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Genesis Confusion
A few things don't make sense to me.
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Genesis Confusion

 

01-07-11 11:29 PM
Golvellius is Offline
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I've been reading Genesis and there are a few things that don't make sense to me. Hopefully I can get some straight forward answers without people twisting words and meanings like people always do because they can't explain something. I don't want to compare with other verses and go off on a tangent, oh but this says that etc. I want to know about these verses on there own.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

* Who are they ? Is there more than one God ? There are a few other verses that refer to "us".

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

* According to this Adam and Eve aren't the first to be created (first experiment). Why tell them to "replenish" the earth if they were the first to be made ? Were there people before them that didn't survive ? Older civilisations ? Older humanoids ?
Replenish - Fill something up again. Or, restore a stock or supply of something to the former level or condition.
The same thing is said to Noah after the flood, but this makes sense because God killed everyone so inbreeding had to occur to replenish the earth.


Genesis 4:11-17
11,And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12,When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13,And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14,Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15,And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16,And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17,And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

* Cain says punishment is too severe, and if anyone finds him they'll kill him. Who's gonna kill him ? There is no one else on earth except Adam, Eve, himself. Does this mean some other form of human has already inhabited the earth ? Ancient man, ancient civilisations ? Cain even convinces God that there are other people out there who might kill him. So God puts a mark on Cain. Now everyone will know who he is and the punishment is sevenfold if someone kills him. Who's gonna see him ? his parents already know who he is.
After this Cain gets a wife, where did she come from ?


I've been reading Genesis and there are a few things that don't make sense to me. Hopefully I can get some straight forward answers without people twisting words and meanings like people always do because they can't explain something. I don't want to compare with other verses and go off on a tangent, oh but this says that etc. I want to know about these verses on there own.

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

* Who are they ? Is there more than one God ? There are a few other verses that refer to "us".

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

* According to this Adam and Eve aren't the first to be created (first experiment). Why tell them to "replenish" the earth if they were the first to be made ? Were there people before them that didn't survive ? Older civilisations ? Older humanoids ?
Replenish - Fill something up again. Or, restore a stock or supply of something to the former level or condition.
The same thing is said to Noah after the flood, but this makes sense because God killed everyone so inbreeding had to occur to replenish the earth.


Genesis 4:11-17
11,And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12,When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13,And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14,Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15,And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16,And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17,And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

* Cain says punishment is too severe, and if anyone finds him they'll kill him. Who's gonna kill him ? There is no one else on earth except Adam, Eve, himself. Does this mean some other form of human has already inhabited the earth ? Ancient man, ancient civilisations ? Cain even convinces God that there are other people out there who might kill him. So God puts a mark on Cain. Now everyone will know who he is and the punishment is sevenfold if someone kills him. Who's gonna see him ? his parents already know who he is.
After this Cain gets a wife, where did she come from ?


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01-08-11 01:12 AM
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I will try my best to answer this with the best of my abilities.

1. Genesis 1:26

This verse is one of the verses that talks about God as a trinity. God has called Himself "we" and "our" in other verses too.

2. Genesis 1:28
I'm assuming you are using the King James Version. Know that some words have different meanings at different times. The word "Replenish" actually meant "to fill" at that time instead of refill. Few of the older versions use the word "replenish." It does not mean "refill" but "fill." A majority of Bible versions use "to fill", like NIV, NKJV, ESV (which claims to be the closest word-for-word translation to modern language to date).

Don't believe me? Let's actually go back to the original language itself. (It is good to look up Strong's Concordance to understand the meaning of a word in the original language) Genesis was originally written in Hebrew. The Hebrew word we are looking at is the word "male" (not the English "male", but the Hebrew "מָלָא"). The word "male" means "to fill, be full". So the verse is basically telling them to fill the earth.

3. Genesis 4:11-17
If you read onward to chapter 5, it says that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The other people are basically Adam and Eve's other sons and daughters, and their sons and daughters. When talking about where did Cain get his wife, Adam and Eve's children basically intermarry. One might say, "doesn't God condemn that?" If we all are from Adam and Eve, then when we marry, we basically are intermarrying. If you look at Abraham, he married his half-sister. It is not wrong at that time till God condemned during the time of Moses.
I will try my best to answer this with the best of my abilities.

1. Genesis 1:26

This verse is one of the verses that talks about God as a trinity. God has called Himself "we" and "our" in other verses too.

2. Genesis 1:28
I'm assuming you are using the King James Version. Know that some words have different meanings at different times. The word "Replenish" actually meant "to fill" at that time instead of refill. Few of the older versions use the word "replenish." It does not mean "refill" but "fill." A majority of Bible versions use "to fill", like NIV, NKJV, ESV (which claims to be the closest word-for-word translation to modern language to date).

Don't believe me? Let's actually go back to the original language itself. (It is good to look up Strong's Concordance to understand the meaning of a word in the original language) Genesis was originally written in Hebrew. The Hebrew word we are looking at is the word "male" (not the English "male", but the Hebrew "מָלָא"). The word "male" means "to fill, be full". So the verse is basically telling them to fill the earth.

3. Genesis 4:11-17
If you read onward to chapter 5, it says that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The other people are basically Adam and Eve's other sons and daughters, and their sons and daughters. When talking about where did Cain get his wife, Adam and Eve's children basically intermarry. One might say, "doesn't God condemn that?" If we all are from Adam and Eve, then when we marry, we basically are intermarrying. If you look at Abraham, he married his half-sister. It is not wrong at that time till God condemned during the time of Moses.
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Genesis 1:26
I thought there was no trinity in the Old Testament. The trinity was a concept In the New Testament when Jesus came along. Jews don't believe In the trinity, they believe In only one God. YHWY Elohim, YHWY is One.

Genesis 1:28
I know many people would debate it but i thought the original King James Version is the most accurate Bible. Any time a new version of the Bible is written it must have a number of differences in order to be considered a revised version. Most all other Bibles do not even have all of the verses that are in the King James Version. The King James Version was translated out of the original tongues. It appears to me that with each translation, a bit different version or interpretation exists. That aside i checked out the original word and found once again that no one can agree on it. Obviously I don't speak Hebrew so excuse me while I use this example i found just to show you another point of view (not necessarily my own) If I didn't find other points of view on this i would have believed you straight away.

"replenish" is a permissible translation of the Hebrew, mâlê. Both "fill" and "refill" are legitimate translations since the translators had a choice to make in translating God's mandate as given to Adam.
As a matter-of-fact, in the King James Old Testament, mâlê was translated "replenish" or "replenished" only seven times. In six of these instances, "replenish" was indeed a more appropriate rendering than "fill." The most obvious is at Genesis 9:1, in which God told Noah to "replenish the earth" after the Flood.
But what about God's previous command to Adam? Why did the translators decide to use "replenish" there when "fill" would seemingly have been more appropriate? Did these good men have some reason to think there just might have been a pre-Adamite population and therefore it would be on the safe side to use the alternate meaning "replenish"?
This question becomes more relevant when we note that they always elsewhere used "fill" or "filled" or "full" or some such variation except when it was obvious that "replenish" was a better choice.
It turns out that they translated mâlê by "fill" no less than 33 times, by "filled" at least 73 times, by "full" some 97 times, and even by "fulfill" or "fulfilled" at least 27 times.
So why did they not use "fill" instead of "replenish" in connection with the vitally important dominion mandate recorded in Genesis 1:28? That was the first time mâlê was used in the Bible, and it was surely important to get it right there! Did they actually have some reason to think they should at least allow the possibility of pre-Adamites in this beginning chapter of God's Book?"

Sorry to use someone elses chunk of info but i couldn't have explained that myself. Not only that, but there always seems to be numerous points of view on many things in the bible. So I'm stumped once again.

Genesis 4:11-17
I understand what happens in Chapter 5 but I'm talking about what happened before that. In the sequence of events that occured Cain got his wife before Adam and Eve got busy. I actually did think that Incest was forbidden In the bible, I'm I could find stories about it. So basically you're saying that incest was ok for Adam and Eve but not after ? If this Is true this is strange but it wouldn't matter anyway because the damage has already been done. Everyone would be related after that anyway. You and me are related. All Vizzers are related.

What about Cain convincing God that there are people out in the world that might kill him. God put a mark on him. If there is no one else in the world then who could possibly kill cain ? What is he afraid of ?

Just one last thing while i remember. In another post you spoke (i think it was you lol) about people always knowing right from wrong because God put it in our hearts. I debated and said God has nothing to do with it...anyway, Since when has Incest ever been ok ? You only have to look at what happens when people have incestual relations today. This opens up a tonne of other questions in itself. I think it has always been wrong, God must have known this and because Adam and Eve ate from the tree surely they would know this too.






Genesis 1:26
I thought there was no trinity in the Old Testament. The trinity was a concept In the New Testament when Jesus came along. Jews don't believe In the trinity, they believe In only one God. YHWY Elohim, YHWY is One.

Genesis 1:28
I know many people would debate it but i thought the original King James Version is the most accurate Bible. Any time a new version of the Bible is written it must have a number of differences in order to be considered a revised version. Most all other Bibles do not even have all of the verses that are in the King James Version. The King James Version was translated out of the original tongues. It appears to me that with each translation, a bit different version or interpretation exists. That aside i checked out the original word and found once again that no one can agree on it. Obviously I don't speak Hebrew so excuse me while I use this example i found just to show you another point of view (not necessarily my own) If I didn't find other points of view on this i would have believed you straight away.

"replenish" is a permissible translation of the Hebrew, mâlê. Both "fill" and "refill" are legitimate translations since the translators had a choice to make in translating God's mandate as given to Adam.
As a matter-of-fact, in the King James Old Testament, mâlê was translated "replenish" or "replenished" only seven times. In six of these instances, "replenish" was indeed a more appropriate rendering than "fill." The most obvious is at Genesis 9:1, in which God told Noah to "replenish the earth" after the Flood.
But what about God's previous command to Adam? Why did the translators decide to use "replenish" there when "fill" would seemingly have been more appropriate? Did these good men have some reason to think there just might have been a pre-Adamite population and therefore it would be on the safe side to use the alternate meaning "replenish"?
This question becomes more relevant when we note that they always elsewhere used "fill" or "filled" or "full" or some such variation except when it was obvious that "replenish" was a better choice.
It turns out that they translated mâlê by "fill" no less than 33 times, by "filled" at least 73 times, by "full" some 97 times, and even by "fulfill" or "fulfilled" at least 27 times.
So why did they not use "fill" instead of "replenish" in connection with the vitally important dominion mandate recorded in Genesis 1:28? That was the first time mâlê was used in the Bible, and it was surely important to get it right there! Did they actually have some reason to think they should at least allow the possibility of pre-Adamites in this beginning chapter of God's Book?"

Sorry to use someone elses chunk of info but i couldn't have explained that myself. Not only that, but there always seems to be numerous points of view on many things in the bible. So I'm stumped once again.

Genesis 4:11-17
I understand what happens in Chapter 5 but I'm talking about what happened before that. In the sequence of events that occured Cain got his wife before Adam and Eve got busy. I actually did think that Incest was forbidden In the bible, I'm I could find stories about it. So basically you're saying that incest was ok for Adam and Eve but not after ? If this Is true this is strange but it wouldn't matter anyway because the damage has already been done. Everyone would be related after that anyway. You and me are related. All Vizzers are related.

What about Cain convincing God that there are people out in the world that might kill him. God put a mark on him. If there is no one else in the world then who could possibly kill cain ? What is he afraid of ?

Just one last thing while i remember. In another post you spoke (i think it was you lol) about people always knowing right from wrong because God put it in our hearts. I debated and said God has nothing to do with it...anyway, Since when has Incest ever been ok ? You only have to look at what happens when people have incestual relations today. This opens up a tonne of other questions in itself. I think it has always been wrong, God must have known this and because Adam and Eve ate from the tree surely they would know this too.






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(edited by Golvellius on 01-08-11 08:10 AM)    

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