Originally posted by Yumecosmos

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On one hand, declaring that there are moral absolutes is a tough stance to defend from a real-world perspective, because people will always bring up situations that are tough to call.

On the other hand, the idea that there are no absolutes is logically indefensible, because that is in itself an absolute statement.

The only marginally self-consistent philosophy I've been able to stick with is that are absolute truths. Right and wrong do exist independent of our personal ideals. It's just that no one on this Earth knows what they are. No one's ideals are 100% aligned with the Truth. Of course, then I have to accept that this very idea may not be truth, which puts us right back to square one.

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But there are absolute truths and I have one.

Slavery is wrong. That is an absolute truth. It doesn't change the fact that slavery has and does occur, but that has never made it right. This is an absolute truth. And there are others that I could list that I don't think anyone could argue for.

Take murder, and rape. They are wrong to commit. These things do occur, but can you think of a situation where either is right? I can't.

I believe that there are lines for every person. But even though the lines are different for individuals, the line is only stable if the individual keeps steady ideas about things, because in certain instances people might think that something that they used to think was wrong is now right, because they got convinced by someone. So if some keeps steady values, then they have a fine line.

Originally posted by septembern

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I believe that there are lines for every person. But even though the lines are different for individuals, the line is only stable if the individual keeps steady ideas about things, because in certain instances people might think that something that they used to think was wrong is now right, because they got convinced by someone. So if some keeps steady values, then they have a fine line.

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But if every person decides right or wrong for themselves, then why do we have government? God has written on our hearts a desire for order, to have things under control. But if there were no moral absolutes, no right and wrong that everyone has to follow, why would we feel that way? Man has what some call a conscience. That, in my opinion, is the Holy Spirit, telling us what's right and wrong. Actually, it's not just an opinion. The Bible clearly states that we have God's law written on our hearts, and that we don't have an excuse for sinning. If we claim to not know right from wrong, that's because we are ignoring our consciences.

Government has nothing to do with this at all because you can't satisfy everyone without harming another. There may be fine lines for every person that are different, but that doesn't mean that one or two people or maybe even forty people follow the same line as you, just not everybody.

Don't have to read this: Suppose you have a bag of grain, a fox, and a rooster, but you can only give one thing to another and thats it. You give the grain to the rooster and he is happy, and he runs off, so the fox is left standing there with nothing. On the other hand you give the rooster to the fox and he gobbles him up. There the fox is happy, but the rooster, far from it! And giving the grain to the fox is just a waste of 'capital' because he won't use it so thats out of the question.

Everyone has different opinions on different things...like recently the bill for homosexuals that Obama signed didn't cause as much conflict because the majority supported it, but there are still some people out there that completely hated the idea.

"if we claim to not know right from wrong, that's because we are ignoring our consciences."

So when children cuss, start looking at the opposite sex differently, etc. that is automatically wrong? What if they didn't know it was wrong? What if it is just curiosity or just plain ignorance? Humans need to learn at some point in their life. Therefore you can say you didn't know it was wrong and it would still be under control; you shouldn't freak out if your 10-year-old brother drops the f-bomb.

Originally posted by RSD

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"if we claim to not know right from wrong, that's because we are ignoring our consciences."

So when children cuss, start looking at the opposite sex differently, etc. that is automatically wrong? What if they didn't know it was wrong? What if it is just curiosity or just plain ignorance? Humans need to learn at some point in their life. Therefore you can say you didn't know it was wrong and it would still be under control; you shouldn't freak out if your 10-year-old brother drops the f-bomb.

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That's a good point and I'm glad you brought it up. You see, there's this thing called the age of accountability. It's not a specified age, no one's really sure what it is, but I believe it to be when children mature enough to start understanding things like that. Under that age, there is no understanding, and so the sins are excusable, and before reaching that age you don't need to have accepted Christ to get to heaven. But once you get past that age, you're inexcusable. God will let you know if it's wrong. You just have to pay attention.

Children don't at the beginning know the difference between right and wrong, it is the moral duty of the parents to teach the difference.

Originally posted by septembern

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Children don't at the beginning know the difference between right and wrong, it is the moral duty of the parents to teach the difference.

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exactly.... I think parents are held accountable for the job they do raising their kids. If they raise good upstanding children into healthy adults then they have nothing to worry about but I think there is some accountability on parents who don't.

Correct Geeogree, the kids when they are small don't have any clue between right and wrong, so we can't always blame the child for doing wrong things when they might have been taught insuffieciently the difference between right and wrong.

nope, just the word and

Originally posted by Tymast

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nope, just the word and

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Huh?? what do you mean?

Yes there is a fine line between right and wrong if the Bible says against it then it's wrong I mean come on if their "fun" is wrong they might get a the woman might get the gift from above which may lead her to abortion causing even more sins to be in acted since she killed an unborn baby.

How can you say there is a fine line between right and wrong, because certain people have different lines between right and wrong...for example one person could think of abortion as saving a baby from an unhappy life, but another person could think it is wrong, because it is like killing an unborn child, therefore not letting it have a taste of the world...

Right and wrong are two of the most common grounds from which a person can identify. Sword_Kirby777 I say why do we see it as wrong if someone else dates a girl who isn't right for you. So what if he was your friend or not. People we harbor unnecessary feelings towards one another. I say what, you don't want to meet the girl you have been dating before again? You hate her or something? As a Christian I would assume you wouldn't care about such a thing. If my father dated a girl I used to date I would "sincerely congratulate" them and hope the best for them. I have dated many girls and haven't found the right one yet. When it's over and the relationship cannot continued I don't go "hey don't date anyone else okay?" Shouldn't you want your friend to have what you cannot. Here's a simple choice: have your EX live happily ever after with your friend, or have her date an abusive controlling man who will hurt her badly later on in life. See my point if not then you truly don't love anything!!!

The Bible states it's okay for a brother, sister, father, relative to marry someone who is a widow of the family . Why is it not okay for a friend, relative to date someone who you aren't even married too. I wish others happiness. What if your friend marries you ex she ends up being the one for him. You would selfishly stop others from being happy. How is that right? Why do people care about petty things like first dibs or (No EX's rule made by who "Fraternity members"). We should want the best for others even if we feel we have the short end of the stick.

As for premarital sex it is wrong because of single parenting. It seems wrong to get a girl pregnant that you don't even want to be with in the future. "So yeah lets go do it". ”What!!! your four weeks pregnant!!!". I guess you will stay with her or him for the child right??? Is this love ----Hell No!!!! We need to wake up. We find helping a homeless person not our problem. Giving life advice to a "stranger" not necessary. A Child need his family. We need to see this as truth because not everyone in the world cares about anyone else. "BAD" things do happen to people that only God knows.

Murder is wrong obviously because do you want to be murdered, if not sit down somewhere and drink something to relax the nerves. Hell Most people still don't understand that they won't live forever. (Simple Law of Life). Yes We are all getting older and closer to "spirit form". Many people ask me why not get laid already why wait. I say why not if I fornicate there is a chance I'll get an STD, afterlife worries, and not the right partner(she doesn't like me as much as "I Love Her"). There is no such thing as "Divorce" it's a manmade concept, "Til Death do you Part" ring a bell anyone. Please don't mention a 25 cent condom like it's the solution because (my life is not for sell).

I say one more thing to the crazy emotions we dwell on like envy, lust, pride, fear, hate, jealousy, and greed need to be looked at differently. Envy is foolish because doing so would mean if you were that person you wouldn't like yourself. Lust has no plans for the future. Pride gets you nowhere because you cannot do anything alone (I mean really we do nothing in life without someone else help. We need each other). Fear has no point when you think of life as a whole. Hate only lasts as long as your mind lets it ( where is hate when you are dead). Jealousy would mean you don't want things for your other selves (Family ,friends. etc). Last greed something that is not possible, everything and anything is not yours, it's everyone's (only want what is obtainable). If you can't control these emotions then just think of other things to get your mind off it. At Least Try







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lol if you think thats bad, you'd probably consider me evil. I sleep with woman, then wake up next to them and have no clue who they are or where they came from. I have to ask over half of them what their names are lmfao. call me bad, but I see nothing wrong with it. It's all just population control, and I use a glove every time ^^

Originally posted by Chronabis

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It's all just population control, and I use a glove every time ^^

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If you mean having sex with only one person is population control then what is wrong with that. Look i would gladly say to you if you want to marry 20 girls (A.K.A live in the same house look after one another and raise the children you and them have) then be my guess. My point is simple if you had a kid or two from one of those "one night stands" then what will you do with the child/children.

Are you going to go say get an abortion? Are you going to say I will raise you and them? Like I said ones actions that stem from temptation isn't worried about anything other than the in the moment feel. Your actions don't have a true plan. The condom will save me, Birth control will help, and abortion will be my final option (A.K.A it shouldn't). Adoption will also be a possible outcome you might approach. Although it shouldn't since you know good and well if you can raise kids or not. This isn't rocket science. if you feel you can't raise a child or (what most feel) you don't want to settle down "fun fun fun on my mind". Then stop having carefree sex.

This way of thinking has a logical negative effect on your character and your bloodline. Sex that is a result of love has better plans than that of lust (two teens who think they are ready but don't have a penny in their pockets). I don't think your bad Chroabis just following the wrong crowd. Oh yeah please stop taking an unnecessary health risk. Doing girls you don't know will cause you problems in the future. STD's are on the rise. Do better at controlling your risk for a shorter life, or a destroyed future.

Chronabis...

You run the risk of a lot of things by having sex like that...

1. You run the risk of having an STD. STDs are on the rise today and more and more people get infected. The only was to be absolutly sure that you will not get one, is to practice abstinence. Other than that you have a great chance that you will get one as explained in #3. STDs could ruin your life by making you not have the relationship that you want to have with the woman that you may marry in a couple of years, because your STD might prevent you. It may also make you not have relationships in the future, because they may not want to have sex with a man that had sex nearly every night a few years ago... Also this will make you feel a lot of regret in the future when you get an STD, such as AIDS or HIV. It will ruin your life and you will have no way of undoing your mistakes...

2. You run the risk of impregnating one of the women. This is so, because no contraceptive is 100% effective. Sooner or later, you are bound to impregnate one of the women, which will also ruin your life. When you impregnate a woman you have 3 choices... a. Abortion, b. Adoption, c. Raise the child...
a. Abortion... If you have an abortion, then you will be looked down by society as something disgusting, because you knew the consequences of sleeping with so many people and still slept with them... It will be thought of you killing a child that you created, by your lack of realizing that sleeping with so many people is a mistake. Also I doubt that your parents know that you are sleeping with all those women, but I do know that they will think of you as a disgrace if you impregnated a women and even more disgusted if you had an abortion.
b. Adoption... If you choose adoption, then you will still have to take care of the women you impregnated for at least 9 months, which will be very hard on you. Also it will force you to spend a lot of money for the woman and the baby.
c. Raising the child... If you decide to raise the child then you will have to marry the woman. This will prevent you from having the good wife that you could have had if you had not make the mistake of sleeping with so many people. It will also make you feel a lot of regret in your later life ...

3. Your calculations of population control is WRONG! If you have sex with 10 people and they had sex with 10 people, then it is like you have had sex with 100 people and the number of STDs that you could get will be immense... In that example I did not even state that the people that had sex with the people that had sex with you could have had sex with several people, which would make the chance of getting STDs even higher and it be like you have had sex with 500 people...

If you keep doing what you have been doing then you will always have regret later on... There is not a fine line between right and wrong, because it varies between each person and I hope I have just now varied your opinion of how what you are doing is right and now made you realize that it is actually wrong ... I just don't want you to ruin your life by the mistakes that you are doing right now...

Originally posted by septembern

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a. Abortion... If you have an abortion, then you will be looked down by society as something disgusting, because you knew the consequences of sleeping with so many people and still slept with them... It will be thought of you killing a child that you created, by your lack of realizing that sleeping with so many people is a mistake. Also I doubt that your parents know that you are sleeping with all those women, but I do know that they will think of you as a disgrace if you impregnated a women and even more disgusted if you had an abortion.
c. Raising the child... If you decide to raise the child then you will have to marry the woman. This will prevent you from having the good wife that you could have had if you had not make the mistake of sleeping with so many people. It will also make you feel a lot of regret in your later life

If you keep doing what you have been doing then you will always have regret later on... There is not a fine line between right and wrong, because it varies between each person and I hope I have just now varied your opinion of how what you are doing is right and now made you realize that it is actually wrong ... I just don't want you to ruin your life by the mistakes that you are doing right now...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjCj40cSLLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWGPaDXuMb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjS7ww1Edtg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRtx37XGnp0

(All these links are for single moms disputes. if you need more just search for them.)

Anyway the abortion comment you made seems very selfish and ridiculous. I mean society's views of you matter that freaking much to some people, really!? I'm going to say this simple and easy. If you feel like aborting a child why not abort yourself the same day. "I'm ready for sex, just not the commitment".IF YOU THINK YOU ARE ABLE TO DO MULTIPLE WOMEN. THEN RAISE ALL THE KIDS YOU HAVE WITH THEM!!! Look how can anyone view a little child as "not needing to exist". What has the child done? The main reason why abortions shouldn't occur is simple, the fact is it's wrong to kill someone for no reason. If killing an innocent little newborn becomes an ideal worth mentioning than what type of person are you. Shouldn't the rapist be killed then. Shouldn't the irresponsible parent be dead. Stop worrying about what others think about you and start thinking about how you view yourself. IT IS NOT A CRIME OR WRONG TO RAISE THE KIDS YOU HAVE!!! DOESN' MATTER HOW MANY WOMEN YOU HAVE KIDS WITH!!!!

Next "keeping the child and marrying". What world do we live in man. one were "Men" value others over themselves. The vast majority of men act like hungry little boys." I want a Cookie." "No no nono! I can't wait!!!" The sad part is the women who get their lives complicated by these men find the nice nerd type to be boring. Anyway the point is simple no one has to keep the child and then get married!!!

Last "the verified reason why unplanned sex is wrong ". Most guys don't give a rats ass about what you or I, or themselves think is right or wrong. They act as though they can do whatever they want because what is the immediate consequence to them. Unless the government somewhere made a "No Leave a woman you impregnated" law no one will stop the fornicating, unwanted child birthrate, or even abortion.

Well not really and yes. I say that because what one persons right might be another persons wrong. Now if we are talking commandments then yes, that's pretty cut and dry. But when you come to peoples morals and the worlds man-made laws I'd say no. The reason I say no is because the scale of right and wrong varies from person to person, from country to country, from culture to culture. Everybody has a different perspective on what's right and what's wrong. So my say is yes, there is no fine line between right and wrong when it isn't coming to religion and godly laws. But when it comes to pretty much everything else, my say is no.

Originally posted by DarkHyren

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did you know that theres a passage in some versions of the bible that either say, or can be interpreted as saying, that people should go out and kill homosexuals?
im pretty sure KILLING is wrong but it still says that.
as ender said, 'with a grain of sugar', though that should be "grain of salt".

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It doesn´t say "Kill homosexuals" that would mean you could do it in any specific way, the Bible says you have to kill them by stoning them, so if you are a true christian then the next time you see a gay person start hurling rocks.

It depends on the situation. For something like killing mass murder for the hell of it, it is obviously a bad thing. But what if by killing someone you could save a thousand other lives? What if an un-reformable serial killer is put to death? What if someone knows somebody is a serial killer, but there is not enough evidence for a trial so he takes the job of killing him upon himself?


There are many shades of gray.