether you like them or not, you have to obey them.

I understand that it might sound p****-ish, but people have to obey the rules.