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Is there a fine line between Right and Wrong?

 

03-04-09 01:14 AM
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In all honesty, if there really a fine line between Right and Wrong?

As a Christian, it is pretty easy to tell the difference from Right and Wrong in my personal life, but, why is it so hard for non-Christians to see the same thing? I found out a while ago that a couple that I knew just did something, let's just say that they had "fun" without being married. Now, the worst part is their age. They are under 20, but...still...I just can't condone it. Call me old fashioned, but, the Bible speaks against it, having that kind of "fun" without being married. Now, I suppose the age isn't a big problem, since they are both legally adults, but, I don't know. It just really bothers me. But, if I had one question for them, it would be: "Do you think what you did is Wrong?" I'm pretty sure their answer would be: "No, because we love each other, and that's what counts."

I just wish I knew why they did it. They've only been together for a couple of months, so that is another reason I'm thrown off. But still, the question still stands: Is there a fine line between Right and Wrong?
In all honesty, if there really a fine line between Right and Wrong?

As a Christian, it is pretty easy to tell the difference from Right and Wrong in my personal life, but, why is it so hard for non-Christians to see the same thing? I found out a while ago that a couple that I knew just did something, let's just say that they had "fun" without being married. Now, the worst part is their age. They are under 20, but...still...I just can't condone it. Call me old fashioned, but, the Bible speaks against it, having that kind of "fun" without being married. Now, I suppose the age isn't a big problem, since they are both legally adults, but, I don't know. It just really bothers me. But, if I had one question for them, it would be: "Do you think what you did is Wrong?" I'm pretty sure their answer would be: "No, because we love each other, and that's what counts."

I just wish I knew why they did it. They've only been together for a couple of months, so that is another reason I'm thrown off. But still, the question still stands: Is there a fine line between Right and Wrong?
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03-04-09 01:53 AM
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The problem is that right and wrong is subjective. Different cultures have different ideas on what's right and wrong. What you might find wrong as a christian, they might find right as an atheist.

Also: "but, why is it so hard for non-Christians to see the same thing?" because well, they're non-christian for a reason. And that involves not living by the bible.
The problem is that right and wrong is subjective. Different cultures have different ideas on what's right and wrong. What you might find wrong as a christian, they might find right as an atheist.

Also: "but, why is it so hard for non-Christians to see the same thing?" because well, they're non-christian for a reason. And that involves not living by the bible.
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03-04-09 08:34 AM
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As he said, right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder. I am also Christian, and have no problem with them having "fun". While I am devout, I also feel that some things in the bible should be taken 'with a grain of sugar'. For example, someone just walked up and hit you in the face for no reason. Would you really, truly turn the other cheek? I would LOVE to be able to say, "Yes, I would" but in all honesty, I would probably just beat the crap out of them. And I have a feeling that 98% of the people in the world feel the same way, Christian or non-Christian. So if they want to do that, more power to them, you don't have to like it, but it's their problem, not yours. I don't mean to sound cruel in saying that, but people have a very.. distinctive.. view on taking liberties like that with each other, and nothing you say will really change their mind on whether it is right or wrong. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing by attempting to kill all of the Jews, yet the Jews saw that as wrong. Obviously, so did almost everyone else, but you get the point. In wars, soldiers think they are fighting for the right cause, but then so does the enemy.
As he said, right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder. I am also Christian, and have no problem with them having "fun". While I am devout, I also feel that some things in the bible should be taken 'with a grain of sugar'. For example, someone just walked up and hit you in the face for no reason. Would you really, truly turn the other cheek? I would LOVE to be able to say, "Yes, I would" but in all honesty, I would probably just beat the crap out of them. And I have a feeling that 98% of the people in the world feel the same way, Christian or non-Christian. So if they want to do that, more power to them, you don't have to like it, but it's their problem, not yours. I don't mean to sound cruel in saying that, but people have a very.. distinctive.. view on taking liberties like that with each other, and nothing you say will really change their mind on whether it is right or wrong. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing by attempting to kill all of the Jews, yet the Jews saw that as wrong. Obviously, so did almost everyone else, but you get the point. In wars, soldiers think they are fighting for the right cause, but then so does the enemy.
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03-04-09 11:07 AM
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did you know that theres a passage in some versions of the bible that either say, or can be interpreted as saying, that people should go out and kill homosexuals?
im pretty sure KILLING is wrong but it still says that.
as ender said, 'with a grain of sugar', though that should be "grain of salt".
did you know that theres a passage in some versions of the bible that either say, or can be interpreted as saying, that people should go out and kill homosexuals?
im pretty sure KILLING is wrong but it still says that.
as ender said, 'with a grain of sugar', though that should be "grain of salt".
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03-04-09 11:13 AM
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I have always found that sugar sweetens things much more than salt does.. salt also stings in wounds. So therefor, I modified the saying to be sugar because sugar is overall a superior substance.
I have always found that sugar sweetens things much more than salt does.. salt also stings in wounds. So therefor, I modified the saying to be sugar because sugar is overall a superior substance.
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03-04-09 12:53 PM
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I do understand that various cultures have various distinctions between right and wrong, I really do. And although I've never myself seen the version of the Bible that says to kill homosexuals, I know it exists, and I have to disagree with it. "You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13 (NIV) Now, I highly doubt that God would contradict Himself by saying kill homosexuals. That's murder. Now, people may say, "What about all of those wars that God led Israel into?" That wasn't murder, that was war that was already being commenced by the other armies.

As for the situation that I brought up, I don't plan on saying anything, because what's done is done. However, I can't be happy about the situation. It's like my grandmother said: "Love the sinner, hate the sin." I love my friends as a Christian, but I really hate the sin that they have committed. I don't know, maybe I've just hit an impasse with myself, but, it's just hard for me to understand why.
I do understand that various cultures have various distinctions between right and wrong, I really do. And although I've never myself seen the version of the Bible that says to kill homosexuals, I know it exists, and I have to disagree with it. "You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13 (NIV) Now, I highly doubt that God would contradict Himself by saying kill homosexuals. That's murder. Now, people may say, "What about all of those wars that God led Israel into?" That wasn't murder, that was war that was already being commenced by the other armies.

As for the situation that I brought up, I don't plan on saying anything, because what's done is done. However, I can't be happy about the situation. It's like my grandmother said: "Love the sinner, hate the sin." I love my friends as a Christian, but I really hate the sin that they have committed. I don't know, maybe I've just hit an impasse with myself, but, it's just hard for me to understand why.
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03-04-09 01:21 PM
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Well then, this quite simple:

Sucks to be you. No, I'm serious, if you want to get hung up on the little fact that a loving couple had sex then you can. But I believe that life is more worth living if you don't go around being full of hate and such.

Also, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with abstaining. If that's what you want to go for then that's perfect for you. But getting full of hate or similar because of someone else's actions is just a waste of emotions.
Well then, this quite simple:

Sucks to be you. No, I'm serious, if you want to get hung up on the little fact that a loving couple had sex then you can. But I believe that life is more worth living if you don't go around being full of hate and such.

Also, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with abstaining. If that's what you want to go for then that's perfect for you. But getting full of hate or similar because of someone else's actions is just a waste of emotions.
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03-04-09 02:00 PM
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Furthermore if they are being judged for this, that is their decision - not yours. Just because as a Christian you believe what they are doing is wrong, doesnt mean it is. Im not a Christian, im engaged to marry but i have a sexual relationship with my Fiance. (not that im to pleased to discus my sex life on the internet :| )

But this is just the opinion of myself. If God forgives all sin's, then he will get over it.
Furthermore if they are being judged for this, that is their decision - not yours. Just because as a Christian you believe what they are doing is wrong, doesnt mean it is. Im not a Christian, im engaged to marry but i have a sexual relationship with my Fiance. (not that im to pleased to discus my sex life on the internet :| )

But this is just the opinion of myself. If God forgives all sin's, then he will get over it.
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03-04-09 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Dragon master
Well then, this quite simple:

Sucks to be you. No, I'm serious, if you want to get hung up on the little fact that a loving couple had sex then you can. But I believe that life is more worth living if you don't go around being full of hate and such.

Also, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with abstaining. If that's what you want to go for then that's perfect for you. But getting full of hate or similar because of someone else's actions is just a waste of emotions.


Well, that's definitely a way to put it, DM. I don't know, even if I explained the rest of the situation, as to why it somewhat affects me, I don't think it'll change anyone's opinion.

Ah well, I'll explain it anyway. The girl in the relationship is my ex-girlfriend. The details of our previous relationship aren't important, however. One of my best friends then asked her out three weeks later, I believe it was late December. Now, three and a half months later, they engage in sexual intercourse. Not engaged, not married, just boyfriend & girlfriend. That's why it's kinda hard on me. I know I should have let go, but, when I found out that they did that, I just didn't know what to do.
Originally posted by Dragon master
Well then, this quite simple:

Sucks to be you. No, I'm serious, if you want to get hung up on the little fact that a loving couple had sex then you can. But I believe that life is more worth living if you don't go around being full of hate and such.

Also, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with abstaining. If that's what you want to go for then that's perfect for you. But getting full of hate or similar because of someone else's actions is just a waste of emotions.


Well, that's definitely a way to put it, DM. I don't know, even if I explained the rest of the situation, as to why it somewhat affects me, I don't think it'll change anyone's opinion.

Ah well, I'll explain it anyway. The girl in the relationship is my ex-girlfriend. The details of our previous relationship aren't important, however. One of my best friends then asked her out three weeks later, I believe it was late December. Now, three and a half months later, they engage in sexual intercourse. Not engaged, not married, just boyfriend & girlfriend. That's why it's kinda hard on me. I know I should have let go, but, when I found out that they did that, I just didn't know what to do.
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03-04-09 02:24 PM
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Oh geez, it was your ex oh that has noooooooothing to do with it.

You're just jealous and possessive, it's a normal reaction. This has absolutely nothing to do with relation at all. Also f*** your friend, he shouldn't ask her out after just 3 weeks.


Oh geez, it was your ex oh that has noooooooothing to do with it.

You're just jealous and possessive, it's a normal reaction. This has absolutely nothing to do with relation at all. Also f*** your friend, he shouldn't ask her out after just 3 weeks.
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03-04-09 02:40 PM
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That's how I felt about his asking after 3 weeks, but, I've tried to get over it. I'm just giving up. I don't feel like getting into a major argument with them. To tell you the truth, I haven't spoken to them ever since they started dating. I just kinda kept my distance. Although I have to disagree with you saying that I'm jealous and possessive. I was actually the one to break up with her. It's very difficult to explain why, but, well, I did let her go. However, finding out about this just shocked me, but I kept my cool when I found out. Now, though, I just don't quite know how to take it. I want to get it out of my mind, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.
That's how I felt about his asking after 3 weeks, but, I've tried to get over it. I'm just giving up. I don't feel like getting into a major argument with them. To tell you the truth, I haven't spoken to them ever since they started dating. I just kinda kept my distance. Although I have to disagree with you saying that I'm jealous and possessive. I was actually the one to break up with her. It's very difficult to explain why, but, well, I did let her go. However, finding out about this just shocked me, but I kept my cool when I found out. Now, though, I just don't quite know how to take it. I want to get it out of my mind, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.
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03-04-09 02:42 PM
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You do know that your reaction is pretty much the very definition of jealous right?

Anyways, one way to get over it is to put yourself on a mental throne and deem yourself much better than those lousy peasants! Usually works for me.
You do know that your reaction is pretty much the very definition of jealous right?

Anyways, one way to get over it is to put yourself on a mental throne and deem yourself much better than those lousy peasants! Usually works for me.
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03-04-09 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dragon master
You do know that your reaction is pretty much the very definition of jealous right?

Anyways, one way to get over it is to put yourself on a mental throne and deem yourself much better than those lousy peasants! Usually works for me.


Well then, I shall do just that DM, I shall do just that.
Originally posted by Dragon master
You do know that your reaction is pretty much the very definition of jealous right?

Anyways, one way to get over it is to put yourself on a mental throne and deem yourself much better than those lousy peasants! Usually works for me.


Well then, I shall do just that DM, I shall do just that.
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03-04-09 03:24 PM
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Yeah, it sucks to find out your ex is having sex with someone. But she's your ex for a reason, right? You weren't going to marry her, so I'm guessing you weren't going to have sex with her (though I wouldn't judge you harshly if you did at some point in your life wind up having sex with someone before getting married, despite its being somewhat hypocritical, people are just hypocrites by nature, some worse than others). So just... focus on moving on. While I don't doubt you're devout, I have to say you're bothered by this more because it's your ex than because of your Christian values.

As for the initial topic, as far as I can remember it, they did it because it feels good. And it's a natural human act. People did it long before Christianity had come along, or any sort of religion. While these religions formed prescribing rules regarding the act itself, and it has changed the view of it for many people, it can never fully overrule human nature. Some people are able to wait like their religion tells them to, others aren't. No one is more right or wrong than the other, to each their own, right?

I mean, do you believe a person who isn't Christian is going to hell by default? Even if they're otherwise the most loving, caring, nice, honest, any other positive adjective you can think of person you've ever met?
Yeah, it sucks to find out your ex is having sex with someone. But she's your ex for a reason, right? You weren't going to marry her, so I'm guessing you weren't going to have sex with her (though I wouldn't judge you harshly if you did at some point in your life wind up having sex with someone before getting married, despite its being somewhat hypocritical, people are just hypocrites by nature, some worse than others). So just... focus on moving on. While I don't doubt you're devout, I have to say you're bothered by this more because it's your ex than because of your Christian values.

As for the initial topic, as far as I can remember it, they did it because it feels good. And it's a natural human act. People did it long before Christianity had come along, or any sort of religion. While these religions formed prescribing rules regarding the act itself, and it has changed the view of it for many people, it can never fully overrule human nature. Some people are able to wait like their religion tells them to, others aren't. No one is more right or wrong than the other, to each their own, right?

I mean, do you believe a person who isn't Christian is going to hell by default? Even if they're otherwise the most loving, caring, nice, honest, any other positive adjective you can think of person you've ever met?
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03-05-09 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by rocksome
Yeah, it sucks to find out your ex is having sex with someone. But she's your ex for a reason, right? You weren't going to marry her, so I'm guessing you weren't going to have sex with her (though I wouldn't judge you harshly if you did at some point in your life wind up having sex with someone before getting married, despite its being somewhat hypocritical, people are just hypocrites by nature, some worse than others). So just... focus on moving on. While I don't doubt you're devout, I have to say you're bothered by this more because it's your ex than because of your Christian values.

As for the initial topic, as far as I can remember it, they did it because it feels good. And it's a natural human act. People did it long before Christianity had come along, or any sort of religion. While these religions formed prescribing rules regarding the act itself, and it has changed the view of it for many people, it can never fully overrule human nature. Some people are able to wait like their religion tells them to, others aren't. No one is more right or wrong than the other, to each their own, right?

I mean, do you believe a person who isn't Christian is going to hell by default? Even if they're otherwise the most loving, caring, nice, honest, any other positive adjective you can think of person you've ever met?



I'd really rather not say, since I know it'll offend someone. Now, as for your reasoning about why I'm upset, I'd have to agree, although I don't want to. It's really the only thing that makes sense, now that I think about it.
Originally posted by rocksome
Yeah, it sucks to find out your ex is having sex with someone. But she's your ex for a reason, right? You weren't going to marry her, so I'm guessing you weren't going to have sex with her (though I wouldn't judge you harshly if you did at some point in your life wind up having sex with someone before getting married, despite its being somewhat hypocritical, people are just hypocrites by nature, some worse than others). So just... focus on moving on. While I don't doubt you're devout, I have to say you're bothered by this more because it's your ex than because of your Christian values.

As for the initial topic, as far as I can remember it, they did it because it feels good. And it's a natural human act. People did it long before Christianity had come along, or any sort of religion. While these religions formed prescribing rules regarding the act itself, and it has changed the view of it for many people, it can never fully overrule human nature. Some people are able to wait like their religion tells them to, others aren't. No one is more right or wrong than the other, to each their own, right?

I mean, do you believe a person who isn't Christian is going to hell by default? Even if they're otherwise the most loving, caring, nice, honest, any other positive adjective you can think of person you've ever met?



I'd really rather not say, since I know it'll offend someone. Now, as for your reasoning about why I'm upset, I'd have to agree, although I don't want to. It's really the only thing that makes sense, now that I think about it.
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03-14-09 05:42 PM
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The difference between right and wrong is definitily subjective as mentioned above. It depends on whose "rules" you are following. I don't see how playing around before getting married is wrong I would rather think being married and cheating would be more wrong then having fun with someone. I mean you don't need a law or ring to show that you love someone. Although love is often deceiving and people mistake it for lust. People say they love you and backstab you... yea now I can see the logic in it all.

But it seems to be logical from my standpoint. It is not right to drive a car before you get a license... so the same logic is applying to that rule in christianity and that is why it should make sense. Now there is a FINE line between wrongs. Some wrongs are small while others are beyond forgivable such as killing people randomly for no reason at all.

We all make mistakes and to me personally I believe it is more of a sin to breech a legal binding marriage contract then have fun before getting married. But... I'm leaning the other way because people really have too much fun these days and they do not know what love really is they are just lusting left and right... So basically people are just sinning left and right... although there might be a few exceptions.

I am somewhat "christian" but not a strict christian meaning I don't say my prayers or read the bible or go to church. I was baptized when I was little so I think that pretty much labels me as christian. But I'm more of the person who is on the sidelines and has no religion. I accept others religions but do not deny them altogether. You can learn a lot from the sidelines. Now will I go to hell? Who knows but I do know good from evil and right from wrong and as long as you know right from wrong you will do fine.
The difference between right and wrong is definitily subjective as mentioned above. It depends on whose "rules" you are following. I don't see how playing around before getting married is wrong I would rather think being married and cheating would be more wrong then having fun with someone. I mean you don't need a law or ring to show that you love someone. Although love is often deceiving and people mistake it for lust. People say they love you and backstab you... yea now I can see the logic in it all.

But it seems to be logical from my standpoint. It is not right to drive a car before you get a license... so the same logic is applying to that rule in christianity and that is why it should make sense. Now there is a FINE line between wrongs. Some wrongs are small while others are beyond forgivable such as killing people randomly for no reason at all.

We all make mistakes and to me personally I believe it is more of a sin to breech a legal binding marriage contract then have fun before getting married. But... I'm leaning the other way because people really have too much fun these days and they do not know what love really is they are just lusting left and right... So basically people are just sinning left and right... although there might be a few exceptions.

I am somewhat "christian" but not a strict christian meaning I don't say my prayers or read the bible or go to church. I was baptized when I was little so I think that pretty much labels me as christian. But I'm more of the person who is on the sidelines and has no religion. I accept others religions but do not deny them altogether. You can learn a lot from the sidelines. Now will I go to hell? Who knows but I do know good from evil and right from wrong and as long as you know right from wrong you will do fine.
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03-18-09 02:42 PM
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oh yeah, it's very subjective. like some crazy people think murder is acceptable because someone wronged them at some point in their life
oh yeah, it's very subjective. like some crazy people think murder is acceptable because someone wronged them at some point in their life
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I think the key term in that sentence is "crazy person" ziggy. But yes, as others have said it all comes down to cultural and religious background when determining taboos such as this. Many Christian Americans are a bit harsher on that particular activity because of their Puritan roots, so it really isn't that surprising.

Honestly, all religious stuff aside, I think that it was messed up that your friend went after your ex that fast. It does not matter that you broke up with her or why, a true friend doesn't go after your ex three weeks later. At least they don't without making sure you are okay with it. You felt an emotional attachment to her, I don't know for how long, but you did; and it is weird to see your friend with her, and even more so knowing that they are that intimate with each other. I think that what you are feeling is betrayed more than anything else, and frankly I do not blame you because I have been there myself.
I think the key term in that sentence is "crazy person" ziggy. But yes, as others have said it all comes down to cultural and religious background when determining taboos such as this. Many Christian Americans are a bit harsher on that particular activity because of their Puritan roots, so it really isn't that surprising.

Honestly, all religious stuff aside, I think that it was messed up that your friend went after your ex that fast. It does not matter that you broke up with her or why, a true friend doesn't go after your ex three weeks later. At least they don't without making sure you are okay with it. You felt an emotional attachment to her, I don't know for how long, but you did; and it is weird to see your friend with her, and even more so knowing that they are that intimate with each other. I think that what you are feeling is betrayed more than anything else, and frankly I do not blame you because I have been there myself.
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Yes of course there's a fine line.
In fact, I'm looking at it right now.
To the left of me is God playing Poker with Satan and Chuck Norris as Britney Spears turns out to be an alien that has come to destroy our universe with her corrosive music as Einstein breaks out of the Afterlife.
Yeah.

No, there is no line. There may be one for YOU and YOU only, but that's it. Others will think differently. There is no ONE SINGLE LINE for everyone.
It does not exist.

Right and Wrong is very subjective. It's all up to you the person to decide whats right and whats wrong.
Some are very religious and think pre-marital sex is an absolute no-no.
Others murder others because they got punched and see it as totally fine.
And it doesn't even have to be insane/crazy people.
Why must one lose sanity to have different views?
Just because they see that murder is right, does not mean they are insane.
It means they are DIFFERENT, like you and I.
There is no "Normality".
There never will be.

Oh the subject of your case exactly, I'm not too good with relationships, but your "friend" does not seem like a "friend".
My advice: Give him sperm-fortifying drinks/food. Babies! XD
Also, put holes in his condoms.

That's what I would do if I was that vengeful.
If I had the stones to do so.
Yes of course there's a fine line.
In fact, I'm looking at it right now.
To the left of me is God playing Poker with Satan and Chuck Norris as Britney Spears turns out to be an alien that has come to destroy our universe with her corrosive music as Einstein breaks out of the Afterlife.
Yeah.

No, there is no line. There may be one for YOU and YOU only, but that's it. Others will think differently. There is no ONE SINGLE LINE for everyone.
It does not exist.

Right and Wrong is very subjective. It's all up to you the person to decide whats right and whats wrong.
Some are very religious and think pre-marital sex is an absolute no-no.
Others murder others because they got punched and see it as totally fine.
And it doesn't even have to be insane/crazy people.
Why must one lose sanity to have different views?
Just because they see that murder is right, does not mean they are insane.
It means they are DIFFERENT, like you and I.
There is no "Normality".
There never will be.

Oh the subject of your case exactly, I'm not too good with relationships, but your "friend" does not seem like a "friend".
My advice: Give him sperm-fortifying drinks/food. Babies! XD
Also, put holes in his condoms.

That's what I would do if I was that vengeful.
If I had the stones to do so.
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This is always a tough question...

On one hand, declaring that there are moral absolutes is a tough stance to defend from a real-world perspective, because people will always bring up situations that are tough to call.

On the other hand, the idea that there are no absolutes is logically indefensible, because that is in itself an absolute statement.

The only marginally self-consistent philosophy I've been able to stick with is that are absolute truths. Right and wrong do exist independent of our personal ideals. It's just that no one on this Earth knows what they are. No one's ideals are 100% aligned with the Truth. Of course, then I have to accept that this very idea may not be truth, which puts us right back to square one.

(There is, however, a fine fine line between love and a waste of my time.)
This is always a tough question...

On one hand, declaring that there are moral absolutes is a tough stance to defend from a real-world perspective, because people will always bring up situations that are tough to call.

On the other hand, the idea that there are no absolutes is logically indefensible, because that is in itself an absolute statement.

The only marginally self-consistent philosophy I've been able to stick with is that are absolute truths. Right and wrong do exist independent of our personal ideals. It's just that no one on this Earth knows what they are. No one's ideals are 100% aligned with the Truth. Of course, then I have to accept that this very idea may not be truth, which puts us right back to square one.

(There is, however, a fine fine line between love and a waste of my time.)
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