tRIUNE :

That is a good point and my main view as well. Its my relationship with Christ that is important. I believe Jesus saved me. But I have also seen his work and healing. As I'm supposed to be dead. But thanks to Christ's Grace I was given a second chance 

Bafara : Islam's god is imperfect.

God is perfectly good. This is something where Islam and Christianity agree. But your conception of God forgets all relational goods. In the beginning there was God and God alone. According to Islam, what did God have authority over? Nothing. What did God love? Nothing. What gave glory to God? Nothing. There literally is nothing else other than God. In Islam, for God to be perfect, he requires creation. Christianity does not have this problem. Co-eternal with the Father is the Son. According to Christianity, what did God have authority over prior to creation? The Son. What did the Father love? The Son. What gave glory to the Father? The Son. There is a perfect system naturally existing within God himself.

Yet Christianity does not teach polytheism. We are monotheists. The Lord our God is one. Ontologically and metaphysically one.

Let's say that Islam attempts to counter this argument and say that God has authority over himself, God loved himself, and God gives glory to himself. Lets pretend those are sufficient answers and lets assume that God is perfectly good. Now we must conclude that relational good are not from God since God cannot blessings he does not have. Marriage, family, friends, authority, humility, wisdom, etc, are all thereby worthless. Or you can be Christian. Instead, God is innately relational, and all relational goods are reflective of God himself.

I'm not here to join in to the argument but I just want to correct a few things here.

Txgangsta : In Islam, God loves those who are obedient to him and a believer. God, also known as "Allah", has authority over everything because in Islam, God created everything. That's also pretty much what gives him glory. 

SoL@R : There are different translations of the Quran but there is only ONE version of the Quran. This one version of the Quran is the Arabic version. There are different translations for other languages for people who don't know Arabic. 

One last thing to everyone, you can believe what you want to believe. I don't see a reason to create a gigantic argument about what is the true religion. We can all choose what we want to do in life as Human Beings. (btw, I'm a Muslim)

mohammedroxx3 :

You've misunderstood me entirely. I know that "In Islam, God loves those who are obedient to him and a believer." I was talking about prior to creation. Before Allah made believers, before God made Djinn and Efreet, in the beginning when there was nothing but God himself, Allah had authority over nothing because there is nothing except Allah.

Christianity, while still claiming monotheism, says that there are relationships innately in God. This is the difference between Trinitarianism and Strict Monotheism. If God is good, then it is only God-like things that are good. Being "muslim", that is submission to God, is not God-like in Islam. Allah does not submit. Allah is not muslim. Christianity can actually say that God does submit, particularly the Son submits to the will of the Father. And then we can do good, be God-like, by also submitting to the will of the Father.

All Strict Monotheism (Islam, Judaism, "Greater Power", etc) has this problem. If God does not have relations (like submission) innately, then how can we call such things good?

Txgangsta : Uh... that made no sense . What are you trying to say? What did he misunderstand? You said nothing gave Allah glory, and then he told you that in Islam, the fact that He created everything is pretty much what gave Him glory. I don't get what you're making a big deal about, haha. Calm down. You're asking about a religion which you don't know about, which is fine! It's good to be curious (I know I am!), but please don't continually respond to the answers you get with replies that make it sound as though no one answered your question, and please don't argue just for the sake of arguing. Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I really don't understand what you're talking about. You said nothing gave Allah glory. Mohammed replied pointing out for you that in Islam, His glory comes from the fact that He created everything. Could it be any simpler than that? Like he said, we can all believe what we want. There's no reason to block out everything repetitively and respond with a load of things like "Allah does not submit," and "Allah is not muslim." What does that even mean? Please try not to talk about a religion you don't even follow as if you know everything about it, or at least try to explain a bit more what exactly you mean by what you say. To me, it seems like you just brought up something entirely unrelated to what he was saying. There's no reason to do that. You said something, and he corrected you. That's really all there is to it... . 

NintendoFanKimmy :

Because I'm talking about God before creation...

And I know a lot about this religion. Do not patronize me. You do not understand what I wrote because you are not muslim. A knowledgeable muslim will understand my references.

Txgangsta : Based off of your post, you misunderstood a verse in the Quran or something related to it. (I'm mainly talking about Surat Al-Ikhlas)

Islam's monotheism here is that Allah is the one and only God alone. God is not like a Human being at all in Islam. (God is way beyond) Thus, there aren't any innate relationships (like having a son). A human being has a father and can have a son. But God is different than us.

Islam's God, Allah, is the only God with no son or father.  And who would God submit to? God himself is the one who has authority and can create everything. It's his creations that submit to God. If God submits to someone, how is he a God? How does he have authority over everything like how a God is supposed to?

Here is the definition of monotheism straight from the dictionary, "the doctrine or belief that there is only one God." 

In Islam, God is believed to be unique and one, no one is like God. As for Christianity, there is a son. A son can be just like his father in most aspects and characteristics. That is contradicting the meaning of monotheism. 

You can argue that before there was nothing but God alone, but the thing is, God has the ability to do anything. He doesn't need or depend on anyone or anything. He is ultimately independent.

As for, "then we can do good, be God-like." God's creation can't be God-like. Only God is like himself. As for doing good, that is being obedient to Allah and repenting for any sins committed. Allah also has the characteristics of being the most merciful and compassionate.

As for "Allah is not a muslim", a Muslim is someone who believes in Islam. Someone who believes in Allah. That statement simply makes no sense.  

And most of what Kimmy said is correct, but I understand how you think her post doesn't relate to your argument.

Txgangsta : Sorry if it seemed like I was patronizing you. I wasn't. I was riled up because of something else and let it out in that post, so it was bad timing, heheh. I'm sorry if I came across as offensive in any way, but to everyone, including you, remember to be accepting! There's no point in looking for answers if you're going to be in denial of every one you get xP. I'm not saying you are in particular, it's just not uncommon in debates such as this. I promise I am never condescending, Txgansta; I'm only 13, and I know I have a lot of growing up to do compared to a lot of people I talk to on this site xD. 

And whatever makes you think I'm not Muslim, by the way? I am .

Anyway, sorry again! I hope your day goes well !

This is a question that helped me stop believing, when i studied other religions they all think they are the true religion and i just start to think "What if Islam is the true religion" and so on and so forth. I tend to steer myself away from any religion when i figured out its all just made up

TristanTehGamer1 :

That doesn't sound horribly logical, tbh. I could ask "what if science is all wrong?" and then, by that train of thought, dismiss all of science.

Txgangsta : Its a gamble we all take, whatever makes more sense is what we follow even though it may be the wrong thing. A good question is, what if science and religion are both wrong?

TristanTehGamer1 :

But they're not wrong. So it's not a good question. Good questions are those that lead to truth. That only leads to skepticism.

Txgangsta : that does make more sense, i guess i really classify as an agnostic because i really dont know, science seems kinda convincing and the thought of there being some sort of god seems kinda convincing too

TristanTehGamer1 :

I agree. Now all that's left is to fit both of them together such that they're not at war.

The truth is... there are hundreds of thousands of religions. And none of them are true. They are a man made construct, and it's all in your heads. Sorry.
People throughout history have made up stories for things they don't understand.
We thought the world was flat until we proved that it was round.
We still don't know exactly how the world was created, so that's where religion comes in. It's a nice little story for everyone to believe in since we don't know the actual truth. People want answers, even if they are fake ones. And that's where religion comes in.

taterii :

When you grow up, you'll hopefully learn something called "logically necessary". We don't know all the details to how the world was created, you're right. But something's are logically necessary, so we must claim them as true. For example, the universe has to start. If it did not start, it should not be. The universe logically depends upon this start. So what can we say about that start? Did it come from anywhere? It can't, otherwise the real start would recede backwards forever. Then there isn't a real "start" and the whole sequences can't logically exist. This start must be eternal, not needing a start. Just with this, out of the two options of theism and atheism, the former is much more likely. The atheist would have to claim that the eternal super-powered starter was nothing more than a random, chaotic event. The theist can say that it's all orderly, just like science tells us.

Txgangsta : Who said that the world was created through one event? I don't know how it is. But religion is much more irrational than scientific thinking. You make it sound like the Bible makes complete sense.
There is nothing remotely scientific about the Bible, however.
A senior citizen did not build an ark.
The first person was not a dude who had a rib ripped out of him, and said rib did not create a woman.
There is nothing "logically necessary" about God or Gods. They are fiction. Man-made ideas.
There has to be a better reason for the world being created other than "An all knowing force said 'LET THERE BE EARTH" and BAM, the Earth was created. I can guarantee you that it was a bit more complex than that.
I don't know if the creation of the universe was a random chaotic event or not. I have no idea. And likely never will.
What I do know is what didn't happen.

As there is no empirical proof for any, none. Add to that the cruelties spread in at least the Abrahamic teachings

taterii : Actually, it does demand to be logical.  In fact, the Bible talks down on blind faith. The beliefs that are written in scripture are associated with reasons and the Bible continually emphasizes seeking knowledge, understanding, and wisdom (entire book of Proverbs) and to use your reasoning to discern right belief ("Let us reason..." (Isaiah 1:18), the Bereans who were deemed noble because they cross check what the followers of Jesus believe back to scripture to make sure they are true (Acts 17:11), Apostle Paul warns Christians to "Test Everything, hold on to the good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)) Believing in Christianity requires reason as well, and it is the support of reason that also leads a person to trust in God. To say that there is nothing remotely scientific about the Bible is denying the scientific truths that are written from the Bible, which some scientists don't discover till later. Many giants in scientific history are of faith as well, and they treat studying science as an expression of worship and glorifying God. This is also why there are scientists who also believe in God. 

You may not know whether the universe was a random chaotic event, but there is something that you do know: that the odds of the universe randomly becoming the universe that we know today is very very low. It is lower than seeing leaves lined up on the street, from that example, you would have inferred that it couldn't have been randomly set to that situation and that someone must have place the leaves to be oriented in that way. In the same way, you look at the universe and see how certain things fall into place, there should be something in your mind thinking that it is less likely for it to be randomly formed to place, that, no matter the method, there must be a guide or designer to put them all into place.

To say that you know what didn't happen is presumptuous. Just because something "doesn't make sense to you" doesn't mean that it is "illogical", which many things that most people don't understand or didn't understand actually turn out to be logical. Some people don't even understand correct logic, but it doesn't make logic illogical. So to immediately say they are made up without look at the claims of eyewitness accounts, historicity of the Bible, and the boldness of the claims, and actually test them and cross examine them is truly practicing "blind faith"

thelastrequim : To say that there is no empirical proof is a stretch. Also, just because you find something that you disagree doesn't mean that you actually understand it, nor does it prevent it from being true.

Hum, why would atheists join the debate? Although I mostly consider myself agnostic, I simply can not answer the question. In my view there simply is not enough proof to claim that A SINGLE religion is true. By proof, I mean something that could credibly be admitted in a court of justice.