I hear this many times when talk to people about what their faith is. I get a response like: "Oh, I'm raised Lutheran, I'm raised Baptist...I'm raised whatever..." When I hear something like that, and then probe a little further on what they really believe, 9 out of 10 times, in reality, they don't really believe in Christianity at all.

Beliefs are not a cultural thing. This is what you belief to be true, and it has nothing to do with what you are raised as (you may be influenced by it, but it does not complete decide that) It's not an automatic deal that "if you live in a house that is Christian, you are a Christian." A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the only way, not because you live in a family that goes to church every Sunday.

I heard two ways describe this:

Working in a fast-food restaurant does not make you a hamburger...

Or like this, let's say your dad is a pilot. Just because he is a pilot does not mean that you are, or will be a pilot. You need to BECOME a pilot (or you choosing to learn) to be a pilot.

Comments?

I was taught in my childhood the gospel and it stuck with me throughout my life as my mom was & is a Christian. So I always thought 'I hope I go to heaven, if I just confess my sins God will forgive me.' When I surrendered my life to Christ, man did I have a rude awakening. After I started actually reading the Bible, these verses really got my attention: 'The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!' ( Matthew 6:22, 23) I took this as 'I thought I was OK because I was raised Christian,' but my light was really darkness. And I was further convicted & convinced of this: ' If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.'( Matthew 16:24, 25) I needed to go from Christian to a Christian.

Religion is no doubt shoved down peoples throats. Whether your parents force you into it or if your just renting a hotel room people will always try to tempt you into it. Its better to learn yourself then to learn from others.

"Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the only way."

I'd rather say God is the only way, not Jesus.

Juliet : ...but Jesus is the only way, through His death on the cross. There's no avoiding it.
JigSaw : If you don't learn from others, you won't learn the real truth .

bigNATE : So you worship Jesus and not God? I thought it was against the rules to worship saints? And Jesus is a saint he is not God.

JigSaw : Christians believe that Jesus IS God.

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

Didn't you learn this in Catholic school?

Juliet : Jesus made this claim that He is the only way. "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

The Bible also talks about the other gods don't even exist. When talking about Baal and the idol gods during Israel's time, this is what He said about the idols.

“They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by men's hands.” (2 Kings 19:18)

JigSaw : You seem to know nothing of the Christian faith .
Might I refer you to this thread? You've posted in there before, you ought to know our arguments.
play4fun : ^this is why we need that thread go ahead and make it soon, just summon me and I'll sticky it.

I happen to be part of the camp that believes just because you were raised on Christianity doesn't make you a christian. Becoming a christian is a personal choice and not something automatic. I suppose you could say someone who was raised christian would be somewhat more knowledgeable and privileged because being raised christian he would have more of an understanding of scripture than someone who didn't grow up in a christian home. I think it would also not be as hard on someone who was raised christian as it would be for someone who wasn't raised on Christianity.

Careful bigNATE, a friendly warning. Telling someone they know nothing of Christianity was part of why I was banned one of those times.

play4fun : Jesus never said “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)"

Seems like John said it instead, also more proof that Jesus is NOT god. He simply said no one comes to the father except through me. So his father would be god not him.

And if that quote were really true, how do you explain people reaching god before Jesus was on earth? How do you explain adam and eve talking to god when jesus did not exist yet?

JigSaw Jesus is God, he even claims it when he says "I and the Father are one". He also claims it when he says "Before Abraham was, I AM".

Jesus is a human not God there is a big difference there. He could have created "Christianity" at the beginning of times but didn't. Why? Cause he either made a mistake or Jesus is not really god.

Jesus said this before he died "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."

More proof Jesus is NOT god he is clearly talking to a higher entity then him.

He also said "Father, why hast Thou forsaken me?"

So this is good enough proof that Jesus is not God, only his followers believe that but maybe people should listen to what Jesus actually said and not listen to all those quotes people wrote in the bible making him look like a god when he is just a saint.

I've never heard of a saint being called 'the Son of God.'

JigSaw : What the heck! You're denying a Bible passage as non-existent?! JigSaw, if you were really listening to what Jesus said, you would believe He and God are one! I suggest you actually read up on Christianity and our beliefs as well as find Bible passages that actually claim Jesus is only human. What you've done is give examples of the Trinity. woohoo, that had nothing to do with the current discussion .
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:1). That renders your entire argument so far disputed.
If you can find verses stating clearly that Jesus is not God, I'll be willing to continue this discussion, but as of right now... no.
Also, you are a good illustration of the meaning of the thread, aren't you? Weren't you raised Catholic, yet now are... well, I don't know what you are exactly, but you sure as heck ain't Catholic.

JigSaw : This is interesting...in my first reply to your post, I gave you Isaiah 9:6, mentioning Jesus as "MIGHTY GOD," and you did not reply to it.

As for your comment about John 14:6, I'll expand it to the context of John 14:5-7 and analyze it further...

"5Thomas said to him, 'Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?'
6Jesus answered, 'I am THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES to the Father EXCEPT through me. 7If you really KNEW me, you would KNOW MY FATHER as well. From now on, you do KNOW him and have SEEN him.'" (John 14:5-7)

2 things you should note:
1. Look at the verse after it, Jesus said that if you know Him, you would know the Father as well. Even after these quoted verses, Jesus said that if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father. Clearly Jesus is talking more than just going to the father.
2. The context is set with Jesus' discussion with His disciples. John as a witness of what has happened when he was with him, recorded these conversations. So John did not say it himself.

Also, notice that in the Bible, there were so many times that Jesus was worshiped. Now in that Jewish culture, they know they should not worship other gods and they are very strict and very convicted by this knowledge that they should not worship other gods, and yet them came to Jesus and worshiped him. If Jesus Himself did not think He is God Himself, he would have told people to stop worshiping Him, EVEN ANGELS in the Bible would tell people not to worship them when they appear, because they are not God, but Jesus accepted their worship. THIS IS WHY C.S. LEWIS MADE THIS COMMENT ABOUT JESUS, that you cannot just call Jesus a moral teacher. He made a claim, and with that claim, He is either "A LUNATIC, A LIAR, OR LORD."

It would not make sense for me to say "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." when you are the father / god. This is like me saying "JigSaw, into your hands I commit my spirit."

His dying words sum up who he is. I'm only giving you what he said before he died, you can give me 1000 more quotes the fact is Jesus said it himself he is not God he was reaching out to a higher entity just before he died.

JigSaw : Did you read Psalm 22:1 in the Old Testament? He was quoting from that verse in its exact phrasing. Psalm 22 as a whole is also a prophetic message on Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, so your quote does not disprove that He is God, but actually in great detail proved that Jesus is God and talked about His sacrifice for mankind.

Jigsaw, just because you can't understand why he acknowledged his "Father" does not make him different than God. You're judging it from a human perspective that God can't be Jesus because he is his father.

JigSaw : So, is He contradicting Himself now? Because you don't understand the meaning behind one phrase that is in no way pointing to Him not being God (might I refer you to this little thing called the Trinity?), when He claims several times that He is God.
I also need to clear something up from my last post . I accidentally (having learned these two together) tacked on a portion of John 1:14 to the end of my quote without giving the real reference. Here's the two verses in their entirety:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth" (John 1:1, 14)

You have to judge him from a human perspective cause he was human at the time when he said these things. He might be "apart of god" but that does not make him god. People can look at it how they want but to ME Jesus is not god, he is apart of god but that does not make him god. Jesus is gods creation. God does not need to turn into a human just to prove something he can easily do it other ways so I think Jesus is just a disciple of God not God himself.

This is MY OPINION, I'm not forcing anyone to believe it. I'm looking at this in a logical perspective with quotes aside (except his dying quotes). I don't care about all the quotes I just want to look at this from other perspectives.

If I was the CEO of McDonalds I would not make burgers myself I would have people do it for me. That is how I am looking at it. God sent Jesus to do the work for him. That is how it works, that is how the bible got as big as it got other people contributing to it and spreading the word.

God can come down at any moment and spread the word but he chooses not to so he creates Jesus and Jesus spreads the word from him.