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Originally posted by Morsalbus

That's not even close to being true. There's no scientific evidence directly conflicting with the idea of a 'supreme being', there's only some evidence that seems to clash with the Bible, or other holy texts. One could easily believe in a God or gods without disregarding science.

And on another note: Atheism doesn't denote a belief in science. Atheism is only the belief that there is no god. A person could completely disregard all scientific fact and still be an atheist.

Yeah nothing directly disproves a supreme being but there is also zero evidence that one exsists or did exsist at anytime. Surely the supposed creator of everything would leave some trace. I know some people say creation itself is proof enough but that's just lazy and it proves nothing since they are just assuming based on zero actual evidence.

Why would god hide proof of his exsistence if he knew it would cause the deaths of billions of people over the course of history? Is god actually evil? Maybe he isn't but he's just apathetic about us? If so why should we bow down to a being who has such disregard for his creations? We don't even do that for parents who abandon their kids why should we make an acception for a being who is supposedly all powerful and all knowing? All he has to do is give people one clear and undeniable sign and all the religious strife would end over night. If god was compassionate he'd do that and bring an end to all the hate and evil committed in his name.

Btw I didn't say anything about atheism = science but people who believe in the provable(science) tend to disregard the unproven(religion).

Geeogree-
"Although I do disagree with your assumption that the Bible conflicts with science. I don't think that is true at all. I think that the way the Bible is read and interpreted is what creates the conflict."
Nope it's just not compatible with science. It was made up by human men in ancient times to control people. If you want to believe otherwise it's your right but just know that all the evidence points to this interpretation not yours. You're belief is just based on your faith which has nothing to do with reality.

"Take the seven "days" of creation. The original hebrew word doesn't mean a literal day but simply a period of time. So when we read the Bible and assume 6000 years + 7 days we are taking the words too literally."
Why would god give people the wrong info on purpose if he knew they'd fail to understand it? Why wouldn't god just tell us the accurate timeframes? I know why, because he doesn't exsist. Well, god might exsist in some form but he's not the all powerful, compassionate being most people claim he is.

Originally posted by Morsalbus

That's not even close to being true. There's no scientific evidence directly conflicting with the idea of a 'supreme being', there's only some evidence that seems to clash with the Bible, or other holy texts. One could easily believe in a God or gods without disregarding science.

And on another note: Atheism doesn't denote a belief in science. Atheism is only the belief that there is no god. A person could completely disregard all scientific fact and still be an atheist.

Yeah nothing directly disproves a supreme being but there is also zero evidence that one exsists or did exsist at anytime. Surely the supposed creator of everything would leave some trace. I know some people say creation itself is proof enough but that's just lazy and it proves nothing since they are just assuming based on zero actual evidence.

Why would god hide proof of his exsistence if he knew it would cause the deaths of billions of people over the course of history? Is god actually evil? Maybe he isn't but he's just apathetic about us? If so why should we bow down to a being who has such disregard for his creations? We don't even do that for parents who abandon their kids why should we make an acception for a being who is supposedly all powerful and all knowing? All he has to do is give people one clear and undeniable sign and all the religious strife would end over night. If god was compassionate he'd do that and bring an end to all the hate and evil committed in his name.

Btw I didn't say anything about atheism = science but people who believe in the provable(science) tend to disregard the unproven(religion).

Geeogree-
"Although I do disagree with your assumption that the Bible conflicts with science. I don't think that is true at all. I think that the way the Bible is read and interpreted is what creates the conflict."
Nope it's just not compatible with science. It was made up by human men in ancient times to control people. If you want to believe otherwise it's your right but just know that all the evidence points to this interpretation not yours. You're belief is just based on your faith which has nothing to do with reality.

"Take the seven "days" of creation. The original hebrew word doesn't mean a literal day but simply a period of time. So when we read the Bible and assume 6000 years + 7 days we are taking the words too literally."
Why would god give people the wrong info on purpose if he knew they'd fail to understand it? Why wouldn't god just tell us the accurate timeframes? I know why, because he doesn't exsist. Well, god might exsist in some form but he's not the all powerful, compassionate being most people claim he is.

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12-15-09 10:24 PM

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it's too bad he's banned because I'm wondering why he quoted my whole post and then didn't actually say anything about it. Maybe he was just agreeing with what I was saying....

I guess we'll never know.

However, I have to disagree with most of his ideas. To analyze why God does something you first have to have an understanding of the purpose of life on Earth. After you figure that out then why God does what he does will make sense. To assume that God can make life easy and perfect is true, but what's the point in an easy, care-free life?

it's too bad he's banned because I'm wondering why he quoted my whole post and then didn't actually say anything about it. Maybe he was just agreeing with what I was saying....

I guess we'll never know.

However, I have to disagree with most of his ideas. To analyze why God does something you first have to have an understanding of the purpose of life on Earth. After you figure that out then why God does what he does will make sense. To assume that God can make life easy and perfect is true, but what's the point in an easy, care-free life?

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12-16-09 01:38 PM

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Originally posted by axkick

Geeogree-
"Although I do disagree with your assumption that the Bible conflicts with science. I don't think that is true at all. I think that the way the Bible is read and interpreted is what creates the conflict."

Nope it's just not compatible with science. It was made up by human men in ancient times to control people. If you want to believe otherwise it's your right but just know that all the evidence points to this interpretation not yours. You're belief is just based on your faith which has nothing to do with reality.

"Take the seven "days" of creation. The original hebrew word doesn't mean a literal day but simply a period of time. So when we read the Bible and assume 6000 years + 7 days we are taking the words too literally."

Why would god give people the wrong info on purpose if he knew they'd fail to understand it? Why wouldn't god just tell us the accurate timeframes? I know why, because he doesn't exsist. Well, god might exsist in some form but he's not the all powerful, compassionate being most people claim he is.

He did respond to you, it was just hard to see. I spaced it out for you here.

Originally posted by axkick

Geeogree-
"Although I do disagree with your assumption that the Bible conflicts with science. I don't think that is true at all. I think that the way the Bible is read and interpreted is what creates the conflict."

Nope it's just not compatible with science. It was made up by human men in ancient times to control people. If you want to believe otherwise it's your right but just know that all the evidence points to this interpretation not yours. You're belief is just based on your faith which has nothing to do with reality.

"Take the seven "days" of creation. The original hebrew word doesn't mean a literal day but simply a period of time. So when we read the Bible and assume 6000 years + 7 days we are taking the words too literally."

Why would god give people the wrong info on purpose if he knew they'd fail to understand it? Why wouldn't god just tell us the accurate timeframes? I know why, because he doesn't exsist. Well, god might exsist in some form but he's not the all powerful, compassionate being most people claim he is.

He did respond to you, it was just hard to see. I spaced it out for you here.

Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one.

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12-17-09 12:27 AM

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I've never understood where athiests get the idea that if God exists then he should make the world a perfect place, or if God exists then he should make it obvious so that we can all know he exists without any doubt.

Like I said before, we need to understand our purpose in being on the earth at all before we'll be able to come to any understanding of why God acts the way he does towards humanity.

I've never understood where athiests get the idea that if God exists then he should make the world a perfect place, or if God exists then he should make it obvious so that we can all know he exists without any doubt.

Like I said before, we need to understand our purpose in being on the earth at all before we'll be able to come to any understanding of why God acts the way he does towards humanity.

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12-18-09 07:51 AM

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To add on to geos point. If everything was perfect there would be no point in anything. If you got something that is perfect then it would go in an infinite loop and nothing would really change. Basically we would all be machines and do everything the exact same way we were programmed to.

There can only be one point of view for anything to be perfect. If there is someone or something else that counter reacts that thought then there is no such thing as perfect. That is why here on earth nothing is perfect but where god resides it is cause no one can disagree with him in his realm probably, if they did they go to hell

If everything was perfect there would be no opinions, no choices, no business, no government, nothing basically.

I wouldn't jump the gun and say god doesn't exist.

Just because you cant: see, smell, hear, taste, touch or feel something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If there is a god, he would be a complete nothing (Kinda ironic lol). Why?

Well if you could see god then he could look good or he could look ugly. If you can smell god he can smell good or like crap. The point is, if god is perfect then there is no such things as opinions, no wrongs just rights. That is why you can't use any form of sense to find him, senses are opinion based and you can't have opinions in Gods realm.

That is why Gods realm is eternity and infinite, if you get programmed in a way to be infinite anything you become perfect like him, or perfect to the way he programmed you to be. Now you see why hell is hell, its disagreeing with others or the program itself, that is what makes the world not perfect in one bit cause we all think differently, its just not possible for it to ever exist unless everything is completely equal and agrees 100% of the time, everytime.

To add on to geos point. If everything was perfect there would be no point in anything. If you got something that is perfect then it would go in an infinite loop and nothing would really change. Basically we would all be machines and do everything the exact same way we were programmed to.

There can only be one point of view for anything to be perfect. If there is someone or something else that counter reacts that thought then there is no such thing as perfect. That is why here on earth nothing is perfect but where god resides it is cause no one can disagree with him in his realm probably, if they did they go to hell

If everything was perfect there would be no opinions, no choices, no business, no government, nothing basically.

I wouldn't jump the gun and say god doesn't exist.

Just because you cant: see, smell, hear, taste, touch or feel something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If there is a god, he would be a complete nothing (Kinda ironic lol). Why?

Well if you could see god then he could look good or he could look ugly. If you can smell god he can smell good or like crap. The point is, if god is perfect then there is no such things as opinions, no wrongs just rights. That is why you can't use any form of sense to find him, senses are opinion based and you can't have opinions in Gods realm.

That is why Gods realm is eternity and infinite, if you get programmed in a way to be infinite anything you become perfect like him, or perfect to the way he programmed you to be. Now you see why hell is hell, its disagreeing with others or the program itself, that is what makes the world not perfect in one bit cause we all think differently, its just not possible for it to ever exist unless everything is completely equal and agrees 100% of the time, everytime.

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i hate most atheists just because theyre so synical. there just as bad as radical muslims/jews and child molesting priests.

i hate most atheists just because theyre so synical. there just as bad as radical muslims/jews and child molesting priests.

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04-03-10 03:51 PM

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I'd heard a phrase once, from a pseudo-friend who had a very dim view of religion.

"I'm a non-practicing Atheist."

I suppose that sums up a lot of my feeling as well, in the general absurdity. What I would also note, is that while it has been said that God should/would not make the world a perfect place, the atheist argument that that isn't logical for a God to do would naturally flow from a common enough statement, that being "God is good."

The process is fairly simple.
If God is good, why does He allow suffering?

If a man allowed suffering when he had the power to stop it, would we call him good?

If man is created in God's image, and God allows suffering, how can we call Him good?

It's fairly simple when you get down to it. Ultimately, I find the idea of worshipping any entity which allows its Creation to mercilessly eliminate others of its own kind to be a bad idea. Free Will and Oniscience, while compatable with a sort of "Chaos Theory" fiat, that being that Free Will allows for infinite variatyion, and God can simply see all possible variations and still account for them in His plan, are still unsatisfactorily addressed.

Not to mention, why is Old Testament God prone to overt acts of World-Destruction and Personal Appearance (The Flood, The Bush, Etc.), whereas New Testament God is lovey-dovey, and doesn't make any more appearances, at least not overt ones?

When I get to thinking about it, if God is truly All Powerful, then Man has no chance to Understand Him, and what we cannot understand, we cannot call Good. By that same token, I would also argue that we could not call Him Evil. To follow furthur still, if He is All Powerful, than He would not require, or perhaps even particularily care for our worship, and it's certainly a touch of human pride that puts us in His image.

Not to mention, the existence of Hell goes directly against the idea of a Loving God. Accept me into your heart and do good things for roughly 90 years of mortal life, or burn in a cesspool of torment for eternity, all based on faith, a faith I refuse to back up with personal appearances or benign acts? It doesn't seem sensible.

Science and Religion may be compatible and everything, but the Judeo-Christian God doesn't appear to make much sense to me as an Entity to focus my devotion upon.

Of course, these are my two cents, and I'd love to hear a well thought out rebuttal.

I'd heard a phrase once, from a pseudo-friend who had a very dim view of religion.

"I'm a non-practicing Atheist."

I suppose that sums up a lot of my feeling as well, in the general absurdity. What I would also note, is that while it has been said that God should/would not make the world a perfect place, the atheist argument that that isn't logical for a God to do would naturally flow from a common enough statement, that being "God is good."

The process is fairly simple.
If God is good, why does He allow suffering?

If a man allowed suffering when he had the power to stop it, would we call him good?

If man is created in God's image, and God allows suffering, how can we call Him good?

It's fairly simple when you get down to it. Ultimately, I find the idea of worshipping any entity which allows its Creation to mercilessly eliminate others of its own kind to be a bad idea. Free Will and Oniscience, while compatable with a sort of "Chaos Theory" fiat, that being that Free Will allows for infinite variatyion, and God can simply see all possible variations and still account for them in His plan, are still unsatisfactorily addressed.

Not to mention, why is Old Testament God prone to overt acts of World-Destruction and Personal Appearance (The Flood, The Bush, Etc.), whereas New Testament God is lovey-dovey, and doesn't make any more appearances, at least not overt ones?

When I get to thinking about it, if God is truly All Powerful, then Man has no chance to Understand Him, and what we cannot understand, we cannot call Good. By that same token, I would also argue that we could not call Him Evil. To follow furthur still, if He is All Powerful, than He would not require, or perhaps even particularily care for our worship, and it's certainly a touch of human pride that puts us in His image.

Not to mention, the existence of Hell goes directly against the idea of a Loving God. Accept me into your heart and do good things for roughly 90 years of mortal life, or burn in a cesspool of torment for eternity, all based on faith, a faith I refuse to back up with personal appearances or benign acts? It doesn't seem sensible.

Science and Religion may be compatible and everything, but the Judeo-Christian God doesn't appear to make much sense to me as an Entity to focus my devotion upon.

Of course, these are my two cents, and I'd love to hear a well thought out rebuttal.

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arduin : If you were a god so vain as to make an entire peoples In Your Own Image, why would you not make it obvious you existed? I don't like how the old and new testament show completely different versions of "god." It comes across as two different entities.

arduin : If you were a god so vain as to make an entire peoples In Your Own Image, why would you not make it obvious you existed? I don't like how the old and new testament show completely different versions of "god." It comes across as two different entities.

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If there is indeed a God and you were brought into his presence today would you be confused, scared, or would you be humble with assurance? This is a reality, as there is no guarantee that you won't die today. It is a scary thought to wait for the outcome of death to arrive. There is an assurance that is offered freely, to deny it is senseless.

Well, if you end up in hell, you will practically have to climb over Jesus to get there.

If there is indeed a God and you were brought into his presence today would you be confused, scared, or would you be humble with assurance? This is a reality, as there is no guarantee that you won't die today. It is a scary thought to wait for the outcome of death to arrive. There is an assurance that is offered freely, to deny it is senseless.

Well, if you end up in hell, you will practically have to climb over Jesus to get there.

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