So you're saying that you think crediting God for making everything doesn't educate? Well, if you just say, "God created this and that," then it doesn't educate much except about who made it. The problem with your arguement is that it doesn't stop at just "God created this and that." The Bible also talks about how His creations work, what they do, their purpose, etc.

Originally posted by Dragon master

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Ok, let's say that we credit anything that is currently unexplained to god.

God made the earth.

God created the universe.

God made everything and is beyond time and matter itself.

Sure, those are all answers to problems you can come up with, but they don't educate at all.

That's the problem with crediting things to god, sure you can but you don't learn anything. You could say that "god created the rivers" or "rivers are created when it rains in the mountains so the water starts flowing".

Both are answers, but one educates us and makes us learn more about the world around us.

I'm not saying it's bad to credit god for everything, but so far it seems like this god of yours came up with a good excuse to explain how things are like they are, and if you find those. Well, you learn a lot of useful knowledge about the world.


So yeah, the Bible could be scientific, and yes it holds answers. But it could be good if you saw some of them as "placeholders" they work and yes they explain, if vaguely. But if we can find the more "scientific" answers, then that will most probably benefit the human race more.


(Also, I'm a strong believer of agnosticism and science, just so people don't think I'm an atheist.)

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yeah, I think you've assumed too much DM.

I think a big point of this thread was to point out that there is actual science in the Bible. There are explanations in the Bible for things that in some cases we've only recently understood. He posted examples of this at the very beginning.

Well, why would God make the universe and then it's laws came with it. He would have had to design it.
Yes I believe Jesus is the Messiah and the devil created most other religions and theories/ideas about the world to lead people away from God.

Originally posted by Neyro

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But what I'm suggesting is that he did not make the laws, if he did make the Earth to begin with, but they were created themselves FROM the creation of the Earth, if that makes any sense. Thus, God, in a sense, is still under Earth's laws.

So, in essence, what you're saying is, that Jesus is the "one true messiah" and everyone else is a myth/lie?

Just making sure. :/

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well, some people just can't handle that some of us are convinced that Jesus is the Messiah. And apparently it's not okay for us to express that opinion.

Just so you know, my questions are not because I disagree but because I just like to keep conversations going. I also enjoy seeing if you just believe these things because you were told to or because you have a good understanding of what you believe.

I believe that you need to study what you believe and see if it makes sense. lol If it isn't logical then you shouldn't believe in it.

that doesn't mean people don't do it.... I've met plenty of people that try to explain what they believe and why the believe it and they can't. Or when they do I can quite often find some pretty big logical holes in their arguments....

You're not too bad with what you believe but some of your arguments are lacking. Some of my criticisms haven't been addressed which is fine. I don't expect you to spend too much free time trying to defend your beliefs to me.

@Noodleman: I was kinda pointing out that science has more actual science and is more updated than the bible, the bible is rather outdated as a source of science. Perfect as a source of religion though.

@Geeogree: Yeah, I kinda assumed that the examples he gave were the best in the bible because frankly, I haven't read it it's a little b****y umping into this sort of thread like that but I really wanted to stretch out my opinion, anyways. That's pretty much done and I'm pretty much said all I could possibly say about this subject.


That will probably be all for me here.

The Bible is not outdated as a source of science. It still applies to the modern world so well. And my examples were not the best ones, there are way better ones. I was just thinking off of the top of my head.

Originally posted by Dragon master

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@Noodleman: I was kinda pointing out that science has more actual science and is more updated than the bible, the bible is rather outdated as a source of science. Perfect as a source of religion though.

@Geeogree: Yeah, I kinda assumed that the examples he gave were the best in the bible because frankly, I haven't read it it's a little b****y umping into this sort of thread like that but I really wanted to stretch out my opinion, anyways. That's pretty much done and I'm pretty much said all I could possibly say about this subject.


That will probably be all for me here.

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I think we're going to need some better examples then.... because the Bible isn't the only ancient book that contained some understanding of how the world worked....

And I'm not too sure how many more you can find in the Bible. I'll be impressed if you can find ones that are better than the few you got off the top of your head.

Ok here:

Earth is suspended into space: Job 26:7

The universe is running down: Isa. 51:6

Earth is a sphere: Isa. 40:22

Ocean currents flow through the sea: Ps. 8:8

The universe is made up of invisible things: Hebrews 11:3

Stars produce sound: Job 38:7

The stars cannot be numbered: Genesis 15:5, 22:17; Jeremiah 31:37, 33:22

Stars are incredibly distant from the earth: Job 22:12

Stars differ in magnitude: 1 Corinthians: 15:41

Earth rotates on its axis: Job 38:12, 14; Luke 17:31, 34

Man's body is composed of the same materials as the earth: Genesis 2:8, 3:19; Psalms 103:14

The universe suddenly appeared out of nothing: Genesis 1:1; Psalms 33:6, 9

Earth's crust rests upon a foundation: Job 38:4, 6; Psalms 104:5

Is that good enough? lol

im just going to chuck in my 2 cents and say that things like that are open to interpretation.
i mean those passages dont say those things in plain words, so its just an interpretation that thats what they mean.
like how you can say alot of nostadamous predicitions came true just by interpretation.
well im done, back to you in the studio...

But ALL of those and hundreds more being true? That's not coincidence my friend.

The people within the cities shall be blind and mislead. JigSaw 20:09

The skies will fall and the gates will rise. JigSaw 20:12

What???

2dnoodleman: i dont think you understood my post at all.
interpretation is:
-an explanation of the meaning of another's artistic or creative work.
-an interpretation of a poem.
-a conception of another's behavior: a charitable interpretation of his tactlessness.
-a way of interpreting.
-the rendering of a dramatic part, music, etc., so as to bring out the meaning, or to indicate one's particular conception of it.

example, you say "Stars produce sound: Job 38:7"
yet Job 38:7 says "while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"

so what you're saying is an interpretation.
and different people can interperate things in different ways.
in other words just because you (or whoever) interperated those passages that way doesnt make it fact/true.

edit: even if they can be interpreted into facts/truth.
as in just because the interpretation says a truth doesnt mean thats what the passage meant when written.

yeah, the interpretation on Job 38:7 is a pretty big stretch. Now that I've seen that I really want to take time to read all the other ones and see how accurate they are.

I understood you completely but I'm saying that all of those and hundreds more were interpreted differently, but whether they were interpreted to fact or to something that isn't(or hasn't happened yet), there is still a huge number of prophecies or scientific statements that happened or happen.

yeah thats all fine but as stated, anyone could take any phrase and turn it into something that happened at some point in all likelyhood.
thats the thing about poetry/verse.
an interpretation is an interpretation, not solid facts.
"what we demand are solid facts!" (bad Hitchhikers reference )

im quite certain you could do the same type of interpretation on on shakespear, or even harry potter. (these are just examples)
anyway, the fact that someone can interprate something into something that happened or happens doesnt make it a book of prophecies or science.

"We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"

Actually, most of the prophecies in the Bible are said very clearly, the things I mentioned are just interpreted by most to be scientific truths.

Also, what are the chances of the Bible talking about that many things that sound similiar to scientific facts?

yeah, but saying the stars were singing has absolutely no connection to the current idea that stars produce sound.... the phrase "the stars were singing" is metaphorical. It has no bearing in science.