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Where did all the races of the world come from?
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Origin of the races
11-17-14 01:19 AM
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thephantombrain: Singelli: As promised, although it took a bit of time, I've finally brought myself to complete this thread. This was created in response to this question from thephantombrain in the thread "Did fish survive the Genesis Flood?" So where did all the "races" of the world come from? This is another one of those creation-related questions that starts with a false assumption. In this case, the assumption is there are different human races, but there is actually only one. Genetically speaking, all of humanity is one race. A race is a biological subspecies which has genetically transmittable anatomical traits that distinguish it from other races. Thanks to genetic research, we now know that humans across the globe are 99.8% genetically identical. Most of differing 0.2% has to do with gender and personalities. Physical differences involve only 0.012% of a person's genes. Even with the variations in skin color and facial features, humans have only one race. Now that we've hopefully cleared that up, we can move to the next part. The next part will prove difficult for some since it's recorded in the Bible and many today believe it's a fictional book. Now if you fall into the skeptic group, (and I say this respectfully) I will probably have to prove to you that the Bible is indeed the authoritative, trustworthy Word of God first before I can continue. For the sake of time, I'm not going to do that now. Don't worry, I am busy working on another thread that covers the topic. Unfortunately there will still be some that will claim, even if the spoon is stuck in their mouth, "there is no spoon". That aside, let's continue... The Bible records that all men are descendants of the first created man Adam, and the line of all human ancestry passes through Noah. Only Noah, his sons, and their wives survived the flood which destroyed all other men living at that time (Genesis 7:21), and radically altered the world environment. Now again, this would be a problem for you if you do not believe that there was a global flood. There are some skeptics who believe that it was only a local flood, but there are problems with this point of view which I have already addressed in this post. Let me just back up a little and put it this way. Does the Bible teach that all of humanity has descended from Noah's three sons? The answer depends upon how one sees the extent of the flood. If the Flood were universal in scope and destroyed all of humanity, we must then assume everyone descended from the three sons of Noah. Does the Bible require us to believe that all of humanity was destroyed in the Flood? If so, then how are we to understand the distinct characteristics that the races took on? Some local Flood theorists feel that the Bible does not force us to assume that all of the races have descended from Noah's three sons. Bernard Ramm who was a Baptist theologian and apologist within the broad Evangelical tradition, wrote in his book, The Christian View of Science and the scripture, that the Table of Nations (found in Genesis 10) gave no hint of any Negroid or Mongoloid peoples and that the "effort to derive the races of the entire world from Noah's sons of the Table of Nations is not necessary from a Biblical standpoint..." In their book The Genesis Flood Whitcomb and Morris (American young earth creationists) consider this argument from the "silence" of the Bible. "Since the tenth chapter of Genesis doesn't claim to speak of races at all but rather of nations, families, and languages, it would seem rash indeed to insist that the ancestors of the Negroid and Mongoloid peoples are not included in this chapter." It seems that the Bible does call for the destruction of all humanity by the Flood. There are many passages in both Testaments that emphasize that only Noah and his family were spared by the Flood. 2 Peter 2:5 says, "...did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly" The purpose of the Flood was to destroy sinful humanity, but if only a part of the human race had been destroyed, it would have defeated the objective of the Flood. Also, the covenant that God made with Noah and future humanity would have been meaningless if only a part of the human race were involved. So, biblical evidence seems to argue for the total destruction of all humanity, except for the eight people in the ark. From this we can derive that all the "races" originated from Noah's three sons and their wives. As for the matter of the development of the different characteristics among people, R. Laird Harris wrote that it is not necessary to take on the assumption, as some do, that the three sons were black, yellow and white. If they were so, what were their wives? We could rather say that in these six people were all the genes which have separated out into the modern races. Shem may have had the genes for kinky hair and yellow skin, Ham for white skin and Mongoloid eyes etc. We would have to say that the genes were all there whether in evidence in the body characteristics or not. (Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, Vol. 7, No. 3 Sept. 1955, p. 52) So, within the genes of the three sons of Noah, as well as their wives, we find the basic characteristics that led to the eventual development and distinction among the races. Furthermore, there are three basic mechanisms that have brought about the differences among humans: 1 - Natural 2 - Cultural preference 3 - Small isolated populations 1. NATURAL Let me just first say that Natural I don't like doing this, but I am going to quote the next part from scientist, Walter Brown, from his book - In The Beginning. He describes all three mechanisms very clearly, so mods, please ignore the word count. Nature 2. CULTURAL PREFERENCE Continuing to quote... This takes the form of likes (as in mate Likes. The old saying that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder probably plays a major role in explaining the so-called racial characteristics In other words, a person's cultural upbringing appears to influence mate Humans also have prejudices - some people more than others. Prejudices based upon physical appearances have led to wars, genocide, forced segregation, and voluntary isolation. . . 3. SMALL ISOLATED POPULATIONS And lastly... A population of people (or any other form of life) has a large set of genetic characteristics. If a few members of this population move to an isolated region, such as an island, they will in general have a different and smaller set of genetic characteristics than the entire population. As a result, subsequent generations on that island will have different traits than the original population... There are at least four genes that determine skin color, not just one. Nevertheless there are thousands of traits each of which might cluster in an isolated geographic region if small groups broke off from the larger population. Thus specific characteristics can easily arise as they did when the eight survivors of the flood and their descendants eventually responded to God's command to spread out and repopulate the earth. From the listing of the descendants of Noah given in Genesis 10-11, we can see how the early migration patterns began. Shem's immediate descendants stayed generally near Ararat (which is in eastern Turkey) or migrated eastward. Ham's descendants migrated southward, while Japheth's descendants migrated northward. Undoubtedly, there were many other occasions where small groups colonized isolated regions and thus allowed their unique genetic characteristics to be expressed in subsequent generations... So to sum it all up. According to Biblical evidence, the Flood in Noah's day was universal as far as humanity is concerned. If this was indeed the case, all of humanity descended from Noah and his family. The differences among humans can be explained by natural I hope this answered your (thephantombrain) question to some extent ![]() EDIT: Summon failed again... Singelli: As promised, although it took a bit of time, I've finally brought myself to complete this thread. This was created in response to this question from thephantombrain in the thread "Did fish survive the Genesis Flood?" So where did all the "races" of the world come from? This is another one of those creation-related questions that starts with a false assumption. In this case, the assumption is there are different human races, but there is actually only one. Genetically speaking, all of humanity is one race. A race is a biological subspecies which has genetically transmittable anatomical traits that distinguish it from other races. Thanks to genetic research, we now know that humans across the globe are 99.8% genetically identical. Most of differing 0.2% has to do with gender and personalities. Physical differences involve only 0.012% of a person's genes. Even with the variations in skin color and facial features, humans have only one race. Now that we've hopefully cleared that up, we can move to the next part. The next part will prove difficult for some since it's recorded in the Bible and many today believe it's a fictional book. Now if you fall into the skeptic group, (and I say this respectfully) I will probably have to prove to you that the Bible is indeed the authoritative, trustworthy Word of God first before I can continue. For the sake of time, I'm not going to do that now. Don't worry, I am busy working on another thread that covers the topic. Unfortunately there will still be some that will claim, even if the spoon is stuck in their mouth, "there is no spoon". That aside, let's continue... The Bible records that all men are descendants of the first created man Adam, and the line of all human ancestry passes through Noah. Only Noah, his sons, and their wives survived the flood which destroyed all other men living at that time (Genesis 7:21), and radically altered the world environment. Now again, this would be a problem for you if you do not believe that there was a global flood. There are some skeptics who believe that it was only a local flood, but there are problems with this point of view which I have already addressed in this post. Let me just back up a little and put it this way. Does the Bible teach that all of humanity has descended from Noah's three sons? The answer depends upon how one sees the extent of the flood. If the Flood were universal in scope and destroyed all of humanity, we must then assume everyone descended from the three sons of Noah. Does the Bible require us to believe that all of humanity was destroyed in the Flood? If so, then how are we to understand the distinct characteristics that the races took on? Some local Flood theorists feel that the Bible does not force us to assume that all of the races have descended from Noah's three sons. Bernard Ramm who was a Baptist theologian and apologist within the broad Evangelical tradition, wrote in his book, The Christian View of Science and the scripture, that the Table of Nations (found in Genesis 10) gave no hint of any Negroid or Mongoloid peoples and that the "effort to derive the races of the entire world from Noah's sons of the Table of Nations is not necessary from a Biblical standpoint..." In their book The Genesis Flood Whitcomb and Morris (American young earth creationists) consider this argument from the "silence" of the Bible. "Since the tenth chapter of Genesis doesn't claim to speak of races at all but rather of nations, families, and languages, it would seem rash indeed to insist that the ancestors of the Negroid and Mongoloid peoples are not included in this chapter." It seems that the Bible does call for the destruction of all humanity by the Flood. There are many passages in both Testaments that emphasize that only Noah and his family were spared by the Flood. 2 Peter 2:5 says, "...did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly" The purpose of the Flood was to destroy sinful humanity, but if only a part of the human race had been destroyed, it would have defeated the objective of the Flood. Also, the covenant that God made with Noah and future humanity would have been meaningless if only a part of the human race were involved. So, biblical evidence seems to argue for the total destruction of all humanity, except for the eight people in the ark. From this we can derive that all the "races" originated from Noah's three sons and their wives. As for the matter of the development of the different characteristics among people, R. Laird Harris wrote that it is not necessary to take on the assumption, as some do, that the three sons were black, yellow and white. If they were so, what were their wives? We could rather say that in these six people were all the genes which have separated out into the modern races. Shem may have had the genes for kinky hair and yellow skin, Ham for white skin and Mongoloid eyes etc. We would have to say that the genes were all there whether in evidence in the body characteristics or not. (Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, Vol. 7, No. 3 Sept. 1955, p. 52) So, within the genes of the three sons of Noah, as well as their wives, we find the basic characteristics that led to the eventual development and distinction among the races. Furthermore, there are three basic mechanisms that have brought about the differences among humans: 1 - Natural 2 - Cultural preference 3 - Small isolated populations 1. NATURAL Let me just first say that Natural I don't like doing this, but I am going to quote the next part from scientist, Walter Brown, from his book - In The Beginning. He describes all three mechanisms very clearly, so mods, please ignore the word count. Nature 2. CULTURAL PREFERENCE Continuing to quote... This takes the form of likes (as in mate Likes. The old saying that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder probably plays a major role in explaining the so-called racial characteristics In other words, a person's cultural upbringing appears to influence mate Humans also have prejudices - some people more than others. Prejudices based upon physical appearances have led to wars, genocide, forced segregation, and voluntary isolation. . . 3. SMALL ISOLATED POPULATIONS And lastly... A population of people (or any other form of life) has a large set of genetic characteristics. If a few members of this population move to an isolated region, such as an island, they will in general have a different and smaller set of genetic characteristics than the entire population. As a result, subsequent generations on that island will have different traits than the original population... There are at least four genes that determine skin color, not just one. Nevertheless there are thousands of traits each of which might cluster in an isolated geographic region if small groups broke off from the larger population. Thus specific characteristics can easily arise as they did when the eight survivors of the flood and their descendants eventually responded to God's command to spread out and repopulate the earth. From the listing of the descendants of Noah given in Genesis 10-11, we can see how the early migration patterns began. Shem's immediate descendants stayed generally near Ararat (which is in eastern Turkey) or migrated eastward. Ham's descendants migrated southward, while Japheth's descendants migrated northward. Undoubtedly, there were many other occasions where small groups colonized isolated regions and thus allowed their unique genetic characteristics to be expressed in subsequent generations... So to sum it all up. According to Biblical evidence, the Flood in Noah's day was universal as far as humanity is concerned. If this was indeed the case, all of humanity descended from Noah and his family. The differences among humans can be explained by natural I hope this answered your (thephantombrain) question to some extent ![]() EDIT: Summon failed again... |
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(edited by SoL@R on 11-17-14 01:24 AM) Post Rating: 3 Liked By: Singelli, Sword Legion, thephantombrain,
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thephantombrain :
thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantompants: thephantombrain : thephantombrain : Here, did that work? ![]() Nice Thread SoL@R: I appreciate the time you put into these things. Pretty neat actually. thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantombrain : thephantompants: thephantombrain : thephantombrain : Here, did that work? ![]() Nice Thread SoL@R: I appreciate the time you put into these things. Pretty neat actually. |
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11-17-14 01:36 PM
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Sword legion : I think he got it ![]() ![]() |
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This was a great read! I really appreciate your research on this and I find all of the ideas to be entirely plausible. How long ago do theologians estimate that the flood occurred? That bit of information seems to be necessary to this conversation because it seems as though it would take a long time for the traits to become what they are today. This analysis helps me more than you know. People with more skepticism than myself or with ulterior motives might have all sorts of snide remarks for this explanation but I have none. I will do nothing to dissuade others from faith and try to avoid persuading others to abandon their morals by any example that I may or may not set. Well done SoL@R. Sword legion : Thanks for the summons. (Yeah, I got it.) Sincerely, thephantompants ![]() This analysis helps me more than you know. People with more skepticism than myself or with ulterior motives might have all sorts of snide remarks for this explanation but I have none. I will do nothing to dissuade others from faith and try to avoid persuading others to abandon their morals by any example that I may or may not set. Well done SoL@R. Sword legion : Thanks for the summons. (Yeah, I got it.) Sincerely, thephantompants ![]() |
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(edited by thephantombrain on 11-18-14 08:55 PM) Post Rating: 1 Liked By: Singelli,
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thephantombrain : You can thank my sources for all the info ![]() ![]() Of course the Bible does not say explicitly anywhere that the earth is 6000 years old. If it did, then it would be out of date the following year and one would expect that an almighty God who possess all knowledge in the universe, would not make that kind of mistake . What God did is give a starting point or “point of birth” for the creation of earth. If you know when someone was born, you can easily calculate their age at any point in time, right? So, according to Genesis 1 in the Bible, the earth was created on the first day of creation. So doing a rough calculation: Adam was created on day 6. If you take into account all the genealogies from Adam and Abraham using the Masoretic Hebrew text (where most of the English translations came from) of Genesis 5 and 11 and add up all the dates, we get about 2000 years. Apparently most Christians and secular scholars agree that Abraham lived 2000 B.C., that is about 4000 years ago. So, Adam to Abraham (2000 years) + Abraham to now (4000 years) = 6000 years. Two of the most popular works that calculated and arrived at this date, was by Dr. Floyd Nolan James (The Chronology of the Old Testament, A.D. 1993) and Archbishop James Ussher (The Annals of the World, A.D. 1658). They were not the only ones and Jones listed several chronologists who calculated the age of the earth based on the Bible who’s calculations ranged from 5501 to 3836 B.C. (remember to add the 2000 years A.D. – that is up to now). The amazing thing is that these calculations were not only done by people studying the Bible, but there are also EXTRA-biblical calculations, done meticulously by many historians for the Age of the Earth where more or less the same figure of 6000 years has been calculated. Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible (Peadoby, MA: Hendrickson, 1996) lists William Hales’s accumulation of dates of creation from many cultures. Their dates of only thousands of years are good support for the biblical date of about 6000 years, but not for billions of years. Just a quick side note. If you take into account that it was a global flood that covered the highest mountains plus another 20 feet (15 cubits - Genesis 7:20), imagine the cataclysmic effect the pressure and turbulence of such a mass of water must have had on the surface of the earth. Also remember that the Flood did not have to cover the present Earth, but it did have to cover the pre-Flood Earth and the Bible teaches that the Flood fully restructured the earth. 2 Peter 3:6 - by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. The earth today was radically altered by that global event. It must have accomplished abundant geologic work - eroding sediments here, redepositing them there, pushing up continents, elevating plateaus etc. Today even mountain ranges rise high above the sea. Mt. Everest and the Himalayan range, along with the Alps, the Rockies, the Appalachians, the Andes, and most of the world's other mountains are composed of ocean-bottom sediments, full of marine fossils laid down by the Flood. Mt. Everest itself has clam fossils at its summit. These rock layers cover an extensive area, including much of Asia. They give every indication of resulting from cataclysmic water processes. These are the kinds of deposits we would expect to result from the worldwide, world-destroying Flood of Noah's day. At the end of the Flood, after thick sequences of sediments had accumulated, the Indian subcontinent evidently collided with Asia, crumpling the sediments into mountains. Today they stand as giants—folded and fractured layers of ocean-bottom sediments at high elevations. Noah's flood did not cover the Himalayan mountains, it probably formed them... ![]() ![]() Of course the Bible does not say explicitly anywhere that the earth is 6000 years old. If it did, then it would be out of date the following year and one would expect that an almighty God who possess all knowledge in the universe, would not make that kind of mistake . What God did is give a starting point or “point of birth” for the creation of earth. If you know when someone was born, you can easily calculate their age at any point in time, right? So, according to Genesis 1 in the Bible, the earth was created on the first day of creation. So doing a rough calculation: Adam was created on day 6. If you take into account all the genealogies from Adam and Abraham using the Masoretic Hebrew text (where most of the English translations came from) of Genesis 5 and 11 and add up all the dates, we get about 2000 years. Apparently most Christians and secular scholars agree that Abraham lived 2000 B.C., that is about 4000 years ago. So, Adam to Abraham (2000 years) + Abraham to now (4000 years) = 6000 years. Two of the most popular works that calculated and arrived at this date, was by Dr. Floyd Nolan James (The Chronology of the Old Testament, A.D. 1993) and Archbishop James Ussher (The Annals of the World, A.D. 1658). They were not the only ones and Jones listed several chronologists who calculated the age of the earth based on the Bible who’s calculations ranged from 5501 to 3836 B.C. (remember to add the 2000 years A.D. – that is up to now). The amazing thing is that these calculations were not only done by people studying the Bible, but there are also EXTRA-biblical calculations, done meticulously by many historians for the Age of the Earth where more or less the same figure of 6000 years has been calculated. Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible (Peadoby, MA: Hendrickson, 1996) lists William Hales’s accumulation of dates of creation from many cultures. Their dates of only thousands of years are good support for the biblical date of about 6000 years, but not for billions of years. Just a quick side note. If you take into account that it was a global flood that covered the highest mountains plus another 20 feet (15 cubits - Genesis 7:20), imagine the cataclysmic effect the pressure and turbulence of such a mass of water must have had on the surface of the earth. Also remember that the Flood did not have to cover the present Earth, but it did have to cover the pre-Flood Earth and the Bible teaches that the Flood fully restructured the earth. 2 Peter 3:6 - by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. The earth today was radically altered by that global event. It must have accomplished abundant geologic work - eroding sediments here, redepositing them there, pushing up continents, elevating plateaus etc. Today even mountain ranges rise high above the sea. Mt. Everest and the Himalayan range, along with the Alps, the Rockies, the Appalachians, the Andes, and most of the world's other mountains are composed of ocean-bottom sediments, full of marine fossils laid down by the Flood. Mt. Everest itself has clam fossils at its summit. These rock layers cover an extensive area, including much of Asia. They give every indication of resulting from cataclysmic water processes. These are the kinds of deposits we would expect to result from the worldwide, world-destroying Flood of Noah's day. At the end of the Flood, after thick sequences of sediments had accumulated, the Indian subcontinent evidently collided with Asia, crumpling the sediments into mountains. Today they stand as giants—folded and fractured layers of ocean-bottom sediments at high elevations. Noah's flood did not cover the Himalayan mountains, it probably formed them... |
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