Also, there is good American Rap. Some rappers do good songs. Did you know X-Zibit is a Christian now?

I think it depends on what rappers your talking about.
Some talk about surviving in the hood, and stuff. Not all that evil stuff you were talking about before.

i conclude all my statements with it isnt the world - its america. 3 aussies david.. 3 aussies all who believe that music isnt the major influence... But uhh nither did Vash... So its a deper psycological thing - past experience... hearing one rapper sing about those things you mentioned and assuming they all do doesnt make it true.... Slayer are as im told out right satanists... they sing Thrash Metal as its described. Pantera also are thrash metal and there not satanists... Oh yeah and i listen to some slayer and pantera... im not a satanist...

And also david brad is a christian and same with vash (i believe) and they dont believe its a direct influence of media... Its psycological... An upbringing... honestly by the time your atleast 15 your raising yourself... Its everything before being a teenager that will influence your future... Or as an add on aus tv said "The first 5 years of your childs life will determind the rest of it" (not a direct quote may be partially inaccurate but thats the 'jist' of it)

David, perhaps some research into how games actually effect people. A 5 year old may go down to his local school and shoot everyone... but his 5 years old... "monkey see monkey do" sorta stuff... I do not ever believe that a normal and even partially matuared adult could be largely influencd by video games... otherwise i would strpped to fluro lights to a stick and pretended it was an energy sword...

theres an interesting point there... that our generation started out on 8 bit graphics... games didnt appear as real as they do today... i know if i had a kid... i wouldn't buy him any 1st person shooters that were too real or games like GTA... damn xbox... lol i'll give him a nes while his friends talk about Xbox 2000 or something

That would be such a good idea.. "You can play anything you want - even the most violent game you want! Providing its on this brand new 20 year old NES!"

Ok so ya kid would hate you.. But in the long run... you would be doing him a favour when all his mates become homicidal and he becomes succesful...

IW, i did say music is an influence.

I said music is probably the most influential, especially when you don't have much human interaction.

Ahh right... But you said it was when they were alone... Odd... Im alone right now... listenig to deathmetal, thrash and lots of other metal... I dont belive that to be true... I suppose in terms of influence at all music has proably the largest impact but i dont think that being alone or in a disco sorta setting would matter.. You percive the music in your way... Doesnt matter whos there...

Physchology would prove you wrong in so many ways IceWave.

How so? Im just saying that if media is an influence that it depends on how that person percieves it - hence it has something to do with past event, physchology and that sorta stuff....

didn't bb85 mean someone who didnt like... goto a school or a job... only really left the house 4 food... probably with minimal social interaction... u goto school IW

I dont know he didnt specify all there day to day activities... But when im listening to music - most of the time i am alone...

Neo hit the nail on the head. When there alone, and listen to music, and have no human interaction. Thats when they get influenced by music.

wow this is pretty tragic. good thing this doesnt happen in hawaii

Or in Australian universitys. Wait. It did happen, about 9 years ago I think.

With all that talk about music being a big influence i have to say one thing.
Whilst music may make you go down a very bad road it cannot make you shift from a good road to a bad road. Let me elaborate: I have never gotten drunk in my live. yet still the song beer! by pshycostick (google it) is one of the best songs i have ever heard. But that doesn't make me run around driving drunk, puking and screaming BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!
Because i haven't walked that road.

Edit: Hell one of my favourite series of all time consist mostly of lots of blood, baseball bats , girls getting brutally murdered. suicide, axes, blood, and knifes. Yet i still don't run around killing people of random becuase you guessed it i haven't started walking that road yet.

P.S: The series in question is called "higurashi no naku koro ni" i have a little clip of it in my profile for those who wants to be..... "Messed up in thier heads" heheheheh.

This conversation comes down to one question. Is the person naturally more aggressive so they listen to rap music etc, or is it the rap music etc that make them more violent.

This question at this point in time is unanswerable. It's probably a little of both. Studies on video games show a slight increase in aggression, but for "normal" people it shouldn't make a difference, plus these studies were done in a laboratory, so they aren't quite real. If the people in them had not played violent games, then if you think about the question I list below it could affect those results.

The next question that needs to be studied is this: Does violent media desensitize you to violence?

I think this is where you will get into why 8 year olds don't need to be listening to rap while playing GTA and swearing at people online in Halo. But right now few studies have been done.

"The next question that needs to be studied is this: Does violent media desensitize you to violence?"

Yeah most likely, i dunno, recently bigbob85 and i saw a motorcyclist get hit by a car and he pretty much died there i think. And my reaction wasn't 1 that would argue that question. Astonished was what i was, but after 5 minutes at the scene... i think, its hard to keep track of time @ that kinda thing... i was fairly normal... i don't know if i was desensitized or just a guy thing to which u cant really let it effect u....

But even with that question it's a lot tougher to answer than you would think. They can't run an experiment, it would be unethical. They would need to look at the scores at over a couple of years. But how do we really know what is effecting the subjects, at least how do we know what is affecting them the most. For example is it TV shows and movies, music, or is it video games. If the kids live in a tough area, how much does that affect them. What if one of their parents abuses the other, that could have a huge influence. What if it's a rough school. It's so hard to answer this qestion with any certainty because we can't do a true experiment.

I find it ridiculous that they blame games for these occurrances... If you're stupid enough to follow what a game says, then you deserve to be jailed..

That's not what this particular argument is about. That argument would probably be aimed more at why 8 yr olds shouldn't play GTA. The argument we are talking about already could be used about 8 yr olds as well, but the argument you are talking about would mainly be used toward younger kids.