smotpoker86 : Lets just agree to disagree. I will happily
debate with you on paradoxs and time travel in another thread; but since this is the Conservative Christian forum; lets end the talk about time travel since we are getting off-topic. 

thenumberone :

"God created us in his image, so he is evil himself.
Allowing someone to sin for freedom of choice, i wouldnt allow a murder, god would. Im against freedom then?
Hes not really allowing freedom either if he casts you down when you die. "

You are right in the first half of your statement:  God created us in His image.  We have two arms, two legs, a face..... so does God.  He created us in His IMAGE.  An IMAGE is not a characteristic or a trait.  It is the way in which something appears.

But let's say for the sake of your argument that characteristics WERE being considered.  God created us like Him.  We chose to DEPART from that, if you wish to view 'image' as a way of doing things.  When God made man, He made man sinLESS.  He created us in that image.  But man chose to sin and thus became evil and sinful.  God did not CREATE us that way (evil and sinful).  Man is evil of his own merit and not because of how God made him.  Therefore God is not evil just because man is.

As for the last part of your statement, try reading my last post.  It addresses your last statement, I think.  To say that God is not allowing freedom because He gives consequences makes no sense.  If I have a child, that child has free will to obey or break my rules.  If that child breaks the rules, I will punish my child.  That does NOT mean in any way, shape, or form, that my child lacks free will.

Singelli :
If hes all knowing he knew we would sin, which begs the question why give us the opportunity.
Its like placing a cake in front of a 2 year old, saying dont eat that, and then disappearing from sight for a few hundred years.
You expect the cake to still be there?
By your very statement, if we ever discover another species your faith in god will be dis proven then?You are stating that we were created in the physical image of god, not metaphorical, hence if another intelligent life form on our level dosent look like us...?Different god?he god bored of the old design?
It dosent mean your child lacks free will, it does mean he lacks certain freedoms though, because youre not allowing him to have full control of his life.
In any way shape or form.
TheNameWithNoNumbers :
Maybe he thought it would be more entertaining to watch.

My response is here so that we stop hijacking this poor soul's thread.

Well first of all let me say that Singelli's post of November 1st was just beautiful, truly that was God working through your fingers to my eyes.

Now to address the actual topic of the thread: I know of God's healing powers because one of the Gifts of the Spirit that God gave to my Dad was the laying on of hands and he has had to do that with me more then once over the course of my life.

mr.pace : what! god talked to you thaths awosome you lucky guy!

A centurion man came Jesus saying a soldier is sick but his house was not worthy for Jesus to come there, but if He would just speak the word that his friend would be made whole.  And because of his faith his friend was made whole.

It has now come to a time that we only use God as a last resort, but what God is telling you is " Come to Me first and see that I will fix things"  Don't what till the last moment to go to God because often times the last moment may be to late  for have slept in your grave.  God can heal any aliment that you may have.  You just have to go to him and pray to the Lord.  Ask Him to forgive your sins.  Ask Him to heal you.  And then when you done asking tell Him thank for all that he does.  And Watch God Change things.


------------------------------------------

The above is copied from the first post.

I'd like to discuss the second paragraph first.  I completely agree that we need to stop using God as a means of last resort.  God is always the one we should head to first.  This doesn't make the use of medicine or doctors or anything like that wrong, but it is God we must first come to.  Medicine itself is crafted from God's own creation.  Without God placing on earth the very ingredients He knew we would need we wouldn't have those medicines to begin with.  In essence, even if it is science or medicine/etcetera that actually cured us it is through God that such took place.

The Centurion is an awesome story.  First off, the centurion was not a Jew.  Secondly, he recognized something the Jews did not (and should have)...Christ's authority and His supreme ability to command with that authority.  The centurion mentioned to Christ that he had a boss to whom he had to obey all orders and he had those under his command who had to obey his orders and because of this he knew that if Christ commanded that ailment be healed, then it would have to be healed.  In essence, the centurion recognized Christ's authority over life and all matter.  To this Christ responded that there was not one of greater faith in the land.  A non-Jew centurion had recognized the power and authority of the Son of God when the Jews could not.  I can't help but like to think that centurion probably came to salvation after Christ's crucifixion.  It's an awesome story and I love to read it.

jasonkelli : oh now i understand bekause i thougt you talked to god

Actually, zeldazocker505, God talks to those whose ears are open to hear in the manner He chooses to communicate to them.

jasonkelli :

"Without God placing on earth the very ingredients He knew we would need we wouldn't have those medicines to begin with."

Following the rules of inheritance, what was gods reason for placing uranium on earth, and allowing the creation of plutonium from it? Very little goes further in the opposite direction of healing.
Causality then is he is responsible for the bad things o9n the earth.

Incorrect.  God is not responsible for anything concerning us.  He is perfect and has never committed any evil act.  We are evil and chose evil over purity.  We are in debt to Him, not the other way around.

God through provision of the ingredients necessary to make our lives good here on earth is not responsible for the ways we to choose to use those ingredients.  Take for example a bar of soap.  If you have run out of soap and don't have the money to buy more and I give you a bar of soap, I am not responsible if you choose to carve that bar of soap into a shiv and stab someone to death with it.  You have chosen an irresponsible and evil purpose for it which I never intended.

Uranium is the same.  Uranium has the potential to power the world's energy needs at the cost of pennies.  Instead of paying $200 for electricity you could be paying closer to $2 or $10 instead.  It is because man has chosen to use Uranium for a purpose not initially intended that it has caused the destruction it has.

You can't sentence me for murder in the case of that bar of soap...so why be hypocritical and do the same to God in the case of the uranium?

jasonkelli :
The original purpose of uranium was to blow stuff up...nuclear power came later.
And incidentaly, nuclear power isnt cheap, if you factor in the commision costs, short factory life and waste disposal, it seems cheap because its subsidised.
And it produces waste you cant safely dispose of, so i cant see the good.
You state that everything here is made by god, any good use is down to him, but any bad and hes exempt?
For someone omnipotent he was clearly very short sighted in giving us tools that can also cause great damage, why didnt god just make all elements stable, give us easy energy access?
You state that god gave us the ingredients for medicine, so its him we owe.
Yet you state that if you gave me soap, you arent responsible for how i use it.
Ergo, humans that created the medicine are responsible, not god.
But if you are so sure of god, why not tackle some points i made every individual has avoided? Like why god heals only white nations, and not africa or asia? Many africans are far more devoted christians.

thenumberone, do you actually read people's posts or are you just trolling?  My post clearly states a difference between God's original purpose and man's decision on how to use it.

i.e. God put uranium on earth so we could use it as an energy source.  Man chose to use it as a weapon.  How many uses something doesn't determine its original purpose.  God's reason for placing it here does.  It was never God's intention for man to war with one another over land.  Rather, He gave us the land on this planet for our enjoyment and other humans with whom to be friends and have companionship.  Man, however, has chosen to ignore this original intention and war over land and make enemies with one another.

The fact that man chose to use uranium as a weapon doesn't make that its original purpose.  God placed it here to provide for our needs and that makes it its original purpose since God's placing it here precedes our use of it.

thenumberone :

"The original purpose of uranium was to blow stuff up...nuclear power came later."
Who made that decision?  Do you know the lucky person?  He/she must have been mightily influential!   *chuckles*
Sorry, but I just found that comment to be genuinely humorous.  

More seriously: As Chrisitans, we have confidence in what the God inspired Word tells us, and they tell us that God created all things for good purposes and intents.

Ok, so...just so there is no confusion before I do this.  God placing it here means that uranium's original purpose is the design for which He intended...not what man did.  God's original intent was not for man to bring one another to extinction.  That being said, you stated that uranium was originally used to blow stuff up.  I wanted to look up the historical background for that before responding because while I knew you were incorrect I couldn't remember what man was using it for.

uranium was originally used 79 AD for the purpose of coloring ceramic yellow.

In the middle ages pitchblende (which is a major ore of uranium and radium) was used in the cooling process for glass making.

Research in the early 1930's led to the eventual theory of nuclear fission published in 1939 the focus of which was the creation of energy through the use of nuclear fission.

While it is true that uranium was first used for bombs (1945) while the first nuclear reactor was not until 1951 (only 6 years later) nuclear reactors proved to be far more complicated than that of nuclear weapons.  The purpose of the nuclear weapon being to explode and cause devastation (which it naturally was willing to do) while the object of nuclear reactors being to find a means of keeping the nuclear process stable.  Because of this, research into nuclear energy took longer than that of nuclear weapons and preceded the theories for nuclear weapons.

So...
A) God put it here so His purpose is the original intended use.
B) Man originally used it to color ceramic...not as a weapon.  As a cooling agent in glass making...not as a weapon.  And theorized its beneficial uses before considering its potential as a weapon.

So, both God and man in this regard did not originally intend to use it as a weapon.  We did, it saved far more lives than would have been lost if we didn't.  It proved to be a necessary evil that while would be nice to not exist has in fact saved more lives as a weapon than would have been lost if we had never had it.

jasonkelli :
Pointing out flaws isnt trolling, im sorry if you feel that way but thats your perception.

You keep saying that(not his intention) yet I have to question how an all knowing being couldnt see that coming.
If a kid was col i wouldnt give them a box of matches to keep warm, i know how kids think, its a disaster waiting to happen, id fit a heater or get them blankets.
What i gave them wouldnt also have the potential to remove a significant portion of the planet.
Ok so it had a few previous uses, next question, given that various other things can do those jobs why would he give us it?
And plutonium? What about that?
And you are condoning nuking japanese civilians? Im sure your god who apparently wants to heal everyone, would aprove then.
How do you know god wanted all his creations to be peacefull, only by assumption.
White nations getting healed but non whites ignored? Still nothing? Faith apparently dosent cut it.

A) God does not ignore non-whites.  Your claim that He does is offensive and racist.

B) You didn't point out a flaw.  You tried to claim that uranium's original purpose was to blow stuff people (because people chose to use it that way) when my post was about original purpose (original infers to the first, initial, etcetera.  As God came before man and put the uranium here He actually determines the original intention not man).  Also, you were incorrect about man's first use of it since it was not first used as a weapon at all.  In fact, its first three motivations had nothing to do with weapons.

C) You see a man with a gun.  He has killed 10 people and is about to kill 20 more.  You have one opportunity to save those 20 lives but doing some might result in JUST ONE innocent person dying in the process.  You have a choice.  You can do nothing (which in fact is you killing 20 people since you could have saved them and chose not to) or you can do something which will result in JUST ONE person dying but you save the lives of 20 people.  Yes, 150,000 to 246,000 people died from the dropping of the bombs.

I understand your knowledge of history isn't too strong from your responses thus far so here are some facts.  The Japanese government had issues an order to have all American Prisoners of War put to death if allied troops came close enough to be able to rescue them.  This was against the rules of the Geneva Convention meaning they were in fact committing murder by doing so since the Geneva Convention forbid the killing of PoW's.

Additionally to this, 94% to 99% of Japanese soldiers were dying in each battle.  This is because Japanese soldiers for the most part refused to surrender (their own country would put them to death if they did) and many preferred suicide to capture (for reasons of honor and the fact that Japan's government had threatened to kill any surrendering Japanese soldier).

Let's look at just TWO battles.  The Battle of Iwo Jima and the defense of Okinawa (April to June of 1945).  In those two battles alone 130,770 Japanese soldiers were killed.  The American troop count for deaths in those two battles combined comes to nearly 19,000.   This makes the total death count for just military troops nearly 150,000.  This means that the bombings of the two cities was around the same deaths as that of just two battles in the entire war.  If the bombs hadn't dropped, the war would have lasted longer and even just three more battles in the war would have put the death count higher than dropping the bombs did.

On top of this, the purpose of dropping the bombs was not to target civilians.  Both cities were targeted due to military production occurring in them.  Japan knew that by law when they put military purposed factories/buildings in the cities that those cities became marked as military targets.  They did it on purpose with the hopes of deterring the allies from attacking their military buildings.  They hoped by doing so that they could protect their buildings by using their own civilians as body shields much in the same way that a criminal might hold an innocent person hostage in front of them to deter police from firing at them.  The problem is, protecting the Japanese body shields would have resulted in more deaths than taking out the military sites.

The dropping of the bombs did no more damage than 1 or 2 battles in the war would have.

However, I really want to restate this.  To imply that God heals only whites/white nations is wrong.  It is racist, offensive, and unBiblical.  If God was a racist (and He is not) He would be healing non-whites before healing whites.  After all, those He chose on earth as His chosen people (Israel) were from Africa and dark skinned.  Thus rendering your claim (just as with your claim with uranium) completely false and without basis.

A:
Look at statistics. Compare mortality in white nations with that of black or asian ones. Me stating that isnt racist, its an observation. If i indicated this was because whites are superior, that would be racist.
B:
And in terms of original purpose i conceded i missed the mark, i am now aware of it, and am enquiring why god created plutonium? Maybe you can find a previous use to bombs?

C: so killing civilians is ok? Do you support the taliban?because thats there tactic too. I can almost guarantee i know more history than you, it is something i study for fun. I learn more, everyday.

I know those facts, but in picking up a gun, you have made a choice to take part.
Civilians are trying to live there lives.
A scenario. I have your familly. I kill one and demand you and your 2 friends surrender. You refuse. I kill a 2nd. Maybe both children.you and your 2 friends surrender, and its therefore a victory. Only 2 deaths. Yet those 2 that paid the ultimate price were mostly blameless. Thats ok? Im glad you arent a general...
Because thats what the nuking was. State terrorism.
Pursuing this seems like a major topic tangent but id give you 2 more points.
1. The usa banned asian imigrants before the second world war and
2 started throwing asians in camps before any war broke out.
But hey, what do i know of history.
Incedentaly, israel is in the middle east, not africa. Given thats where the bible originated id expect you to know that.
Sudan, chad, nigeria, zimbabwe, rwanda, thailand, india, look at a map.
The one non white nation with comparable health rates is japan.
Maybe god is real, maybe heaven and hell are, but if you want healed put your faith im doctors, they dont get the credit they deserve.