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Why do some fundamentalists think Catholics aren't Christians?

 

11-20-15 03:56 PM
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I'm a Catholic. I'm well aware of the differences of Catholics and Protestants. But why do some protestants say we're not Christians? Don't we believe fundamentally the same thing?
I'm a Catholic. I'm well aware of the differences of Catholics and Protestants. But why do some protestants say we're not Christians? Don't we believe fundamentally the same thing?
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11-20-15 10:50 PM
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FalcoDude : I think it's possibly because some people think Catholics worship Mary instead of Jesus and to be classified as a Christian, you need to worship Jesus. You can't blame them though because some Catholics do pray to Mary which is kinda silly.
FalcoDude : I think it's possibly because some people think Catholics worship Mary instead of Jesus and to be classified as a Christian, you need to worship Jesus. You can't blame them though because some Catholics do pray to Mary which is kinda silly.
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11-20-15 10:59 PM
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Hello I can answer that. (These are not my views just views that I have heard and know some people who believe these) I am a Christian so to answer your question. 

One reason is some Christians see the Catholic Church as idolatry such as kneeing before the Virgin Mary. They see that as making Mary equal to god. This idea has its roots during the 17th century and has been passed on to generations. This idea is still often preached to congregations today 

Second reason- Preachers such as Jack Chick (writes chick tracks and owns Chicks publishing) and others. Chick in the mid 20th century preached that Catholicism was a continuation of the Babylon pagan Empire. people like him often think that the Catholic Church is the great Harlot mentioned in the Bible that will from the New World Order and raise an army. These people believe the Pope will be the Anti Christ of Anti Christs. Lot of people still hold this view to this very day. 

This idea has its roots in America this idea is what some believe Chick and preachers like him based the idea off of.  During the mid 19th century in America preachers preached that Rome was secretly trying to control American Affairs. Some even believed that US politicians were having to answer to Rome. Some also blamed the Civil war on the Catholic Church. Thus Catholics were treated bad. Hate groups like the KKK also spread anti Catholic ideas. This also carried on into the 20th Century. There are numerous political posters and cartoons that picture America fighting against Rome and the Pope.  

So these are the biggest reasons why there is a lot of backlash toward Catholics. 

To know if you are a Christian or not this is what one must do according to the Gospels and Bible 

Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Is Lord and repent then you shall be saved. 

John 14: 6 I am the only way into heaven nobody come into the kingdom except through me. 

So no matter what denomination. The core belief in true Christians is believing in Jesus as your personal lord and savior, repenting of your sins, and living according to his word. 

I hope this answers your question 
Hello I can answer that. (These are not my views just views that I have heard and know some people who believe these) I am a Christian so to answer your question. 

One reason is some Christians see the Catholic Church as idolatry such as kneeing before the Virgin Mary. They see that as making Mary equal to god. This idea has its roots during the 17th century and has been passed on to generations. This idea is still often preached to congregations today 

Second reason- Preachers such as Jack Chick (writes chick tracks and owns Chicks publishing) and others. Chick in the mid 20th century preached that Catholicism was a continuation of the Babylon pagan Empire. people like him often think that the Catholic Church is the great Harlot mentioned in the Bible that will from the New World Order and raise an army. These people believe the Pope will be the Anti Christ of Anti Christs. Lot of people still hold this view to this very day. 

This idea has its roots in America this idea is what some believe Chick and preachers like him based the idea off of.  During the mid 19th century in America preachers preached that Rome was secretly trying to control American Affairs. Some even believed that US politicians were having to answer to Rome. Some also blamed the Civil war on the Catholic Church. Thus Catholics were treated bad. Hate groups like the KKK also spread anti Catholic ideas. This also carried on into the 20th Century. There are numerous political posters and cartoons that picture America fighting against Rome and the Pope.  

So these are the biggest reasons why there is a lot of backlash toward Catholics. 

To know if you are a Christian or not this is what one must do according to the Gospels and Bible 

Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Is Lord and repent then you shall be saved. 

John 14: 6 I am the only way into heaven nobody come into the kingdom except through me. 

So no matter what denomination. The core belief in true Christians is believing in Jesus as your personal lord and savior, repenting of your sins, and living according to his word. 

I hope this answers your question 
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11-21-15 12:06 PM
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Davideo7 : tornadocam: I encourage you to watch this video, It answers all of your questions/statements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6OwlfNwc9A

". In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth."

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc4.htm
Davideo7 : tornadocam: I encourage you to watch this video, It answers all of your questions/statements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6OwlfNwc9A

". In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth."

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc4.htm
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11-21-15 04:02 PM
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FalcoDude : First, let's get our terms correctly. Fundamentalist does not equal protestants. There may be protestants that are fundamentalists, but not all of them are equal to each other.

You want to go back to why Protestants protest the Catholic church in the first place (The Lutherans, the Reformers, the baptists, etc) They protested against the many corruptions in both theology and practices in the Catholic church. Some of these corrupt has since been changed in the Council of Trent, but there are still beliefs that are unbiblical and contradictory to what scripture states. Some issues include indulgences, consubstantiation in Holy Communion, the worship of Mary, saved through faith and good works, etc.

One thing that you don't understand is that prayer is an act of worship (look up any dictionary for the definiton of "pray"), and the Bible explicitly makes it clear that you cannot worship anyone else but God. The verses that you mentioned had no mention that those prayers were prayed to the saints and angels or pray in their name, making it an invalid interpretation. It simply says that they offer those prayers to God. It simply says that they were handling those prayers. Speaking of angels, they know they are not to be worshiped, and warned people not to worship them. (Revelation 22:8-9. An angel told the Apostle John NOT to kneel and worship him) Furthermore, Jesus gave us the example of praying to God, and has stated that we are to pray, to give thanks, to plead to God. Never towards anyone else, not to Moses, or David, or Daniel, but directly to God.

I will add in the end that there are probably Catholics that are saved, but they would probably not be considered good Catholics, because they probably don't follow the main beliefs in the Catholic church and there are beliefs by the Catholic church that are considered antibiblical and it should be understood as such with our understanding of scripture now. These differences are not differences of opinion and are huge issues that make them really consider to be deviated from basics of Christian belief.
FalcoDude : First, let's get our terms correctly. Fundamentalist does not equal protestants. There may be protestants that are fundamentalists, but not all of them are equal to each other.

You want to go back to why Protestants protest the Catholic church in the first place (The Lutherans, the Reformers, the baptists, etc) They protested against the many corruptions in both theology and practices in the Catholic church. Some of these corrupt has since been changed in the Council of Trent, but there are still beliefs that are unbiblical and contradictory to what scripture states. Some issues include indulgences, consubstantiation in Holy Communion, the worship of Mary, saved through faith and good works, etc.

One thing that you don't understand is that prayer is an act of worship (look up any dictionary for the definiton of "pray"), and the Bible explicitly makes it clear that you cannot worship anyone else but God. The verses that you mentioned had no mention that those prayers were prayed to the saints and angels or pray in their name, making it an invalid interpretation. It simply says that they offer those prayers to God. It simply says that they were handling those prayers. Speaking of angels, they know they are not to be worshiped, and warned people not to worship them. (Revelation 22:8-9. An angel told the Apostle John NOT to kneel and worship him) Furthermore, Jesus gave us the example of praying to God, and has stated that we are to pray, to give thanks, to plead to God. Never towards anyone else, not to Moses, or David, or Daniel, but directly to God.

I will add in the end that there are probably Catholics that are saved, but they would probably not be considered good Catholics, because they probably don't follow the main beliefs in the Catholic church and there are beliefs by the Catholic church that are considered antibiblical and it should be understood as such with our understanding of scripture now. These differences are not differences of opinion and are huge issues that make them really consider to be deviated from basics of Christian belief.
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(edited by play4fun on 11-21-15 04:04 PM)    

11-21-15 05:50 PM
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play4fun : The definition of the word prayer does not contain worship.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prayer
Indulgences haven't been around since the middle ages. Luke 22 clearly states that it really is Jesus' real, literal body. Not just a symbol. James 2:24"You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." Matthew 19:16-17 "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Works and faith are necessary to get into heaven. Catholics don't worship Mary, either.
play4fun : The definition of the word prayer does not contain worship.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prayer
Indulgences haven't been around since the middle ages. Luke 22 clearly states that it really is Jesus' real, literal body. Not just a symbol. James 2:24"You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." Matthew 19:16-17 "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Works and faith are necessary to get into heaven. Catholics don't worship Mary, either.
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(edited by FalcoDude on 11-21-15 05:50 PM)    

11-22-15 02:29 PM
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FalcoDude : Check the definition again. Merriam-Webster explicitly used prayer to be towards "God or a god." The act of prayer is exclusively used towards a deity. If you check all the other dictionaries, they all write that prayer is towards "God or an object of worship" (dictionary.com, Oxford, Cambridge, etc) It is interesting to say that Catholics don't worship Mary, because the confusion here for some people is that praying to Mary is an act of idolatry. It is praying to someone that is a creation of God and think that either she has power over or answer prayers that makes it idolatry, especially when the Bible explicitly says, "pray to God" and that Jesus is the mediator between God and Man.

Indulgences were already addressed before and that was probably one of the few things that the Catholic church changed about their position

Just because the text said "this is my body" does not mean that He literally means that it is. You want to check both the context and cross reference towards other verses in scripture in order to determine that. For one thing, if this style of proclamation is considered literal, then all the other things that Jesus said would be considered literal, which they are not and obviously are metaphors (Jesus said "I am the vine" (John 15) and "I am the door" (John 10) and "I am the Living Bread", which whoever eats "shall not hunger"(John 6).) Furthermore, if you read the next line, the Last Supper said that they are to do so "in remembrance of Him."

As for faith and works, this is a topic of imputed righteousness versus infused righteousness. It would go against the rest of scripture to say that we are saved through works:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"

(Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5).

Notice that for both passages say that God saved us NOT because of works, but by God's grace.

If you read that passage of James as a whole, you would notice that James stated that "faith without works is dead". He is saying that the faith that some people claim is not real when there are no signs of faith-based action. He doesn't say that good works would help someone to be saved, but that the works are evidence of whether one has faith. This cooperates with what Jesus said that "good tree bear good fruit, bad tree bear bad fruit, and a good tree doesn't bear bad fruit. Notice that He doesn't say the fruit make the tree good or bad, but that you look at the fruit itself to see if the tree is good or bad. The actions and fruits are support of the saving faith that we have. That is why Jesus "If you love me, keep my commandments." 

It's interesting that you mentioned Jesus' conversation with the rich young ruler, because that passage is exactly the reason why no one can be saved through works. Read the entire section (Mark 10). The rich young ruler ended up walking away sad, because Jesus told him to sell all his possessions and then follow Him. It was to the point that the rest of the people asked "Then who can be saved?" because Jesus said that it is hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God because of their love of money. His response was simply this: "with Man its impossible but with God, all things are possible." It is through God's power that people can be saved, not by Man.
FalcoDude : Check the definition again. Merriam-Webster explicitly used prayer to be towards "God or a god." The act of prayer is exclusively used towards a deity. If you check all the other dictionaries, they all write that prayer is towards "God or an object of worship" (dictionary.com, Oxford, Cambridge, etc) It is interesting to say that Catholics don't worship Mary, because the confusion here for some people is that praying to Mary is an act of idolatry. It is praying to someone that is a creation of God and think that either she has power over or answer prayers that makes it idolatry, especially when the Bible explicitly says, "pray to God" and that Jesus is the mediator between God and Man.

Indulgences were already addressed before and that was probably one of the few things that the Catholic church changed about their position

Just because the text said "this is my body" does not mean that He literally means that it is. You want to check both the context and cross reference towards other verses in scripture in order to determine that. For one thing, if this style of proclamation is considered literal, then all the other things that Jesus said would be considered literal, which they are not and obviously are metaphors (Jesus said "I am the vine" (John 15) and "I am the door" (John 10) and "I am the Living Bread", which whoever eats "shall not hunger"(John 6).) Furthermore, if you read the next line, the Last Supper said that they are to do so "in remembrance of Him."

As for faith and works, this is a topic of imputed righteousness versus infused righteousness. It would go against the rest of scripture to say that we are saved through works:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

"he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,"

(Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5).

Notice that for both passages say that God saved us NOT because of works, but by God's grace.

If you read that passage of James as a whole, you would notice that James stated that "faith without works is dead". He is saying that the faith that some people claim is not real when there are no signs of faith-based action. He doesn't say that good works would help someone to be saved, but that the works are evidence of whether one has faith. This cooperates with what Jesus said that "good tree bear good fruit, bad tree bear bad fruit, and a good tree doesn't bear bad fruit. Notice that He doesn't say the fruit make the tree good or bad, but that you look at the fruit itself to see if the tree is good or bad. The actions and fruits are support of the saving faith that we have. That is why Jesus "If you love me, keep my commandments." 

It's interesting that you mentioned Jesus' conversation with the rich young ruler, because that passage is exactly the reason why no one can be saved through works. Read the entire section (Mark 10). The rich young ruler ended up walking away sad, because Jesus told him to sell all his possessions and then follow Him. It was to the point that the rest of the people asked "Then who can be saved?" because Jesus said that it is hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God because of their love of money. His response was simply this: "with Man its impossible but with God, all things are possible." It is through God's power that people can be saved, not by Man.
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FalcoDude :

If you believe in the holy trinity, you are Christians.

Hey, it was way back when we just were not down with all this stuff about giving money to pay your way out of  your sins and you know, burning people for translating the bible into the common tongue. I think we are all past that.

I don't think you prefer virgin Mary over Jesus. You guys just pray to her. And we kinda think worshiping dead body parts is still kinda odd and unnecessary, let alone all the fancy smanshy stuff your church has but its all good.

Our way is just trying to keep it simple and more close to the bible. We have tried atleast. In many, many, many ways.
FalcoDude :

If you believe in the holy trinity, you are Christians.

Hey, it was way back when we just were not down with all this stuff about giving money to pay your way out of  your sins and you know, burning people for translating the bible into the common tongue. I think we are all past that.

I don't think you prefer virgin Mary over Jesus. You guys just pray to her. And we kinda think worshiping dead body parts is still kinda odd and unnecessary, let alone all the fancy smanshy stuff your church has but its all good.

Our way is just trying to keep it simple and more close to the bible. We have tried atleast. In many, many, many ways.
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12-19-15 02:41 AM
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FalcoDude :

I am a protestant that went to Catholic school. I bet I'll be the most helpful here.

So in Latin America, there are no such thing as Protestants. It doesn't exist. You are either 1) Catholic, 2) Christian, or 3) atheist. There is nothing else. So, "Catholics are not Christians" is just like saying "Catholics are not Protestants" a lot of the time.

However, much of the above is also true. Protestants remain protesting against Rome because they reject the Roman understanding of adoration of the saints. They see your prayers of intercession as manipulation of God's will or faith in things that are not God. Both of these options are blasphemy, and would remove you from being classified as monotheists. They lump you in the same as the Mormons.

But disregarding all of this, all that is needed is a quick overview of the average catholic life. They go to confession, say the Rosary, and leave. When they lose an object they like, they pray to St. Anthony. When they are battling something, they pray to Michael the Archangel. When their animals are sick, they pray to saint Francis of Assisi. They go to church midway through the homily and leave right after receiving Eucharist. Their daily lives are not Christ centered, but instead their family tradition, church tradition, and ethical tradition revolves more around the saints they like. This appears very, very pagan. Very, very, very pagan.

Technically, these are all examples of bad catholics. Catholics are supposed to be Christocentric. Mary is only immaculately conceived because Christ redeemed her prior to her birth. The saints can only distribute grace because of the abundance of Christ. Confession and forgiveness are products of Christ. The mass is for the sake of the uplifting of the Church through the preparation and partaking of the Eucharist. Those are the real Catholic doctrines. But there are SO MANY bad catholics out there, and it is so widely tolerated by the Roman hierarchy, that is dramatically easier to just say Roman Catholics are not Christian.

I only understand that they are because of my years of proximity to proper Catholic instruction.
FalcoDude :

I am a protestant that went to Catholic school. I bet I'll be the most helpful here.

So in Latin America, there are no such thing as Protestants. It doesn't exist. You are either 1) Catholic, 2) Christian, or 3) atheist. There is nothing else. So, "Catholics are not Christians" is just like saying "Catholics are not Protestants" a lot of the time.

However, much of the above is also true. Protestants remain protesting against Rome because they reject the Roman understanding of adoration of the saints. They see your prayers of intercession as manipulation of God's will or faith in things that are not God. Both of these options are blasphemy, and would remove you from being classified as monotheists. They lump you in the same as the Mormons.

But disregarding all of this, all that is needed is a quick overview of the average catholic life. They go to confession, say the Rosary, and leave. When they lose an object they like, they pray to St. Anthony. When they are battling something, they pray to Michael the Archangel. When their animals are sick, they pray to saint Francis of Assisi. They go to church midway through the homily and leave right after receiving Eucharist. Their daily lives are not Christ centered, but instead their family tradition, church tradition, and ethical tradition revolves more around the saints they like. This appears very, very pagan. Very, very, very pagan.

Technically, these are all examples of bad catholics. Catholics are supposed to be Christocentric. Mary is only immaculately conceived because Christ redeemed her prior to her birth. The saints can only distribute grace because of the abundance of Christ. Confession and forgiveness are products of Christ. The mass is for the sake of the uplifting of the Church through the preparation and partaking of the Eucharist. Those are the real Catholic doctrines. But there are SO MANY bad catholics out there, and it is so widely tolerated by the Roman hierarchy, that is dramatically easier to just say Roman Catholics are not Christian.

I only understand that they are because of my years of proximity to proper Catholic instruction.
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