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Should the Seven Deadly Sins be "Modernized"?
In other words recatagorize the order of sinful conduct
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Should the Seven Deadly Sins be "Modernized"?

 

08-02-13 10:06 PM
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Good day folks.

So I was reading the Divine Comedy by Dante and I was thinking about the Seven Deadly Sins while I was ready about the Circles. As some of you may or may not know; the Seven Deadly Sins were created by Pope Gregory the Great during the Medieval Ages (although there is evidence that the Seven Deadly Sins were created earlier during the period when Rome was falling to the Germanic tribes.) Gregory listed the sins in this order from least sinful to worse sin to commit against God...

1. Lust
2. Gluttony
3. Greed
4. Sloth
5. Wraith
6. Envy
7. Pride

This order of sins has been a principle of most Christian religions (I assume) and predominately in Catholics (again I assume). However given the fact that the Catholic church might be "changing" some of its ways, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to change the order of the sins. In todays society I could argue that the sin of Greed is worse then Sloth or Envy. Not to mention medical science has proven that depression (or Sloth) is more of a medical condition so Sloth might not need to be a sin anymore.

So what do you guys think? Should the Catholic Church or other religions who have a list of sins change the order of which sin is the least offensive against God and which is most offensive to God? (I don't know what sins the other languages have...although I do know that immortality or trying to achieve immortality in Islam is a grave sin.)

Also if this is not the right place for this thread, then I give permission for the mods to move this thread.
Good day folks.

So I was reading the Divine Comedy by Dante and I was thinking about the Seven Deadly Sins while I was ready about the Circles. As some of you may or may not know; the Seven Deadly Sins were created by Pope Gregory the Great during the Medieval Ages (although there is evidence that the Seven Deadly Sins were created earlier during the period when Rome was falling to the Germanic tribes.) Gregory listed the sins in this order from least sinful to worse sin to commit against God...

1. Lust
2. Gluttony
3. Greed
4. Sloth
5. Wraith
6. Envy
7. Pride

This order of sins has been a principle of most Christian religions (I assume) and predominately in Catholics (again I assume). However given the fact that the Catholic church might be "changing" some of its ways, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to change the order of the sins. In todays society I could argue that the sin of Greed is worse then Sloth or Envy. Not to mention medical science has proven that depression (or Sloth) is more of a medical condition so Sloth might not need to be a sin anymore.

So what do you guys think? Should the Catholic Church or other religions who have a list of sins change the order of which sin is the least offensive against God and which is most offensive to God? (I don't know what sins the other languages have...although I do know that immortality or trying to achieve immortality in Islam is a grave sin.)

Also if this is not the right place for this thread, then I give permission for the mods to move this thread.
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08-03-13 05:13 AM
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Sloth isn't depression so much as actively being lazy.  You know you need to do something but you just don't do it.  You don't work, you don't make any effort to improve yourself.  You just sit there and play video games all day.  That's sloth.  Depression is different.

And I think the 7 deadly sins are just fine the way they are.  I may not agree with some but I think they're as modern as you can be.

1.  Lust - too much porn on the computer causes ED with young men nowadays.
2. Gluttony - Obesity in America and around the world is a massive problem in developed countries.
3. Greed - Banks and people stealing money
4.  Sloth - People being lazy and not working, like hipsters.
5.  Wraith - There was a minister in Detroit who was shot and killed the other day because he asked a house party to turn down music.
6. Envy - Jealous people make bad decisions.
7.  Pride - People who think highly of themselves are always doomed to fail.

These work for today.  It all still applies.
Sloth isn't depression so much as actively being lazy.  You know you need to do something but you just don't do it.  You don't work, you don't make any effort to improve yourself.  You just sit there and play video games all day.  That's sloth.  Depression is different.

And I think the 7 deadly sins are just fine the way they are.  I may not agree with some but I think they're as modern as you can be.

1.  Lust - too much porn on the computer causes ED with young men nowadays.
2. Gluttony - Obesity in America and around the world is a massive problem in developed countries.
3. Greed - Banks and people stealing money
4.  Sloth - People being lazy and not working, like hipsters.
5.  Wraith - There was a minister in Detroit who was shot and killed the other day because he asked a house party to turn down music.
6. Envy - Jealous people make bad decisions.
7.  Pride - People who think highly of themselves are always doomed to fail.

These work for today.  It all still applies.
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08-03-13 01:33 PM
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Oldschool41 :  To put the record straight - There is NO principle of the order of sins in the Christian faith.  There is NO higher or lesser sin.  For God, sin is sin.  God's law, or rather the 10 commandments makes this very clear.  If you have lied / told a lie before, you are a liar.  If you have stolen, regardless of how small the item is, or what the value of the item is, you're a thief.  If you have used God's name in vain (saying: "Oh my G-O-D" for example) you have blasphemed. If you have looked at a girl with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart.  I can go on and on.  The question should be:  What is sin?  The Bible gives us a definition in 1 John 3:4 - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.  So what precisely is lawlessness? It actually does not refer to just the ten commandments. The ten commandments do not refer to all cases of sin such as hate, slander, etc. Furthermore the ten commandments do not include all the positive commands such as to love, to pray, to keep unity.  The Law refers to the moral character of God. This is revealed for us in the hundreds of specific commands and principles for conduct found in the New Testament. Commands such as, Present your bodies as a living sacrifice, Make no provision for the old nature, Bring every thought into captivity.   These commands stem from one all-inclusive principle that scripture lays down. Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31).
Sin, in its broadest definition, is any lack of conformity to the character of God as is revealed in the living and written word.  Again, there is no higher or lesser sin.
Oldschool41 :  To put the record straight - There is NO principle of the order of sins in the Christian faith.  There is NO higher or lesser sin.  For God, sin is sin.  God's law, or rather the 10 commandments makes this very clear.  If you have lied / told a lie before, you are a liar.  If you have stolen, regardless of how small the item is, or what the value of the item is, you're a thief.  If you have used God's name in vain (saying: "Oh my G-O-D" for example) you have blasphemed. If you have looked at a girl with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart.  I can go on and on.  The question should be:  What is sin?  The Bible gives us a definition in 1 John 3:4 - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.  So what precisely is lawlessness? It actually does not refer to just the ten commandments. The ten commandments do not refer to all cases of sin such as hate, slander, etc. Furthermore the ten commandments do not include all the positive commands such as to love, to pray, to keep unity.  The Law refers to the moral character of God. This is revealed for us in the hundreds of specific commands and principles for conduct found in the New Testament. Commands such as, Present your bodies as a living sacrifice, Make no provision for the old nature, Bring every thought into captivity.   These commands stem from one all-inclusive principle that scripture lays down. Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31).
Sin, in its broadest definition, is any lack of conformity to the character of God as is revealed in the living and written word.  Again, there is no higher or lesser sin.
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08-03-13 09:41 PM
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SoL@R : Yes of course for God sin is sin. And maybe or maybe not there is an order of sins in the Christian faith (as I may or may not have mentioned before my religious knowledge is sub-par).

However I will make the case that there is an "implied" order of sins in the Christian faith (more specifically the Catholics). For example...

When Pope Gregory the Great created the list of Seven Deadly Sins, he listed Pride as the worse sin to commit against God. Gregory said that it was Pride that caused Lucifer to fall from Grace as he was to prideful to bow before Man, which caused Lucifer to rebel, and him being casted out of heaven. Lucifer didn't rebel because of Lust, Gluttony, Greed, or Sloth; Lucifer fell because of Pride; hence why Gregory listed Pride as the worse sin to commit against God because Pride is basically you boasting that you are better then everyone else (including God); sure you can say that someone Lusting over a woman/man while he should be devotedly praying toward God, you being to lazy or depressed (Sloth) to pray or give thanks to God is all sins in itself; but to say that YOU are so great that you are greater then God is a much worse sin (would you not agree?)

Now lets take a look at the Divine Comedy as Dante also has a "list" or "hierarchy" of punishments as the serpent King Minos wraps his tail around himself a number of times to show what "level" the sinner will reside. The first row of sins (which are leveled similar to the Seven Deadly Sins) are all "minor" ones because they are punished for not controlling their desires (the Lustful man can't control his lust for others, the Glutton can't control his appetite, the Greedy man can't give up his money to others, etc). While the lower levels of Hell contain those who attempted to commit Fraud (like the Heretic who deceives man into following the wrong path) or the Violent (like the Blasphemer who insults God).

And then of course in the deepest part of Hell lies Satan as he has commited the ultimate Sin of Treachery against God (or in a simpler term Rebelling against God).

Now while the Divine Comedy might not be the Bible or the Ten Commandments; it still plays an important factor as the Divine Comedy took the "list" of Sins that Pope Gregory created and in turned made a "list" of levels of what sort of punishment the Sinners will face in Hell. Therefore the is a "list" or an "implied list" of a "hierarchy" of Sinful acts (those who can't control their desires being the least sinful; while the man who Prideful man is commit the worse Sin).

Lets look at it another way. Lets say you go out to society and ask people the following question...

"Which is worse; a Man who refuses to pray or salute God because he is lazy (sloth) or a Man who refuses to pray or salute God because he views himself as better then God (Pride) and not worth his time praying toward a lesser being?"

I'm willing to bet that 80% of the people you pull will say that Man who views himself better then God is a much more sinful man; even thou both are commit sins by not praying or saluting God (I only did 80% because you got to factor in Atheists). So again there is an "implied" order as to what Sins are the worse to commit (even thou all are bad).


SoL@R : Yes of course for God sin is sin. And maybe or maybe not there is an order of sins in the Christian faith (as I may or may not have mentioned before my religious knowledge is sub-par).

However I will make the case that there is an "implied" order of sins in the Christian faith (more specifically the Catholics). For example...

When Pope Gregory the Great created the list of Seven Deadly Sins, he listed Pride as the worse sin to commit against God. Gregory said that it was Pride that caused Lucifer to fall from Grace as he was to prideful to bow before Man, which caused Lucifer to rebel, and him being casted out of heaven. Lucifer didn't rebel because of Lust, Gluttony, Greed, or Sloth; Lucifer fell because of Pride; hence why Gregory listed Pride as the worse sin to commit against God because Pride is basically you boasting that you are better then everyone else (including God); sure you can say that someone Lusting over a woman/man while he should be devotedly praying toward God, you being to lazy or depressed (Sloth) to pray or give thanks to God is all sins in itself; but to say that YOU are so great that you are greater then God is a much worse sin (would you not agree?)

Now lets take a look at the Divine Comedy as Dante also has a "list" or "hierarchy" of punishments as the serpent King Minos wraps his tail around himself a number of times to show what "level" the sinner will reside. The first row of sins (which are leveled similar to the Seven Deadly Sins) are all "minor" ones because they are punished for not controlling their desires (the Lustful man can't control his lust for others, the Glutton can't control his appetite, the Greedy man can't give up his money to others, etc). While the lower levels of Hell contain those who attempted to commit Fraud (like the Heretic who deceives man into following the wrong path) or the Violent (like the Blasphemer who insults God).

And then of course in the deepest part of Hell lies Satan as he has commited the ultimate Sin of Treachery against God (or in a simpler term Rebelling against God).

Now while the Divine Comedy might not be the Bible or the Ten Commandments; it still plays an important factor as the Divine Comedy took the "list" of Sins that Pope Gregory created and in turned made a "list" of levels of what sort of punishment the Sinners will face in Hell. Therefore the is a "list" or an "implied list" of a "hierarchy" of Sinful acts (those who can't control their desires being the least sinful; while the man who Prideful man is commit the worse Sin).

Lets look at it another way. Lets say you go out to society and ask people the following question...

"Which is worse; a Man who refuses to pray or salute God because he is lazy (sloth) or a Man who refuses to pray or salute God because he views himself as better then God (Pride) and not worth his time praying toward a lesser being?"

I'm willing to bet that 80% of the people you pull will say that Man who views himself better then God is a much more sinful man; even thou both are commit sins by not praying or saluting God (I only did 80% because you got to factor in Atheists). So again there is an "implied" order as to what Sins are the worse to commit (even thou all are bad).

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08-06-13 09:52 AM
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SoL@R : I think you missed the point of this thread.

We are discussing the 7 deadly sins being modernized, not the ten commandments and other sins condemned in the bible. And not "sin" itself.

If this was a religious thread, it would be no problem, but this is in the debate forum, and not the christian forum. If you read the forum rules, it cautions against posting religious topics in this forum.


Edit: on second thought, I will move this thread.
SoL@R : I think you missed the point of this thread.

We are discussing the 7 deadly sins being modernized, not the ten commandments and other sins condemned in the bible. And not "sin" itself.

If this was a religious thread, it would be no problem, but this is in the debate forum, and not the christian forum. If you read the forum rules, it cautions against posting religious topics in this forum.


Edit: on second thought, I will move this thread.
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(edited by Light Knight on 08-06-13 09:53 AM)    

08-07-13 12:46 AM
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Light Knight :  Sorry if I missed the point, although I totally get the purpose of it You didn't have to move it on my account.  It IS a religious thread after all and not a Christian topic.  I felt I had to comment (and correct it) when it was said that there are "levels" of sin in "most Christian religions".  By the way, as a side note, you are either a Christian (Christ follower) or not.  There are not many so called Christian "religions".  
Anyway, apart from all of this, IF I had to categorize those sins, I would agree with Oldschool41.  Pride is a mother of an ankle biting snake of a sin.  Especially among us men.  That and selfishness goes hand in hand.  The Bible says in Proverbs 16:18 - "Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall."
Light Knight :  Sorry if I missed the point, although I totally get the purpose of it You didn't have to move it on my account.  It IS a religious thread after all and not a Christian topic.  I felt I had to comment (and correct it) when it was said that there are "levels" of sin in "most Christian religions".  By the way, as a side note, you are either a Christian (Christ follower) or not.  There are not many so called Christian "religions".  
Anyway, apart from all of this, IF I had to categorize those sins, I would agree with Oldschool41.  Pride is a mother of an ankle biting snake of a sin.  Especially among us men.  That and selfishness goes hand in hand.  The Bible says in Proverbs 16:18 - "Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall."
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