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Davideo7
04-30-19 04:12 PM
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05-08-19 09:22 AM

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Potential Adjustments to 'User Levels'

 

04-30-19 04:12 PM
Davideo7 is Online
Link | ID: 1372046 | 286 Words

Davideo7
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The 'User Level' (not powerlevel) is one of the only unchanged features left from the original Acmlm Board code so it's been the same way forever. It's based on a user's post count and also how long they've been a member.

My idea is to update it by having it also incorporate CP. Ultimately, the user level should be based on how much a user has done for the site and how much time they've spent on it. Incorporating the CP is the best way to help measure that. I also think it'd make more sense to have it based on post word count rather than just post count.

This is mostly experimental but I put together a new formula which you can see here:
https://www.vizzed.com/dev-tests.php

Here's how much my level would change:
https://www.vizzed.com/dev-tests.php?id=1
(replace the 1 with the ID of any user)

Someone like tRIUNE would have a huge level increase since he has a lot of CP (currently the most). Someone like Eirinn would also have a huge level increase because he has not only a lot of posts, but he averages a lot of words per a post. Here's where it gets interesting. Yuna1000 would have her level nearly tripled because she's posted a lot of words and has a lot of CP (and since she's newer than the other 2 users mentioned, her user level wouldn't be held back as much for not being around as long).

No one's user level would drop as far as I know. Some might have a very small level increase, like Rand53215 (who has never really earned CP), but the goal would be for no one's level to drop.

Let me know what you guys think.
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04-30-19 05:24 PM
pennylessz is Offline
Link | ID: 1372047 | 110 Words

pennylessz
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Be real David, you just want to increase your own level don't you?

On a more serious note. Man, this place has so many text walls. I practically have to put myself in book reading mode to participate in some threads. I imagine that those who are into user levels will probably want to increase their word count, so I'll be seeing more of those. (Maybe.)

I never actually paid attention to them though. I'm just grateful you transferred over the thread code. What exactly is the use for user levels at this point?

Edit: Immediately after typing this, I remembered Vizzed Go. There goes the worth in my question.
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04-30-19 05:50 PM
zanderlex is Offline
Link | ID: 1372049 | 31 Words

zanderlex
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To be honest, I'm not really a fan of changing it that way, because isn't that already pretty much what Contribution Points are for? They're pretty much it's own level system.
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04-30-19 06:31 PM
Barathemos is Offline
Link | ID: 1372057 | 245 Words

Barathemos
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I’m not a huge proponent of user level inflation, among other things. Adding more actions to get user levels sounds interesting and all, but bascially everyone’s level would skyrocket up with the addition of cp. Plus, with the power level system being a board thing, I don’t really see need be to bring in something that’s more RGR/VGR into the equation.

I also, wholeheartedly, disagree with using a word count indicator for anything, ever. Word padding and spamming runs like wildfire on boards where words-per-post matter more than getting a point across. It used to be like that here, mods would be quick to judge someone based upon their words-per-post. You can add just as much to a thread or idea in a shorter, more concise, post than a long drawn-out one. It always annoyed me that the member list’s first results was based off of post-words instead of simply posts. Having more advantages to longer posts would, inevitably, make people post longer, more spacy, posts, and I don’t really want that.

I do agree that longevity shouldn’t matter as much, that tends to bring in elitism. People should be allowed to gain higher ranks even as new members.

In general, I don’t dislike the proposition, however I am concerned that we’re too quick to thrown the Acmlm system by the wayside. A lot of forums still use Acmlm’s way of user databases, he had good ideas and systems, no need to stray too far.
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04-30-19 06:46 PM
EX Palen is Online
Link | ID: 1372058 | 227 Words

EX Palen
Spanish Davideo7
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I agree that including word count into the formula would be a good idea. After all, long and detailed posts/threads should have an impact which reflects the time invested on them, which is clearly not the same as a 30 words post.

About adding CP to the mix as well, I'm kind of torn on that. True, it's another way of measuring how much a user contributes to the site and some users are avid CP hunters, so it would make sense to include it. However, like zander said, they're a league of their own, because contrary to posts, we can actually revoke any spam in CP, essentially meaning that everyone's CP count is fully legit (same goes for words, we can void them if spammed).

I also agree with the fact of longevity. If at all possible, instead of counting for how long a user has been registered for, we could change it to the number of days they've logged in. This way, new members who regularly log in can have a better chance of creeping closer to the veterans.

Just my two cents on the idea. I bet that David has announced this idea because levels are to become relevant, but until that happens we don't need to rush in any changes because the rest of stats are a good measurement of a user's activity.
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05-01-19 07:26 AM
Davideo7 is Online
Link | ID: 1372071 | 483 Words

Davideo7
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pennylessz : Just in case users do think that, my level having a big increase from this is meaningless to me. I already have the highest level and by a big margin already. If anything, this would close the gap between me and those underneath me more since my advantage of being here the longest would no longer be as much of an advantage since your registration date has less weight.

I should also point out that I like the idea of most of the user levels being a little higher so that there's a bigger range of user levels and so we have a bigger spread from level 1 - level 1000 (which is what I envision being the highest potential level).

Increasing your word count wouldn't matter that much. This isn't actually about your average words per post, it's more about your total words. So if User A makes 2 posts that are 100 words each and User B makes 1 post that's 200 words, both users would see the same benefit.

I do agree that too many people write up too big of posts that could have been compressed into much smaller posts. This same thing applies to Private Messages as well. It's part of the reason why it takes me so long to get through my PMs and Notifications, there's too many lengthy things for me to read and respond to. And having ADHD doesn't help.


zanderlex : CP is a measure of contribution where User Level should be a measure of everything with a simplified shortened number.


Barathemos : If it isn't obvious, I've been wanting to incorporate the user levels more. The Vizzed GO game utilized it a lot and a lot of users who have never posted participated in that. If I were to create other games for the site that utilized the user levels, it'd be unfair to those who haven't posted much but have contributed a lot.

Refer to my last paragraph to pennylessz. With the current system, users who don't have a ton of posts but have written a lot of reviews, articles or walkthroughs have lower user levels. So it actually hurts you to invest time into those types of posts with the current user level system.

The Acmlm Board system was good at its time but this site has expanded so much since using it and so a lot of the original aspects of that code aren't really relevant anymore. I'm the only one who sees this, but a lot of the code is sloppy, messy and filled with exploit holes. You also gotta figure that this site started with a much earlier version of that code compared to what later was created. Most of the biggest complaints that newer users have for this site are related to things left over from that original code.


EX Palen : Refer to my 1st paragraph to Barathemos.
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05-01-19 05:09 PM
pennylessz is Offline
Link | ID: 1372081 | 203 Words

pennylessz
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About those PM's. Have you ever considered getting a secretary? You know, someone to read and sort through them, as well as alert you of the important stuff. Maybe your PM's are too personal for that, or potentially it's the opposite. But I certainly had a nicer time here when it was easier to reach you.

I'm on board if you're expanding the user level system's features. I just found the multiple systems linked to posts to be arbitrary. But if they carve out a niche of their own, it's probably better that way. Though I do feel that fixing up the site should take a higher priority. New ideas are exciting, but if don't fix what isn't broken applies, then the opposite should also be true. Personally, I think some of the suggestions in the request section have it right. I submitted a couple myself, but they're redundant as well, because most of what I'd like in the near future has already been suggested.

I don't know, I'd say that there's a long way to go before reaching a sustainable future for Vizzed. However, I'm glad you're still sticking with us. This place has been my Internet home since I was 12.
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05-02-19 06:31 PM
drag00n365 is Offline
Link | ID: 1372099 | 56 Words

drag00n365
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i was originally going to reply about how i thought this was a bad idea. Contribution Points are relatively new from my perspective so it seemed to me like the posts before Contribution Points would be less meaningful.

then i clicked your calculator link, my level will increase to 69 so im all for it now.
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05-07-19 05:53 AM
Davideo7 is Online
Link | ID: 1372159 | 253 Words

Davideo7
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pennylessz : I've thought about giving admins access to my Private Messages but in the past there have been messages about the admins and so there'd be nothing stopping the admins from deleting those PMs so I don't see what was reported about them. Also, a lot of the time it's PMs only I can take care of. I do move PMs to the various staff inboxes when I think it's something they can take care of for me.

I agree with your statement about users having a nicer time when I was easier to reach. I'm still trying to get things to that point.

I plan to work my way through the Site Requests page before the month ends. I'm hoping to get all development related stuff out of the way by June and then spend the summer months not doing much development and focusing on just posting and interacting.

The adjustments to the level system that I proposed would actually only take minutes. It's just a modification of the formula used to calculate the user's levels.

Glad you've stuck around for as long as you have I always like to hear feedback from veterans of the site.


drag00n365 : Actually the Contribution Points have been around since February of 2013 and it was based on the Staff Points (with the points being ported) which I added to the site in early 2011. You've been here forever so you're one of the few who remembers this place not having a Contribution Points system.
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05-07-19 03:19 PM
pennylessz is Offline
Link | ID: 1372180 | 349 Words

pennylessz
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That makes me curious. Couldn't you theoretically make it impossible for an Admin to delete your PM's? You should have control over who has what powers, I'd assume. But the real solution is just finding someone you trust enough. Which it kinda sounds like you'd have a hard time doing from your message. Regardless, I wasn't figuring the Admin would "take care of" most of your PM's. Just the less important ones, while sorting the ones that are more urgent so you can get to them more efficiently. It sounds like you have a mountain after all. It's all food for thought, but perhaps you'll reconsider some day if things take a turn for the worse. Which I sincerely hope doesn't happen.

That's the thing, right? I really do feel that you being part of the community was a huge plus for me. But I want you to be happy and enjoy life, you know? It's a tear between site loyalty and genuine concern for your well being. I'm fine with just the few messages we type in your development threads, but I remember trying to PM you a couple years back, and I never got a reply. Rest in peace, whatever I was asking about.

I'm glad the adjustments will be simple to do. Curiously though, couldn't you have made them rather than spending the time to type all this?

I kinda wish I'd been a more active part of the community. A lot of people arrived in 2013, which is when I disappeared for a few years. Not too many people remember me. It would've been nice to have gotten to know you better as well. Instead of just, you know...Making my own forum, getting banned, becoming staff twice, and quitting twice. I wasn't the greatest of teenagers.
Oh, supersudowoodo and I also ruined the Atari section by accidentally uploading hundreds of watermarked box art images. The box art feature was definitely super rad back then though, it still kind of is. I'd want to do that again if there was very much left to do.
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05-08-19 09:22 AM
Davideo7 is Online
Link | ID: 1372189 | 276 Words

Davideo7
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pennylessz : I could make it possible for admins not to be able to delete my PMs but them reading the PMs would only result into me not ever seeing the PM since it'd be marked as unread. Also, some admins maybe shouldn't know of users reporting them, otherwise that admin might target that user. It's a good idea and something that has been suggested before. I think I need to work out a system where once a week I talk with the admins and/or staff and they bring the most urgent things to my attention.

There's a lot of messages I never got around to reading or responding to. When the site took a huge hit financially, I had to go out and get a full time job outside of Vizzed 2 1/2 years ago and during that entire time, I was just incredibly busy and overwhelmed with so many things. Life inside of Vizzed and outside of Vizzed have been slowly becoming more organized and under control for me over the past few months.

I could have just made the adjustment but the thread was more of a persuasion thread. Any time I have an idea for a feature that has a big impact on the site or one that users might not like, I get opinions and feedback first. It's so easy to upset someone when I make new features or change current features so I try to get everyone on board sometimes to avoid upsetting anyone.

Wow... supersudowoodo is a name I haven't heard in forever. I do remember him but very vaguely. I think I remember you 2 being real life friends?
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