tRIUNE : And your "correct theology" is in accordance of which denomination of Christianity? It varies from one to the next, so who says that your version is the right one?

Elara : No denomination; there isn't a 'correct' denomination. I'm just saying if you are a Christian then those 2 scriptures apply to you regardless of denomination or personal belief.

tRIUNE : Fair enough. However, I don't see how he violates either of those based on his statements.

Elara : Exactly - I'm just saying if he's in question of being a Christian because of his beliefs, if he will diligently study the Bible with asking God to teach him the application of it, then that's how he will come to the correct conclusions of Christianity.

Elara :
thenumberone :
We can ignore the liberalism from the political and social issues that warmaker listed (Bang Bang, evolution, abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, social liberalism) and leave those for a different thread, but the reason I asked him a bunch of belief questions in the first few responses because of the "liberal theology" that was expressed in the beginning post. This is what he wrote:

"the Bible is stories and not necessarily history.

I believe pretty much everything Christianity doesn't support but I'm a nice person and I believe in God."

These statements already gave me a hunch that he does not even believe in Christianity at all, and do not understand what does it mean to be Christian or what the main message of the gospel itself. I even asked further about certain beliefs that he has, and he believes in the opposite direction of what Christianity believes.

Compare his first post to what trouble982 said, you can tell the significant difference between what "gospel" warmaker believes in compared to what trouble982 believes in. thenumberone, you even said so yourself "so long as he isnt tearing up the main ideas of christianity he is still christian". Well, he is basically tearing up the main ideas of Christianity from his statements. And if you don't have a correct understanding of the gospel, you wouldn't know how to get saved, or to be right with God, etc. He also doesn't have a foundation on his beliefs because he said "the Bible is stories and not necessary history." If you don't believe it to be history, how would you be believing in Jesus or God if think what is written about the life of Jesus and His crucification and resurrection as stories?

And I agree with what tRIUNE posted from gotquestion.com. Liberal theology is not Christian at all.

From my experience though, people who have strong liberal stance on issues like abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, etc, who claim to be Christians are not Christians at all when you ask about the core beliefs of Christianity. I can say this, that there may be Christians who are thinking about certain issues that may lean towards a liberal stance, but not to go against the Bible. Example: there are some people at my college who are for gay marriage, not because they think that being homosexual isn't a sin, but because they don't think the government has a right to limit it. And so there may be Christians who stand liberal on certain issues, but I don't think there is a strong liberal person (at least from my experience) who are Christians and are orthodox in their theology. You ask about what they believe happens when someone dies or what the main message of Christianity, and their response can be revealing to whether they are Christian or not.

In answering the question, No, there is no such thing as a Liberal Christian

play4fun : there is such a thing as a liberal christian,he stands before you under the alias of warmaker
There are storys in the bible where people are killed for the tiniest things,all the christians i pointed this out to said they were storys,not real ocurances but analogys and metaphors to guide you,so others agree they are just storys. As for believing in everything christians dont i believe that was hyperbole. He was really refering to what he mentioned,gay marriage, abortion,the big bang etc.while the bible is against homosexuals,as i pointed out it is against fat people and even people with spare money,so he stands as good a chance as any other christian.

thenumberone : "There are storys in the bible where people are killed for the tiniest things,all the christians i pointed this out to said they were storys,not real ocurances but analogys and metaphors to guide you,so others agree they are just storys"

My specific example is about salvation. About Jesus and the crucifixion. Also, he is saying the Bible as a whole. Obviously there are some parts of the Bible that are parables and stories, but many of them are written as historic record and certain parts need them to be historical in order to believe them. That is why I used the example of Jesus. If you believe that Jesus is just a story character, you are saying that you are putting your trust to a story character if you say that you are Christian.

We already said that from what he told us about his beliefs in Christianity (just focus on his theological statements) shows that he doesn't believe in Christianity at all. Even if you throw the denomination/sect argument (which should not matter either since denominations differ on secondary issues, NOT primary issues), what he states about his beliefs is nowhere close to what Christianity believes in. I said there is no such thing as a Liberal Christian and it still stands because warmaker does not even believe in Christianity in the first place.

"while the bible is against homosexuals,as i pointed out it is against fat people and even people with spare money,so he stands as good a chance as any other christian"

Those verses that you listed were not saying that it is a sin to be fat or to spare money. Read it carefully. They are against greed and gluttony. You don't want to take verses out of context. In context, the rich man verse is referring to the guy who Jesus told to sell what possessions he had and follow him. He walked away sad, because he is not willing to give up his possessions. He LOVES his money more than God. Jesus is talking against greed of money (rich men who store money because of their love of money. The verse about the poor woman giving everything she had is a greater gift than those rich people, because she GAVE EVERYTHING she had. It shows that money is not as important to her.

The thing about reading the Bible is that you don't want to take things out of context. You take it out of context, and, just like any literature that you read, you will interpret the verse wrong or you would misunderstand what the message or the story is talking about.

play4fun : i think he mean the appearances of jesus etc,im fairely certain he believes in jesus but we can find out.
warmaker : do you belive in jesus.

Well you see i think you have changed the context, if you are told you should kill yourself for being a glutan thats clear.glutony is mainly used to describe people who eat too much,sure it could count for other forms of greed,but if you buy a pc instead of giving the money to starving africans thats glutony,you have more than you need.in many ways jesus's ideas are communist in style.

thenumberone : Did you read my conversation with him for the first few posts? He thinks that everyone goes to heaven if they deserve it. When I was asking about whether a good person goes to heaven, he talks about the person needs to deserve to go to heaven. He claims that he is a Christian and his defense was "I'm a nice person and I believe in God." That does not define a person to be a Christian.

ok, I don't know how what you said was different with what I said. I was saying the Bible spoke against gluttony and greed, not keeping change and being fat.

play4fun : yes but he didnt specify what made some one deserving of heaven, so it may be more than you assume.
The point in my last post is having more than you need is gluttony.ergo all of us here are glutens in one way or another,so by the bible we are in constant sin,if you can still ascend so can warmaker.

thenumberone : "yes but he didnt specify what made some one deserving of heaven, so it may be more than you assume."

No The fact the he said someone even deserves heaven is already false in Christian doctrine, because the Bible states that NO ONE is deserving for heaven.

See I was saying earlier that it is not a sin to be fat or to keep change. It really comes down to your motive, meaning if you know that you could give to the poor, but didn't because you don't want to give instead of not being able to give, then yeah you commit greed.

play4fun : you make yourself deserving through your actions,by stayin true to your beliefs.
And cant you give?you have a computer so youre not poor,you have food in the fridge you dont need right now.few of us cant give,we all have scraps to give,keeping any of what you do not need is glutony.

thenumberone : "you make yourself deserving through your actions,by stayin true to your beliefs"

See? you are thinking the same thing I was thinking when I saw what he wrote. That is why I said he is not a Christian, because that is not what Christians believe.

And no, that is not how gluttony is defined.

Definition of GLUTTONY

1
: excess in eating or drinking
2
: greedy or excessive indulgence (Merriam-Webster)

So it is where your heart's desire is. If you desire something to the point that you have too much and want more, that is gluttony. It does not mean that if you have more than one thing, you are being gluttonous.

I guess I wonder this: If I confess, beg forgiveness, and accept Jesus, but I am okay with things like gay marriage, abortion, and other things that most Christian Conservatives are against, does that affect me?

Should I be concerned with other people and their beliefs? Does letting two gay guys get married affect me and my personal relationship with Jesus? Does that matter?

play4fun : yes,seeking in excess is glutenous.we all do it,when we work we seek the most money from our favoured profession but we dont give that excess away,we want it,thats glutony.
How does the bible say no one deserves?i dont think your quote was in the correct context.it said that wasnt enough,not that it wasnt a factor.
warmaker : you are ment to live by the bible not enforce it.all people it says are equal in gods eyes,only he may take the life of his creations.what you think about others is irelevant,he is the only one who may judge.you only need live your life,dont live other peoples for them.treat others as you would treat yourself.would you want to be pestered,bulied and ridiculed like many gays at the hands of conservatives?your actions define you,bear that in mind,youl be fine im sure.

thenumberone : I can't really say that is everyone. There are plenty of people who work at a profession not because of abundance of money, but because they love their job. You make is sound like if you have one extra thing, whether if it is a penny or a million dollars, you are committing gluttony, which I still think it is be definition the desire that motives the gluttony, not the amount of stuff that one has. But either way, if you define it that way, it makes what I said even more real. No one deserves heaven, because no one meets God's perfect standard. Everyone deserves hell because of our sins.

It is written that everyone has a sinful nature and by that sinful nature, no one is good and perfect, and no one is innocent before God.

"They have all fallen away; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good,not even one" (Psalm 53:3)
"The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5)
"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!" (Matthew 7:11)
"We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away" (Isaiah 64:6)
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23)
ETC.

The Bible makes it clear that our sins are the factors that makes us deserving of hell, but it also says that it is God's saving grace and His grace alone is what causes those to be with Him in heaven, not by our works.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," (Ephesians 2:8)
"he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," (Titus 3:5)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," (1 Peter 1:3)
ETC

The word "grace" itself means "a favor, a privilege, a pardon, that is unmerited" So a person can go to heaven, not because they deserve it through their good works or their loyalty to a religion, but by receiving God's gift of salvation that He offered on the cross, trusting Christ's gift of salvation like your life depends on it, and eternal life is given to you. God, who is rich in mercy, pardons what you deserves, hell.

Even the famous hymn "amazing grace" show this concept. "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that SAVED A WRETCH LIKE ME" We are all bad wretches, and yet God still sacrifices His life for us who don't deserve it. And the response in receiving that unmerited gift is through repentance and faith (Mark 1:15) Good works is never a factor for salvation and conversion, but a result from salvation and conversion.

Again, compare to what warmaker wrote in the beginning, with statements like:
"I basically support everything that Christianity is against"
"but I'm a nice person and I believe in God"
Answering yes to the question, "Are you a good person?"
"Anyone can go to heaven who deserves it, it's not to us to determine who is good"

These statements are against what Christianity teaches, that Man is born in sin and are sinful, no one is good, that what we deserve is hell because God is just and hates sin, that God is merciful and offer His life on the cross, and through repent and believe, one becomes a child of God and can be with God in heaven, not through any good or virtuous deeds that you have done.

warmaker : Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. Now whether the government allow or reject the right for same sex marriage is up to them. But as a Christian, I cannot support such a lifestyle of sin. That being said, I don't have anything against those who are gay, and I don't discriminate people who are declared gay, and Christians shouldn't (Westboro breaks that). You throw any other sin or crime in the mix (let's say thievery), and the government makes a law to allow rights to thieves to steal anything as a lifestyle (I know this sounds ridiculous), and if you are someone who is against thievery and thinks it is wrong, it would be natural for you to go against it. Same concept with same sex marriage rights, because Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin.

And this is where you come in. If you are a Christian, you are made a new creation, with a new heart with new desires, that the things and sins that you once love, you would now hate, and the things of God that you once hated and find uninteresting, you would desire. You would see a defining change in your life from the wretch that you once were, to a continual growth of holiness, because the Holy Spirit would dwell in you and would work in you that you are growing more and more Christ-like, and others, both Christians and non-Christians can see that change in your life, and it would be evident.

play4fun : yes but if you are offered two jobs that are the same then you take the best paid one, my point is everyone sins by the bibles rules and that tolerating gay marriage and abortion etc is small chips.

warmaker : I guess the big question is, do you believe the Jesus died for your sins?

I think the really big question is can anyone be a Liberal Christian? By reading what play4fun said, we sin weather we follow the bible to the word or take no notice of it at all. We sin weather we believe Jesus died for our sins or believe that the universe began with a big bang. We sin no matter what we do, nor how hard we try, not that it makes a difference becuase God forgives us.
That being said, I think you can be a liberal Christian, as in knowing the ABCs (which I learnt from here) but still study in the art of science. Is there a flaw in my logic?

Darkpower508 : As long as you don't predominate science over the Bible; if you can believe the first verse of the Bible, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," then you can believe the rest of the Bible. You can know the "ABCs" but they don't mean anything if you don't live them. If, by liberal Christian theology, you don't agree sin to be what the Bible says is sin, then how can you confess your sins?