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03-28-24 05:18 PM

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Should an employer be able to fire an employee "just because"?

 

02-25-15 07:09 PM
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I had this discussion in school the other day and I was wondering what you guys think about it.

Should an employer need a reason to fire an employee?

I say that an employer has the right to fire any of his/her employees whenever they want regardless of whether or not they have a valid reason. It is their business and if they decide that they no longer want someone working for them then they should have to keep paying that person. You business probably wouldn't be very successful if you fired employees left and right, but you should have the right to do what you want.

What do you think?
I had this discussion in school the other day and I was wondering what you guys think about it.

Should an employer need a reason to fire an employee?

I say that an employer has the right to fire any of his/her employees whenever they want regardless of whether or not they have a valid reason. It is their business and if they decide that they no longer want someone working for them then they should have to keep paying that person. You business probably wouldn't be very successful if you fired employees left and right, but you should have the right to do what you want.

What do you think?
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02-25-15 07:12 PM
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tgags123 : I live in a state where you can fire them with no reason. Personally I don't mind it.

I'm pretty much indifferent about the whole thing, but if I get fired for no reason then oh well. I get fired.
tgags123 : I live in a state where you can fire them with no reason. Personally I don't mind it.

I'm pretty much indifferent about the whole thing, but if I get fired for no reason then oh well. I get fired.
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02-25-15 07:29 PM
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tgags123 : Well, I do not like the thoughts that I could get fired "just because" but almost every application for a job makes it clear that employment is "at will" by either the employer or the employee. Really, people don't typically fire anyone without some sort of reason, so I don't really worry about it. Here are some typical reasons that you might get fired for.

1. The boss just plain doesn't like. I'm okay with that. Why would I want to work for someone that does not like me?
2. They don't like your work. Well, good enough. If I can't do good by a company, I ought not be working there.
3. Can't afford to have you anymore. Not much can be done about that. Oh well.

Really, I haven't known any firings to occur just because, and I already know that I can be fired at any point in time. After all, he is the boss, he should be able to do what he wants...well, as long as he isn't being corrupt.
tgags123 : Well, I do not like the thoughts that I could get fired "just because" but almost every application for a job makes it clear that employment is "at will" by either the employer or the employee. Really, people don't typically fire anyone without some sort of reason, so I don't really worry about it. Here are some typical reasons that you might get fired for.

1. The boss just plain doesn't like. I'm okay with that. Why would I want to work for someone that does not like me?
2. They don't like your work. Well, good enough. If I can't do good by a company, I ought not be working there.
3. Can't afford to have you anymore. Not much can be done about that. Oh well.

Really, I haven't known any firings to occur just because, and I already know that I can be fired at any point in time. After all, he is the boss, he should be able to do what he wants...well, as long as he isn't being corrupt.
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02-25-15 07:46 PM
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Yes, yes, and on top of that, HECK YES!!! FREE COUNTRY PEOPLE!!!!!!!! If I think you looked at my wife funny and I don't like it, then I can fire you. If you didn't put the sign in juuust the right spot, then it is my constitutional right to fire you. If I look at my boss's wife funny and HE doesn't like it, he has every right to fire me. If I don't put the sign in juuust the right spot, then he has the right to fire me. I have the right to ask why, he has the right to say none of your business. Now, this easily tips over into the argument of "Can I refuse service to anyone?" In, which case, another yes. Constitutionally, you can say, "Nope, I won't do flowers for you, why? Because your gay. Sorry!" Not saying that gay people are bad, I'm saying that the shop owner has the right to do that. Don't you agree?
Yes, yes, and on top of that, HECK YES!!! FREE COUNTRY PEOPLE!!!!!!!! If I think you looked at my wife funny and I don't like it, then I can fire you. If you didn't put the sign in juuust the right spot, then it is my constitutional right to fire you. If I look at my boss's wife funny and HE doesn't like it, he has every right to fire me. If I don't put the sign in juuust the right spot, then he has the right to fire me. I have the right to ask why, he has the right to say none of your business. Now, this easily tips over into the argument of "Can I refuse service to anyone?" In, which case, another yes. Constitutionally, you can say, "Nope, I won't do flowers for you, why? Because your gay. Sorry!" Not saying that gay people are bad, I'm saying that the shop owner has the right to do that. Don't you agree?
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02-25-15 07:48 PM
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Super Mega Man 568 : I definitely agree. The right to refuse service is another thread that I plan to make in the future by the way.
Super Mega Man 568 : I definitely agree. The right to refuse service is another thread that I plan to make in the future by the way.
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02-25-15 07:49 PM
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tgags123 : Tell me when it happens, I have a lot to say about the matter.
tgags123 : Tell me when it happens, I have a lot to say about the matter.
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02-25-15 08:57 PM
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Well, at first glance I agree. It is "their" company.

Then again, the government has instituted a bunch of laws against discrimination.
These laws would hold little sway if people could fire an employee for any reason.

We might not have as much discrimination now (we still have some), but that does not mean we're immune to it and can be carefree. (Just because the storm has passed, do we throw away all our rain gear?)

Minimum-wage workers could also be exploited (more so than they are now) by their employers, in order to keep their jobs. This could be sexual exploitation, or forcing them to cover up illegal company activities.

As for refusing service. How quickly we forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

I don't think it was a particularly good period of our history when African Americans wouldn't be served because of their skin color.
Letting people refuse service to anyone would lead to the same thing, except this time it would be against homosexuals. It's not much different.
Well, at first glance I agree. It is "their" company.

Then again, the government has instituted a bunch of laws against discrimination.
These laws would hold little sway if people could fire an employee for any reason.

We might not have as much discrimination now (we still have some), but that does not mean we're immune to it and can be carefree. (Just because the storm has passed, do we throw away all our rain gear?)

Minimum-wage workers could also be exploited (more so than they are now) by their employers, in order to keep their jobs. This could be sexual exploitation, or forcing them to cover up illegal company activities.

As for refusing service. How quickly we forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

I don't think it was a particularly good period of our history when African Americans wouldn't be served because of their skin color.
Letting people refuse service to anyone would lead to the same thing, except this time it would be against homosexuals. It's not much different.
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02-25-15 09:16 PM
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EideticMemory : It is still their business however. What will happen is that word would get out that they fire/don't hire blacks because they are racist and then the business will go out of business. But if the employer wants to drive himself out of business he has the right to. I am not saying that I think it's right to reject someone due to skin color, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc., but if it is yours business you should have the right too.

I'll go more in depth about the refusal of service in another thread but I'll just say now that if you own your own business you have the right to serve and not serve whoever you want. If a person is being rude you have the right not to serve them. If a person smells really bad and is stinking up the store (or whatever business it is) then you have the right not to serve them. If a person is wearing a turban and you are afraid that he will blow up your business because you believe that all Muslims are evil then you have a right not to serve him as well. Just like I stated in the previous paragraph, word will spread and people will take their business elsewhere.

I'm not sure what exploitation of workers has to do with this to be honest. The employer would still be able to exploit them the same ways, since now he could just say he fired him because he wasn't productive. Really this thread is more about what is right and wrong, since making it legal or illegal to fire employees for no reason won't make a difference since he can just say he wasn't satisfied with the work the employee was doing and that would be a valid reason.
EideticMemory : It is still their business however. What will happen is that word would get out that they fire/don't hire blacks because they are racist and then the business will go out of business. But if the employer wants to drive himself out of business he has the right to. I am not saying that I think it's right to reject someone due to skin color, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc., but if it is yours business you should have the right too.

I'll go more in depth about the refusal of service in another thread but I'll just say now that if you own your own business you have the right to serve and not serve whoever you want. If a person is being rude you have the right not to serve them. If a person smells really bad and is stinking up the store (or whatever business it is) then you have the right not to serve them. If a person is wearing a turban and you are afraid that he will blow up your business because you believe that all Muslims are evil then you have a right not to serve him as well. Just like I stated in the previous paragraph, word will spread and people will take their business elsewhere.

I'm not sure what exploitation of workers has to do with this to be honest. The employer would still be able to exploit them the same ways, since now he could just say he fired him because he wasn't productive. Really this thread is more about what is right and wrong, since making it legal or illegal to fire employees for no reason won't make a difference since he can just say he wasn't satisfied with the work the employee was doing and that would be a valid reason.
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02-25-15 09:47 PM
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tgags123 :

I wish we could trust the public to drive these places out of business. I actually think the businesses would thrive, especially here in the south. They'd be opportunistic, and if the majority of people are against a minority, they'd follow suit. Homosexuals would be refused work in whole towns, if not whole states here. People would be more likely to boycott the businesses that don't discriminate. Basically we would go back a few decades in terms of social progress.

I wouldn't even put it past businesses here to discriminate when it comes to religion. Many do discriminate against religion already, but at least if it's caught these companies face legal punishments.

Exploitation of workers is not completely relevant, you're right.

So I think it really comes down to how much we trust the public to do what's right on their own. I used to trust the public, but I don't trust it now. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
tgags123 :

I wish we could trust the public to drive these places out of business. I actually think the businesses would thrive, especially here in the south. They'd be opportunistic, and if the majority of people are against a minority, they'd follow suit. Homosexuals would be refused work in whole towns, if not whole states here. People would be more likely to boycott the businesses that don't discriminate. Basically we would go back a few decades in terms of social progress.

I wouldn't even put it past businesses here to discriminate when it comes to religion. Many do discriminate against religion already, but at least if it's caught these companies face legal punishments.

Exploitation of workers is not completely relevant, you're right.

So I think it really comes down to how much we trust the public to do what's right on their own. I used to trust the public, but I don't trust it now. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
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(edited by EideticMemory on 02-25-15 10:07 PM)     Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Zlinqx,

02-25-15 11:58 PM
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no one should be allowed to just fire anyone for any reason it is highly unethical and can create to much stress in a workplace and if they ever try it just hand them the court papers seeing how much they have pay you without doing any work then they will think about how much less they had to pay you to do a job
no one should be allowed to just fire anyone for any reason it is highly unethical and can create to much stress in a workplace and if they ever try it just hand them the court papers seeing how much they have pay you without doing any work then they will think about how much less they had to pay you to do a job
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02-26-15 12:03 AM
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tgags123 :   " Really this thread is more about what is right and wrong..."

In that case it's wrong just to fire someone for the sake of firing them.  If the person does not contribute to the company and had fair warning then it's absolutely ok to fire a person.  With unions these days the employee almost has more power than the employer.  You will open up a world of hurt for yourself if you fire a person for no reason.  There has to be a proper valid reason for letting someone go and that reason has got to do with something that directly affects your business.
tgags123 :   " Really this thread is more about what is right and wrong..."

In that case it's wrong just to fire someone for the sake of firing them.  If the person does not contribute to the company and had fair warning then it's absolutely ok to fire a person.  With unions these days the employee almost has more power than the employer.  You will open up a world of hurt for yourself if you fire a person for no reason.  There has to be a proper valid reason for letting someone go and that reason has got to do with something that directly affects your business.
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02-26-15 06:13 AM
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daffy_duck1 : That's infringing the employer's right to choose, is it not? You are saying that you want to force the employer to pay a worker regardless of whether or not he wants the worker to work for him? THAT sounds highly unethical to me.

SoL@R : Let me try to rephrase that. It hard to find the right words. How about this. "This thread is really more hypothetical since an employer can just make up a reason to fire them if he wanted to." Better?

I agree, as far as not being jerk goes, it is wrong to fire someone for no reason. But you have every right to do it. What I disagree with most about your post is the last sentence, that "that reason has got to do with something that directly affects your business". What if one of your employees sleeps with your wife. You're telling me you have to continue to pay him and let him keep his job? Or what if you know that he is a thug and has been beating his own wife? You obviously don't want a guy like that working for you, but you're telling me that you can't fire him because your reason doesn't directly affect your business?
daffy_duck1 : That's infringing the employer's right to choose, is it not? You are saying that you want to force the employer to pay a worker regardless of whether or not he wants the worker to work for him? THAT sounds highly unethical to me.

SoL@R : Let me try to rephrase that. It hard to find the right words. How about this. "This thread is really more hypothetical since an employer can just make up a reason to fire them if he wanted to." Better?

I agree, as far as not being jerk goes, it is wrong to fire someone for no reason. But you have every right to do it. What I disagree with most about your post is the last sentence, that "that reason has got to do with something that directly affects your business". What if one of your employees sleeps with your wife. You're telling me you have to continue to pay him and let him keep his job? Or what if you know that he is a thug and has been beating his own wife? You obviously don't want a guy like that working for you, but you're telling me that you can't fire him because your reason doesn't directly affect your business?
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02-26-15 06:45 AM
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well if you under any sort of employment contract and your boss chooses to end it just for no reason you are left without any income can lead to serious financial difficulties that may take years to recover from so I don't think just firing someone is ethical in any way you either need to give a preset amount of notice so other means of employment can be found by mutual consent to end the job or have a very good valid reason for firing someone never just because you can
well if you under any sort of employment contract and your boss chooses to end it just for no reason you are left without any income can lead to serious financial difficulties that may take years to recover from so I don't think just firing someone is ethical in any way you either need to give a preset amount of notice so other means of employment can be found by mutual consent to end the job or have a very good valid reason for firing someone never just because you can
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I support the owner's right to fire for any reason, even if it's just because he feels like it.

The employee doesn't own the business, the employer does.

If you want to join a business where you won't get fired for a stupid reason, sign a contract that says it won't happen, or some other kind of paper.

Now, if you fire someone for a poor reason, I think that society would already give a bad enough backlash without the government having a say put in it. We shouldn't forget property rights.
I support the owner's right to fire for any reason, even if it's just because he feels like it.

The employee doesn't own the business, the employer does.

If you want to join a business where you won't get fired for a stupid reason, sign a contract that says it won't happen, or some other kind of paper.

Now, if you fire someone for a poor reason, I think that society would already give a bad enough backlash without the government having a say put in it. We shouldn't forget property rights.
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02-26-15 11:56 AM
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the place i work at reserves the right to terminate employment at any time with out warning or reason they state it clearly in on the first day had to sign a paper about it and everything.

it doesn't scare me though because if you do get fired for no reason you can most likely collect unemployment checks and most employers don't want to pay unemployment so they find legitimate reasons to fire you.
the place i work at reserves the right to terminate employment at any time with out warning or reason they state it clearly in on the first day had to sign a paper about it and everything.

it doesn't scare me though because if you do get fired for no reason you can most likely collect unemployment checks and most employers don't want to pay unemployment so they find legitimate reasons to fire you.
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Of course they should. A job is not a right so the employer can fire anyone at will, no matter what governments say.

However, acting so whimingly will very likely backfire. By firing people for arbitrary reason the employer will see mass protest through the social media, which will make him mend its ways if it's strong enough. Coors changed its gay-hostile policies because of the massive boycott the LGBT community did in protest. It didn't seem to have been effective of Chick Fil-A, probably because some people
do like the restaurant's activism.

Should I ever be fired for reasons other than incompetence, I will use every tribune available to bring down the employer and show him that he fired the wrong person.
Of course they should. A job is not a right so the employer can fire anyone at will, no matter what governments say.

However, acting so whimingly will very likely backfire. By firing people for arbitrary reason the employer will see mass protest through the social media, which will make him mend its ways if it's strong enough. Coors changed its gay-hostile policies because of the massive boycott the LGBT community did in protest. It didn't seem to have been effective of Chick Fil-A, probably because some people
do like the restaurant's activism.

Should I ever be fired for reasons other than incompetence, I will use every tribune available to bring down the employer and show him that he fired the wrong person.
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03-17-15 05:51 PM
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This is why we have the unions, so no. If the worker is incompetent and doesn't know his donkey from an elbow, then sure. You should have the right to fire him or her. But in the end of the day, the workers should not be treated as some expandable work force who should slave for some menial wage when the company's profits could feed the owner or owners a million times more.

There should be a real dialogue between the workers and the company they work for, for the benefits of both of them.  At least. And the unions should also be straight forward democratic and against corruption within themselves. That is the only way we can ever create a decent society without class struggle. Otherwise, when there is nothing left to eat, the rich not will not only be "soaked". They will be eaten too. Is all I am saying.

I personally boycott every company who is against the unions. And sure, if they fire people for being gay too but luckily the local labour laws are pretty strict about these things.

So if any of y`all is a blue collar worker and you keep voting some billionarie people in suits thinking they give a rats donkey about you, I dont get it. You have all been fooled. But then again. If you have a rich and a powerful daddy or are one. Yeah, wink wink, I get it.
This is why we have the unions, so no. If the worker is incompetent and doesn't know his donkey from an elbow, then sure. You should have the right to fire him or her. But in the end of the day, the workers should not be treated as some expandable work force who should slave for some menial wage when the company's profits could feed the owner or owners a million times more.

There should be a real dialogue between the workers and the company they work for, for the benefits of both of them.  At least. And the unions should also be straight forward democratic and against corruption within themselves. That is the only way we can ever create a decent society without class struggle. Otherwise, when there is nothing left to eat, the rich not will not only be "soaked". They will be eaten too. Is all I am saying.

I personally boycott every company who is against the unions. And sure, if they fire people for being gay too but luckily the local labour laws are pretty strict about these things.

So if any of y`all is a blue collar worker and you keep voting some billionarie people in suits thinking they give a rats donkey about you, I dont get it. You have all been fooled. But then again. If you have a rich and a powerful daddy or are one. Yeah, wink wink, I get it.
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03-29-15 04:32 AM
baileyface544 is Offline
| ID: 1151126 | 172 Words

baileyface544
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I like the system we have here.
Yes you can fire someone without reason, however, you'll almost certainly be paying unemployment for that person (unless they choose not to file) if you don't have a valid reason for termination (with previous documentation).

I agree with this.
You suddenly get fired one day with no provocation, even though your work has been exemplary, and that could put you in a tight spot.
 If you are unprepared, you're screwed.
Yes it's the employers business, but you are entering into a contract when you start working there.
Meaning...you have rights as well.
Not a ton, granted, but the right to not be put into a situation where you can't pay rent because of some persons whim.

Added:
That said, if you have documentation of write ups where they have been reprimanded for not doing their job, and notified they will be terminated if this continues...by all means. Fire them. No compensation whatsoever. They aren't holding up their end of the deal, and they were warned.
I like the system we have here.
Yes you can fire someone without reason, however, you'll almost certainly be paying unemployment for that person (unless they choose not to file) if you don't have a valid reason for termination (with previous documentation).

I agree with this.
You suddenly get fired one day with no provocation, even though your work has been exemplary, and that could put you in a tight spot.
 If you are unprepared, you're screwed.
Yes it's the employers business, but you are entering into a contract when you start working there.
Meaning...you have rights as well.
Not a ton, granted, but the right to not be put into a situation where you can't pay rent because of some persons whim.

Added:
That said, if you have documentation of write ups where they have been reprimanded for not doing their job, and notified they will be terminated if this continues...by all means. Fire them. No compensation whatsoever. They aren't holding up their end of the deal, and they were warned.
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Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 06-17-14
Location: Houston, TX
Last Post: 1162 days
Last Active: 403 days

(edited by baileyface544 on 03-29-15 04:36 AM)    

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