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Love and Loyalty

 

06-12-14 12:27 PM
Oldschool41 is Offline
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So me and a friend kind of got into an argument about this topic, and I kind of want to see what the Vizzed community would say.

So my friend (let us call him Mark to give him a name) is in a somewhat serious relationship (dating for about a year now). He has been suspecting that his gf is cheating on him, but he doesn't want to accuse her because he loves her a lot. So after a couple of back and forth remarks, he says this...

"I know she wouldn't cheat on me, because I know she loves me."

Well this kind of ticked me off.

I told him that just because you love something doesn't mean it is loyal. Love and Loyalty are two completely different things. I guess this sort of rattled him, because he goes on to say that love is a special feeling that implies a certain level of trust between two individual, therefore love and loyalty are the same thing.

I respond by saying that he is correct that love is a special feeling that implies a certain level of trust, but unlike loyalty, love can be used against one person in the relationship. Love can used to "blackmail" (I say this loosely) one person in to doing something they wouldn't normally do, because they love the person who is using their love against them. Take for example a couple with a child. Lets say the father loves his son (as any father would) and his son wants to go too a baseball game. The father doesn't want to because he doesn't have the money, he has other important task to do around the home, etc. The mother then says...
"If you love your son, you will take him to a baseball game."

This is an example as to how love can be used against a person (this isn't the exact example I gave, but it echoes a similar message for what I was trying to give.)

Naturally, Mark didn't take to kind my words and got defensive. He proceeded to chew me out (won't say what, but I'm sure you all can think of words to say). To make a long story short Mark tried to say that Love and Loyalty are the same thing, while I argued the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where Mark is coming from and why he wants Love and Loyalty to be the same. But I think he is being a bit naïve, although it is understandable.

So, let me ask the Vizzed community. Is Love and Loyalty the same thing? or are they two different things? Can a person's love be used against them? and if so does that mean Love and Loyalty are different because a loyal person wouldn't use a person's love against him?
So me and a friend kind of got into an argument about this topic, and I kind of want to see what the Vizzed community would say.

So my friend (let us call him Mark to give him a name) is in a somewhat serious relationship (dating for about a year now). He has been suspecting that his gf is cheating on him, but he doesn't want to accuse her because he loves her a lot. So after a couple of back and forth remarks, he says this...

"I know she wouldn't cheat on me, because I know she loves me."

Well this kind of ticked me off.

I told him that just because you love something doesn't mean it is loyal. Love and Loyalty are two completely different things. I guess this sort of rattled him, because he goes on to say that love is a special feeling that implies a certain level of trust between two individual, therefore love and loyalty are the same thing.

I respond by saying that he is correct that love is a special feeling that implies a certain level of trust, but unlike loyalty, love can be used against one person in the relationship. Love can used to "blackmail" (I say this loosely) one person in to doing something they wouldn't normally do, because they love the person who is using their love against them. Take for example a couple with a child. Lets say the father loves his son (as any father would) and his son wants to go too a baseball game. The father doesn't want to because he doesn't have the money, he has other important task to do around the home, etc. The mother then says...
"If you love your son, you will take him to a baseball game."

This is an example as to how love can be used against a person (this isn't the exact example I gave, but it echoes a similar message for what I was trying to give.)

Naturally, Mark didn't take to kind my words and got defensive. He proceeded to chew me out (won't say what, but I'm sure you all can think of words to say). To make a long story short Mark tried to say that Love and Loyalty are the same thing, while I argued the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where Mark is coming from and why he wants Love and Loyalty to be the same. But I think he is being a bit naïve, although it is understandable.

So, let me ask the Vizzed community. Is Love and Loyalty the same thing? or are they two different things? Can a person's love be used against them? and if so does that mean Love and Loyalty are different because a loyal person wouldn't use a person's love against him?
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06-12-14 09:16 PM
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I think it would depend on the type of love the person is feeling for the other.

Let's say that the person is in a companionate love, only then can I say that love and loyalty could be considered the same thing.

However, if the person is in a passionate love, that's a different story. It's possible to be so 'in love' with more than one person. So loyalty isn't as stable as companionate love in this one.

Lastly, game-playing love can definitely be used to turn against the other person. Ever heard of trying to get your boyfriend/girlfriend jealous on purpose? That's one form of it.

For the above, it's dependent of the person, not the relationship. I don't know Mark's girlfriend, but I have a feeling that Mark might be passionately loving his girlfriend. He's so 'in love' with her that his passion is clouding his rational thinking or whatever.

Well, that's my take on it.
I think it would depend on the type of love the person is feeling for the other.

Let's say that the person is in a companionate love, only then can I say that love and loyalty could be considered the same thing.

However, if the person is in a passionate love, that's a different story. It's possible to be so 'in love' with more than one person. So loyalty isn't as stable as companionate love in this one.

Lastly, game-playing love can definitely be used to turn against the other person. Ever heard of trying to get your boyfriend/girlfriend jealous on purpose? That's one form of it.

For the above, it's dependent of the person, not the relationship. I don't know Mark's girlfriend, but I have a feeling that Mark might be passionately loving his girlfriend. He's so 'in love' with her that his passion is clouding his rational thinking or whatever.

Well, that's my take on it.
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06-12-14 11:01 PM
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I would say that you are correct, just remember that people involved in a relationship can (as you kinda pointed out) be all to oblivious to what's really going on. Mistress has laid down some pretty good definitions to remember. I think that one of the biggest problems with this feeling called "love" nowadays, is not only how much it is missused, but how you can so easily go from "loving" one person to the next.

I think that TRUE, LONG LASTING love, would have every bit of loyalty in it though.
I would say that you are correct, just remember that people involved in a relationship can (as you kinda pointed out) be all to oblivious to what's really going on. Mistress has laid down some pretty good definitions to remember. I think that one of the biggest problems with this feeling called "love" nowadays, is not only how much it is missused, but how you can so easily go from "loving" one person to the next.

I think that TRUE, LONG LASTING love, would have every bit of loyalty in it though.
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06-12-14 11:04 PM
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Yes. Love and loyalty are very much two different things. I can be and I am loyal to things/people I don't love. My friends, for instance. I care for, and will do anything I can to help them, but I don't necessarily love them.
Yes, a person's love can and has been used against them as well. Just because one person feels the love doesn't mean the other one does. You know those manipulative people who whine to the richer of the two? That's a fairly common example.
And No. While love and loyalty are different, it isn't because loyal people wouldn't use love against another person. It's simply because they encompass two different things. Love involves commitment, compassion, understanding, and maybe a bit of lust here and there. Loyalty simply involves being committed because they're someone you trust.
Similar things in principle, but two very different things in execution.
Yes. Love and loyalty are very much two different things. I can be and I am loyal to things/people I don't love. My friends, for instance. I care for, and will do anything I can to help them, but I don't necessarily love them.
Yes, a person's love can and has been used against them as well. Just because one person feels the love doesn't mean the other one does. You know those manipulative people who whine to the richer of the two? That's a fairly common example.
And No. While love and loyalty are different, it isn't because loyal people wouldn't use love against another person. It's simply because they encompass two different things. Love involves commitment, compassion, understanding, and maybe a bit of lust here and there. Loyalty simply involves being committed because they're someone you trust.
Similar things in principle, but two very different things in execution.
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06-13-14 06:16 PM
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Completely different. While loyalty can be encompassed by love, it is not the same thing. People can love others, but remain uncommitted. Loyalty is a harder thing to stick by. Love can come and go, but it is hard to garner a person's devotion. I would say that they are different, and that everybody else has really covered what can be said, for the most part.
Completely different. While loyalty can be encompassed by love, it is not the same thing. People can love others, but remain uncommitted. Loyalty is a harder thing to stick by. Love can come and go, but it is hard to garner a person's devotion. I would say that they are different, and that everybody else has really covered what can be said, for the most part.
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06-15-14 01:36 AM
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Oldschool41 :

This is kind of a difficult question to answer because love and loyalty are both part of what makes a relationship, a relationship. It can be difficult because you may love someone, but the person just doesn’t have the same level of commitment to the relationship as you might have. It is difficult sometimes to find both loyalty (commitment/faithfulness) and love.

 

Sometimes someone who has been done wrong in a relationship will blame themselves and will not see a benefit to the relationship ending because they will ask questions like what caused her/him to do this, what did I do to push them away, and so on. To be honest, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer when someone leaves a relationship, but one thing that often leads to break ups is dishonesty.

 

Speaking only for myself, I believe that someone is not happy in a relationship and things cannot be worked out for one reason or another that person should be honest with the other half of the relationship and end it in an honest manner. When relationships end as a result of someone cheating, it not only doesn’t paint the one who was unfaithful in a less than dignified light, but it can lead to bad feelings and can not only cause problems in future relationships, but also cause problems with mutual friends and such. For me, when it comes to romantic relationships, I equal loyalty as being the same as trust and commitment. Love is certainly part of it, but I think you need both in order for a relationship to work. Just one man’s opinion.

Oldschool41 :

This is kind of a difficult question to answer because love and loyalty are both part of what makes a relationship, a relationship. It can be difficult because you may love someone, but the person just doesn’t have the same level of commitment to the relationship as you might have. It is difficult sometimes to find both loyalty (commitment/faithfulness) and love.

 

Sometimes someone who has been done wrong in a relationship will blame themselves and will not see a benefit to the relationship ending because they will ask questions like what caused her/him to do this, what did I do to push them away, and so on. To be honest, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer when someone leaves a relationship, but one thing that often leads to break ups is dishonesty.

 

Speaking only for myself, I believe that someone is not happy in a relationship and things cannot be worked out for one reason or another that person should be honest with the other half of the relationship and end it in an honest manner. When relationships end as a result of someone cheating, it not only doesn’t paint the one who was unfaithful in a less than dignified light, but it can lead to bad feelings and can not only cause problems in future relationships, but also cause problems with mutual friends and such. For me, when it comes to romantic relationships, I equal loyalty as being the same as trust and commitment. Love is certainly part of it, but I think you need both in order for a relationship to work. Just one man’s opinion.

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06-15-14 05:24 PM
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Ok, so here we go. Let me first start off by saying love comes in different types, strengths, and levels. These different levels also correspond with the levels of "loyalty" in the relationship.  I will show you my views of how I see those levels from "strongest" to "weakest" (you'll know what I mean as you read).

1) "True Love": This is the strongest form of love in which both parties involved have a perfect, complete balance of unwavering trust, devout loyalty, and undeniable affection for the other. This case is extremely rare, and you would be lucky if you even saw a couple that possess this type of relationship. Society has twisted, mutated, and thrown this name around everywhere to the point where it is nearly indistinguishable from a regular middle-school crush. 

2) "Regular Love": The most common, but also the most unpredictable. This type of relationship involves various levels of affection. Both parties must have some affection for each other, although to what extent is impossible to tell. Loyalty is not necessarily always found in this relationship, but almost always is. Couples can live a happy life with this type of relationship and have no problems at all. Most relationships of this kind make it a long ways, although not necessarily engagement/marriage. 

3) "Lustful Love": Achieved by those who are desperate for "true love" or "regular love" (most people can't tell the difference when it comes to real life). This relationship is usually formed by either one or both parties that feel they need a partner to survive. It becomes more of a social accomplishment to achieve a relationship that you can show off to the world then a private enjoyment of each other's personalities. Most do not work out unless you are a celebrity or rich and famous, as almost all of these figures have this relationship and nothing higher.

4) "Experimental Love": Basically your average school relationship. They don't really know what they are doing, but they are giving it a try as they both have a mutual respect for each other. Although more enjoyable then "Lustful Love", it has a smaller chance of it working out as you get older and develop separate interests. It can, however, last awhile and has the chance of developing to one of the top 2 relationships if everything goes right. 

5) "Sexual Love": I'm sure you know where this goes. All the players reside at this level. It is basically expected of anyone at this level to cheat on their "significant other". If you find yourself down here you better kick yourself in da booty and haul it back up the tiers of love or your in trouble. Women, don't go this low, it isn't worth it by any means. 

***Levels 3 and 4 can be switched depending on your goals/values in life etc etc.

***Levels of Loyalty drops as the tiers drop. Level 3 and 4 get confusing because celebrities cheat on each other all the time, but school relationships are so unstable that it almost isn't really a relationship. 

So I may have just made this up on the spot, but I don't think it turned out to bad. I'm open to any suggestions/disagreements/ideas because I myself have no personal experience in a relationship. I did my best to categorize "love". Hope you enjoyed lol, this "chart" (I guess you could call it that) was actually kind of fun to make
Ok, so here we go. Let me first start off by saying love comes in different types, strengths, and levels. These different levels also correspond with the levels of "loyalty" in the relationship.  I will show you my views of how I see those levels from "strongest" to "weakest" (you'll know what I mean as you read).

1) "True Love": This is the strongest form of love in which both parties involved have a perfect, complete balance of unwavering trust, devout loyalty, and undeniable affection for the other. This case is extremely rare, and you would be lucky if you even saw a couple that possess this type of relationship. Society has twisted, mutated, and thrown this name around everywhere to the point where it is nearly indistinguishable from a regular middle-school crush. 

2) "Regular Love": The most common, but also the most unpredictable. This type of relationship involves various levels of affection. Both parties must have some affection for each other, although to what extent is impossible to tell. Loyalty is not necessarily always found in this relationship, but almost always is. Couples can live a happy life with this type of relationship and have no problems at all. Most relationships of this kind make it a long ways, although not necessarily engagement/marriage. 

3) "Lustful Love": Achieved by those who are desperate for "true love" or "regular love" (most people can't tell the difference when it comes to real life). This relationship is usually formed by either one or both parties that feel they need a partner to survive. It becomes more of a social accomplishment to achieve a relationship that you can show off to the world then a private enjoyment of each other's personalities. Most do not work out unless you are a celebrity or rich and famous, as almost all of these figures have this relationship and nothing higher.

4) "Experimental Love": Basically your average school relationship. They don't really know what they are doing, but they are giving it a try as they both have a mutual respect for each other. Although more enjoyable then "Lustful Love", it has a smaller chance of it working out as you get older and develop separate interests. It can, however, last awhile and has the chance of developing to one of the top 2 relationships if everything goes right. 

5) "Sexual Love": I'm sure you know where this goes. All the players reside at this level. It is basically expected of anyone at this level to cheat on their "significant other". If you find yourself down here you better kick yourself in da booty and haul it back up the tiers of love or your in trouble. Women, don't go this low, it isn't worth it by any means. 

***Levels 3 and 4 can be switched depending on your goals/values in life etc etc.

***Levels of Loyalty drops as the tiers drop. Level 3 and 4 get confusing because celebrities cheat on each other all the time, but school relationships are so unstable that it almost isn't really a relationship. 

So I may have just made this up on the spot, but I don't think it turned out to bad. I'm open to any suggestions/disagreements/ideas because I myself have no personal experience in a relationship. I did my best to categorize "love". Hope you enjoyed lol, this "chart" (I guess you could call it that) was actually kind of fun to make
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06-24-14 08:06 PM
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It is silly to define love.  It's different for everyone for every situation.  There are so many shades of gray you can't try to bring a definition to the table.

Saying that, if you love someone, you will respect their feelings and you won't cheat on them.  You may make little mistakes and hurt them accidentally but hurting them on purpose isn't what love is.

Someone may feel strongly for someone else but they're not in love with them if they cheat.  End of story.  "Loyalty" is another tough word to define and it is different from love.  

However, the relationship has both and both are required to have a functional, healthy relationship.  They're inter-dependent with each other.  You need both to be successful.
It is silly to define love.  It's different for everyone for every situation.  There are so many shades of gray you can't try to bring a definition to the table.

Saying that, if you love someone, you will respect their feelings and you won't cheat on them.  You may make little mistakes and hurt them accidentally but hurting them on purpose isn't what love is.

Someone may feel strongly for someone else but they're not in love with them if they cheat.  End of story.  "Loyalty" is another tough word to define and it is different from love.  

However, the relationship has both and both are required to have a functional, healthy relationship.  They're inter-dependent with each other.  You need both to be successful.
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