Every once in a while, you're browsing the internet, and you come across another- stupid emotional meme from either a well meaning person, or a crowd follower looking for security and acceptance. The meme/youtubevideo/whatever is about something absolutely ridiculous, and you'd prefer to ignore it, but if you don't, well. . . who else is gonna stand up against that idiocy?

I'm going to be honest with you. When it comes to people like PETA and whatnot. I don't like to talk about them, or give them attention- because they don't deserve it. But, there are people who don't fall into that category of an extreme and actually stick up for things that seem a lot more reasonable.

At first.

What I'm talking to you about today- is an issue not thought of by most gamers perhaps. But it is an issue that comes up every once in a while

Animals rights.


I'm actually a lot more neutral on this than you might think at first. I'm not gonna tell you my ideology here is strong or even Biblically founded. . . because the Bible doesn't have much to say about it. However, it has a few versese I'd like to provide for the food of this conversation, and it might help you to understand my views a little bit better.

Let's begin.

When I think about animals, I don't see much. They are furry, less complicated, simply minded, and fulfill a few different tasks in God's personal (or rented) garden, otherwise known as the earth. Animals compete eat and even cheat. Whatever their original purposes were in the Garden of Eden before the great fall. . .

I dunno. Never studied it that much. I'm not sure why some animals are super violent now and would probably not make very good Christians based on the way they treat their OWN species. But it's interesting when you hear a lot of people speculate on what life was like in the Garden of Eden before death was even a thing- bla bla bla- you get it- BUT it's still something I'd like to note.

In the Torah. (First five books of the Bible) We're told not to muzzle an ox while it treads grain. What does this mean? I think it's quite simple. Don't overwork your animals, and if they need to eat, then let them eat.

Also, it says in Proverbs, that the wise man regards the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.

The Bible seems to say in Genesis that both animals and humans have souls! And in the Story of Balaam, his Donkey was given the ability to speak by Yahovah Himself.


So, I have to ask, just WHAT does all of this really mean?

I've heard stories of animals miraculously saving their humans from fires. I've seen animals carry distinct personalities. . . It's made me question whether they really are just biological machines. And the Bible actually seems to say that they are- in fact- spiritual beings. Who knows, they may even have free will and accountability. I have no idea, and somethings in the Bible seem to simply have been lost in time and the mysteries of Hebrew culture and language.

So yeah, That's the base plate for my views. Want to hear about the views I don't understand?


More abrasive animal rights activists.

I don't understand why butchering chickens should be considered murder by some people. (Although, if you killed an animal for no reason or attempted to have a sacrifice outside the temple, the Torah seems to ascribe THAT as a type of murder. Yeah, No joke!)

But. . . all these people who want to give animals rights. . . well, ridiculous rights. Uh. . . are they not aware of what animals do to each other? I mean, shoot. . . Prairie dogs will eat eac other's babies just to higher their own influence on the gene pool. It's really cruel, and I have to ask. Just how far with these. . . PETA members and worse go? Will they defend mosquito rights? How about bacterium? I think we should look out for our own race and just. . . understand that animals serve a different function. Some are probably more valuable than others, and of course you shouldn't kill for no reason/be cruel towards them.

The Bible is pretty clear about that.

But how does. . . anyone justify this "Oh save all these cute little prairie dogs and kolas from ever being killed again!" logic? Do they not get how nature works or. . . do they just like gratifying their emotions.

Those prairie dogs look cute, but you have NO idea what kind of monsters they are.

Also, what do you think the Bible says about animals, their place and how to treat them? I think I did a good job setting out the base but. . . I could be missing out a lot! XD That's why I'm here to discuss it.


Eirinn :

I thought you might like to talk about this.

Eniitan:

You also crossed my mind.

Zlinqx :

Because controversy is fun, though I think you'll be inclined to agree with me on this one. Oh well.

A user of this :

You too son. B)

Summoned to THIS forum. x__x lol I'll give my two cents I suppose.

Being a vegetarian you might suspect I'd be passionate about animals and killing them, but eh...not really. Not at all in fact.
Like you I try to view what the scriptures have to say about things before even starting to look at it from any other perspective. However we have some very key (and very strong) differences of opinion on what is scripture, so our views will differ in ways.


First of all: "thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn". The Apostle Paul said of this passage " Doth God take care for Oxen? Or saith He it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes no doubt this is written, that he that ploweth should plow in hope, and that he that threasheth should be partaker of his hope" that may not be verbatim as I quoted it from memory, but it's almost spot on if not.
What I take from all of this: it was spoken like many OT things were, as a literal statute that foreshadowed something else entirely. You were not to muzzle your ox as it threashed the wheat etc. so that it could eat of the food as it worked. To make it work all day with food around it but deprive it of eating would be wrong. However it was also foreshadowing the fact that the church would support the ministry's physical needs as they tended to it's spiritual needs.

Still, God did institute a statute to treat the oxen with some respect.


Further, the Bible says that the righteous cares for the life of his beast, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel. So again the Bible seems to imply that good people are respectful of an animal's feelings and needs.


So the way I see it, animals DO deserve humane treatment. They are a beautiful part of the world and should be respected within that aspect. Don't kill them for fun. Don't torture them or kill them in inhumane ways (cooking/skinning/etc. while they're alive still). Even the Jews of days past when sacrificing would do so in the most humane ways they could given their instruments. It wasn't barbaric and excruciatingly painful because they knew that wouldn't be pleasing to The Lord.

What kinds of rights do they deserve? Ii'm not really one to say they deserve certain rights beyond the right to be treated humanely. I also would personally be opposed to killing for sport because again the scriptures seem to indicate that killing of animals is to be for food, not fun.


But yeah the groups that want to argue they deserve all of these rights and should never be killed...meh. The only non-human creature I would be opposed to killing is the ones that were going extinct.

Eirinn :

Well, you actually sound pretty similar to me. Did I miscommunicate or something? Because I'm perplexed where the differences would be! XD

Lol No we pretty much agree on the treatment of animals. I meant on other topics we disagree at times. Most animal references in scriptures fall under the Torah and Proverbs probably so we're more likely to agree there.

The only thing I'd say is that I don't see animals as being spiritual beings in the sense of being able to sin or serve God. They all serve God by doing what he made them to do. I don't really think that morally speaking they have much free will, but they definitely have feelings, emotions, and the ability to process thoughts and exhibit personalities.


But on the topic of rights and proper treatment of them, I agree with you entirely for what I've seen here unless I missed something.

I don't think animals have souls. But we ARE commanded to take care of animals, that is made pretty clear in Genesis. I love and care for animals a lot! As Eirinn pointed out, there were even rules about taking care of them, making them important in God's eyes. Purposeless killing of anything is absolutely horrible, and shouldn't be tolerated. Even when it came to sacrifices, there were guidelines on how to do it, which was painless and quick. Clearly, God puts value on their lives, and cares for them. Jesus talked about how God takes care of the sparrows and the flowers, and Proverbs, Job, and the Torah go a lot farther with animals, and their value. They matter a lot, but in God's eyes, He loves us more. But we are to take care of His other creatures.

But anyway, to your original point, people always invoke your sympathy with animals because people are more often than not, more sympathetic towards them than they are to other people. Animals sometimes do good for their owners. And those are very heartwarming. Animals are capible of loving those that take care of them. And some even are shown to think about people they care about, as with crows bringing shiny objects to those that feed them regularly .

Animals are precious. The more we are considerate for the little things (animals) the better we will treat those more important (people).

Oh you summoned me? Well this is a really good question since I have never thought about it before. I'm not sure what to say to some scale about this. Because its something that you have to really think about.as Christians whats allowed whats not allowed. If that's the case you might not like Nigeria then in a way. I agree with user killing animals for food is not good. But then its human nature for us to eat them. I've never ever really wondered. I eat mostly veggies well Nigerian food is really healthy because of how its made. But then we also have to eat chicken and meat. I feel horrible eating chicken, but then if you like it.....its something people will eat on regardless even if its horrible or not. God does a lot of things there are also limits to them as well and we would normally be shown when that happens.

The Mormon perspective is that, well, as Don Bluth put it, "all dogs go to heaven". But so do all other animals. Every animal has a purpose, and don't share the same accountability we have before God. But even so, they still have feelings, emotions, purposes. To kill them needlessly is a sin. But in this increasingly complicated world, it can be difficult to judge what constitutes need. I feel it's better to err on the side of kindness than to cause harm. But even so, there are lawns to mow, food to protect, animals in pain that would die anyways, Pokemon to catch...OK, I jest with that last one. So basically, animals are here for us, for our benefit. But they're still creatures that can feel. Treating them with respect helps us to build a godly personality. But their bodies can also provide delicious sustenance for ours. Pork, chicken, beef, and more are staples of the American diet. Too much so? Definitely. But even so, they can be used as a great supplement. Some may need meat more than others. Some may depend on it. I admit, I overdo it in the meat department, and I've got to do better about that. But there's also milk, cheese, gelatin and more than comes from animal bodies. These things can be used to make brilliant things such as ice cream and Jell-O.

But that doesn't take away from the truth: We've got a big, wide Earth filled to the brim with plenty and we've wasted so much of it. We've got to do better. God expects it of us. So many of us have a lot while others have next to nothing. That's true of my family, and we definitely need to do better about helping others using the excess we have. We may not be rich by America's standards, but we do well enough to be very well off compared to others.

And, in fact, regarding meat, a scriptural text called the Word of Wisdom is well-known in my Church for being what forbids us from drinking tea, coffee, alcohol, and ingesting tobacco, etc. But I feel few people in our Church focus on this part of it:

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

Times have changed. Meat is mass-produced now. We (in the Church) even encourage meat use to a degree. I don't think us (any of us) meat-eaters need a giant guilt trip (or even any of you that don't eat meat!). But even so, I think anyone in or outside our Church could benefit by thinking about animals more as living creatures that should receive love and respect. Even plants. It's fine to enjoy eating meat. I think just about everyone does, even if they deny it. But we've got to remember where it comes from, no matter what. Life is precious, no matter whose life it is: person, animal, plant, amoeba, whatever.

Remember Matthew 10:31: "Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." The key word there is "many". Killing any creatures unnecessarily, therefore, is not cool.

Sword legion : Animals should be protected. Look at the polar bears now. Almost on the brink of extinction. While animals may be abrasive and generally detached, they are too inconvenienced from humanity. If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. We are naturally obliged to be mindful of animals, seeing as we share the planet with them. Be aware of your given surroundings. Treat animals the way you'd like to be.