My uncle is an incredibly religious Christian. Another uncle of mine (his brother) is gay. The religious uncle tries to "save" the gay uncle whenever they encounter each other by preaching about how homosexuality is a sin, but he can still be saved if he apologizes, etc.

I've come out to only two people in my life and when the time comes, I have no idea how to explain to my uncle that I disagree with whatever he will say. I've faced hatred from people on YouTube and bounced it back as their ignorance, etc, but I can't use that on my uncle.

I've decided to ask Vizzed via the Christianity forum about this. What compels some Christians to be so against homosexuality? Is there a basis for it in the Bible?


Sorry in advance if I am somehow offending someone by placing the thread here. I wasn't sure if I would get many Christian based responses if I put it in the Debate Forum.

there are about 4-6 scriptures that I could probably find that explain that Christians (and Jews) consider homosexuality a sin. However, I don't think there is much of a debate in that area. I agree that I think homosexuality is a sin and you shouldn't do it.

However, most of us don't live under a theocracy and are free to do many things freely if we want. Homosexuality is one of those things. Christians are free to disagree with homosexuality and even use legal/political channels to fight against it. I personally feel that with so many other things in life that I disagree with (drinking, abortion, drugs) I would rather allow people a safe environment to do these things. You're not going to "save" anyone by demonizing them and making them feel like they are bad.

My other issue with the way homosexuals are treated (especially by people professing to be Christians) is the amount of hate that seems to be there. Jesus says to love your neighbour and do good to them that harm you and so many other things like that. I think if you are truly a Christian and truly want to try and save someone then you need to love them rather than judge them. That's the only way you'll get through as a Christian. And even then you may not... but at least you've done good rather than bad by the relationship.

Some of the examples geeogree mentioned:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." (emphasis added)

Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Now, especially with the last verse, I'm not advocating violence or hatred, but it is plainly spelled out in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. I won't go so far as to personally insult homosexual people or anything, but I will not accept it as anything but an abomination and perverse twisting of a gift from God.

It is very important to note that homosexuality is no different to any other sin. One possible reason that more people point out homosexuality more is because it is a lot easier to point out "bigger" or "more unnatural" sin than to point out "smaller" sin, when there is no such thing as "bigger" or "smaller" sins. Another possible reason is that they probably forgotten that they were sinners before they are saints, and forgotten that they need forgiveness and grace as much as the homosexual.

As for what you describe about what your uncle did, I actually don't have a problem with what he does (again, this is from what you described, I don't know the extent of how he did it). Talking about homosexuality as a sin is what Christianity believes. If he is saying that it is the "worst" of any sins, then he is proclaiming false theology. But if he is saying that it is a sin, just like how he himself is a sinner, then I have no problem with it. Because it is sin. Your uncle would probably talk about how he needs forgiveness of sins as much as any other sinner. If he cares for someone, he would talk about sin and how to obtain forgiveness. (It's like a firefighter coming to save a person in a house on fire. You have to use words like "run" "fire" "You're gonna die" in order to warn them about it. This situation is no different.)

I'm sure all of you have heard of the so-called Christian church, Westboro Baptist Church. You can tell their stance on homosexuality based on their website domain names. Their actions are nowhere close to being Christian like and we should not act that way. They have been listed as a cult rather than a denomination of Christianity. It's not just on their actions towards homosexuality, but also on their misguided theology.

To sum up, I agree with Geeo that true Christians are to show love. This reminds me of that Christian song: "and they'll know we are Christians by our love"

From an outsiders historical and anthropological prospective... if it will help you to understand it better... the reason that the Torah/Bible/Koran declare homosexuality to be a sin was because it does not beget children (same reason why masturbation is a sin, but most Christians seem to be fine with that now). The need for children in Biblical times was much greater than it is now... you no longer need to have seven to ten children to run your farm or craft because medicine has advanced so that the majority do not die before adulthood, and most people don't do hard labor anymore in places like America anyway... and if they do they have machines to help them. The world is overpopulated and the small percentage of gays will not threaten it even if birth rates plummet. The reason that it is still an issue is because it makes you different. Humans have always gone after the minority, be it minority of race, religion, creed, handedness (for example in the Witch Hunts you were suspect if you were a lefty), gender, or sexuality.

Honestly, your uncle can believe whatever he wants, but if he is belligerent to his own brother by constantly preaching to him every time he sees him then he is a poor brother indeed. My mother has issues with my being a Witch, and told me I was going to hell the first time she found out... but she has not brought it up since. She stated her feelings and let it drop, because constantly bringing it up would only drive a wedge between us and she knows it. She also knows better than to argue with me over it because I beat her in logical debates every time.

Elara : "From an outsiders historical and anthropological prospective... if it will help you to understand it better... the reason that the Torah/Bible/Koran declare homosexuality to be a sin was because it does not beget children..."

I think it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the will of God. If practicality was the rationale behind the existence of sin, then God wouldn't have bothered declaring lust a sin. Sex between males and females begets children, no? God asked Adam and Eve to live a certain way. Well, not just asked, he expected them to. He knew the consequences if they didn't. We sometimes don't really understand why God forbids certain things, but we don't have the same eternal perspective that God does. A simple action to us can have ramifications we can't anticipate, both in the physical and spiritual realm. Therefore the question of whether homosexuality (in thought as lust and as lust in practice) is a sin should be answered with: Is it the will of God? We see in the scriptures that it is not God's will...not in the benign sense of "Does God want me to play tennis or go swimming today?" But in the sense that it is the anti-thesis of what God laid down as the rules for sexual relationships. Sin is not simply defined as right or wrong, it is an action, thought or attitude that separates us from God. Original sin was so simple...and it was merely disobedience to God. The consequences of that? Death. No fault of God's. Our free will presented the problem of our self-imposed destruction and God planned to fix it from the very beginning. That fix was Jesus.

While I believe there is a scriptural basis against the practice of homosexuality, I think that the fault of many Christians is an overemphasis on the act and lifestyle of homosexuals and not enough on the sins of the spirit. The New Testament says outright that Spiritual sins are worse than Physical. However, if we Christians point the finger at those committing the physical sins we won't have to evaluate our own spiritual sins; one of self-righteousness comes to mind. It's kind of a warped sense of self-protection. We all do it.

I believe the reason your having trouble understanding the case for a non-homosexual lifestyle is in your symantics. The Church as a whole has far too long been "anti" anything before they are "pro" anything else. Of course, I am talking in a general sense over all of history.

A group that deals well with homosexuality is Exodus International. The group loves first and calls on second when it seems the Church is quick to call on and move on. Without love, nothing matters. Meaning if I am not committed to you and you to me, how can we call each other out of our weaknesses and struggles or even share in our victories?

Also, an author by the name of Joe Dallas is a great resource to better understand the topic.

play4fun :
geeogree :

I will not give my two cents on the issue as the OP was asking for input from Christians... I just wanted to say I like your responses very much. I think more people need to look at it that way.

ChosenDagger : "The Church as a whole has far too long been "anti" anything before they are "pro" anything else."

Although I totally agree that Christians are just as guilty as anyone of deflecting attention away from themselves onto the easily marginalized gay community, I would argue that Christ first attended to sinners. While I think Churches should put aside their self-righteous prejudices when dealing with sinners of all types, I think explaining the urgency of Salvation still needs to be a Church priority.

Middlemorr: "While I think Churches should put aside their self-righteous prejudices when dealing with sinners of all types, I think explaining the urgency of Salvation still needs to be a Church priority."

I couldn't agree more, but without love the Gospel sounds like it is judgement alone without concern. Judgement isn't a bad thing unless it is without love; which everything, if not coupled with the love of Christ is. (I could get into a whole deal about judgement not being bad, but that's a different thread.) It seems more like someone saying that they are better than instead of the same as.

We are all just beggars showing other beggars where to find bread.

Middlemoor : "Antithesis", no hyphen needed. Also, banishment from Eden was the punishment for Original Sin, not death. Oh, and the laws you speak of were not handed to Adam and Eve but to Moses.

As for the rest... there are lots of points I can make, but I am not getting dragged into a major debate here. I have said what I want to, and that is that.

There are a lot of people who do not consider me a Christian for my views. I tell people I am a religious person but they disagree because I do not go to church. But I believe you can be religious without going to church. I simply stopped going because no matter what church I go to, I find some particular group that is oppressed or condemned. So I follow a life I believe Jesus would approve of and go by my own interpretations. 

Before I start, I had one question. The topic of homosexuality being a sin because it doesn't beget children confuses me. By that logic, that would mean that marrying a man or woman who is infertile is a sin because that sex can't have children. So shouldn't anyone who disagrees with homosexuality because it doesn't beget children be against marriage between a heterosexual couple who can't have kids?

I have no problem with homosexuality. I actually do not believe that homosexuality is truly a sin. The popular scripture saying that a man shall not lay with another man a major debate in the bible among linguists and translators. There are a large number of translators that say that it was not translated in the proper context (won't go into what some of the common alternate translations are). But regardless, the thing that gets people against me is when I point out that you can't follow EVERYTHING in the bible because it is impossible. You will find scripture that promotes the eye for an eye point of view, and you will find Jesus's teaching of turn the other cheek. That is just one example. But the reason why there are so many branches of religion is not only because of interpretation, but because you do have to choose what you decide to believe. I am no different. I have also picked what I choose to believe in the bible. I decided that if I consider myself a Christian, I will follow the teachings Jesus made such as loving others as you love yourself. Love your enemies. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there in that? 

BNuge : But on to your dilemma. My advice might be hard to take in, and I understand if this isn't the option for you. You obviously love your uncle, or else you wouldn't be so afraid to be open to him about this part of yourself. But in my opinion, you should not have to hide who you are. Be proud of who you are. What you feel, is not a lust, as others seem to say. You had no more choice to be a homosexual as I did to be heterosexual. It isn't like you woke up and decided you wanted to be gay. You just feel for the same sex as I do the opposite. It is okay. Love should have no boundaries. It is okay if your uncle does not agree with what you are. He can still love you as his nephew even though he doesn't agree with you. The hard part of my advice is that if someone cannot love you because of who you are, then you shouldn't have to please them. But the label of a Christian is that you believe in Jesus as your savior and follow his teachings. If your uncle is a true Christian, he will love you anyway. I will not say to not be afraid, because it is scary. And if you do not take my advice, it does not make you a coward. But denying your opinions and who you are is a lie, and you shouldn't have to do so just to make others accept you. Good luck to you, and God bless.

I am a Christian myself, and I do believe in the word of God. But unlike many other Christians, I don't see the Bible as being entirely reliable. Over the years, the Bible has been re-written and re-written by hundreds of scholars. Now each of those scholars had their own biases. I find it impossible to believe that every single scholar that re-wrote the Bible kept to the original scriptures completely. Somewhere along the line, someone added in something that wasn't supposed to be there.

Case in point: 2 Samuel 12:11

11 Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.

In this passage, God is condoning rape. Now why would God deem this okay if he is the kind and loving God that we all know he is. He wouldn't. But a perverted scribe who wished for justification for his crimes would certainly add this in to make rape seem okay. (And this passage is not taken out of context. Look for yourselves)

It's the same with God supposedly saying that homosexuality is wrong. I don't believe for a second that God would send a man to hell for being gay. I think that a prejudiced scribe added this into the Bible because he didn't like homosexuals.

So to answer your question: The reason so many Christians have problems with homosexuality is because so many of them believe that everything in the Bible is accurate. I don't.

There's my two cents. You guys can like it or hate it. It's all the same to me.

I am a Christian, and yes, I do believe that Homosexuality is wrong. But Gluttony is also a sin...and I love my all you can eat buffets . I would be mad if they made those buffets illegal because Gluttony is a sin. I believe Sloth is a sin, but I couldn't imagine them making staying on your computer for more than an hour for anything other than work illegal. That is why I have no problem with Homosexuality, and for that matter Homosexual marriage being legal. 

geeogree : I agree for the most part with what you said, accept for Abortions. I see those as murder, so it's a little different. Other than that though, I agree that as Christians we are called to lover our fellow man no matter what. We aren't supposed to hate people because they sin, because we are ALL sinners. Me going to a buffet is just as much a sin in the eyes of God as being a homosexual is. I'm not perfect, so I shouldn't hate other people for not being perfect.