Firstly, i'd like to say, w00t FIRST THREAD!!!

But what do you's think about the pope, not the current one, but the position of the pope in general.

Personaly i think the pope sets a bad example for the modern Christian church. When people think of a church, they think of the pope, wooden pews and boring sermins.. Personaly... i believe this isnt really around in the modern Christian church, our chairs are comfy, our music is loud, and we dont look up to one specific leader (except Jesus, but that goes without saying )

But then agian, i may be wrong, i've seen on telly the Catholic youth day, and they do stuff like what youth groups do... So i dont know if its my view of the catholic church or if it really is like that...

Why your hear, comment on all this other stuff i've talked about

I don't particularly care for him.... mostly because he's chosen by the present church leaders.... and it's more of a popularity contest than divinely appointed....

plus he's catholic

I was about to mention the same thing geeorge, the pope is catholic... and you also have to consider the fact the religions are different in different places of the world. Just because australian or american catholics are more... fun or modern doesnt mean its the same in rome or italy.

from what i know, catholics and christians arnt that different. My whole point was, do you think the pope brings down modern christianity. IW, u been to synergy rite (youth group)?, i think u been once... and we had band and all sorts of cool thingz, ppl dont see that as christian, cos they see christian and catholic the same.

ive been to Synergy 3 times. I cant remember what they were... but oh well...

Note the first: Catholics are a type of Christian... in fact, they were the original Christian church if any of you remember your basic history. Sorry, it just irks the hell out of me when people refer to "Catholics and Christians"... "Catholics and Protestants" works since it makes sense, and they are both Christian (seeing as the only requirement for being considered Christian is that you believe Jesus was the son of God and all that).

Anyway, I really have no opinion on him... I don't hate him, but I don't like him either... of course, I still say he's Palpatine in disguise, so yeah.

Actually technically they sorta weren't the original Christian church. There was a while before Constatine was emperor then he came and more or less made it the way Catholics worship etc. today. Every sect was affected by that in one way or another.

I think he is just a man. No disrepct, but he is human like everyone else.

Vash: well, it does depend on who you ask

Catholics would claim what Elara said, since they derive their authority from Peter.... meaning that everyone that followed Peter were catholic...

I disagree with that point of view like you do.... but it does depend on who you ask

Well, i was told that the only differece was Christians say he died on the cross and came back.. but Catholics say he died on the cross... fullstop... but im not sure

No I'm pretty sure Catholics thought he came back as well.

yeah, I'm pretty sure Catholics believe that too... although, I can't recall talking to a Catholic about the ressurecction so they may just think he died

Well, i know a catholic , ill ask him.

You know a catholic? Does that mean i know a catholic...? You talking bout Josh?

One of the guest speakers at the Christian youth group i go to said that Christianity isn't a religion, its a relationship with God.

Religion
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


I'd say it is a religion. I would say rather that to be truly Christian requires having a relationship with God.

About the "original church" and all that, here's the history for those who want to know... First there was the "church" sort of formed at the Day of Pentecost, when the concept of church was invented. These people went out and started spreading the Gospel much as modern Christians are supposed to do today, and they started churches in their cities. (Note also that there wasn't a church on every street corner...there was THE church of Corinth, THE church of Jerusalem, etc. If you didn't like someone there, it wasn't like you were gonna go to the church down the street...there wasn't one. )

Around this time was when the persecution of Christians really got into full-swing, and made fully infamous by Roman Emperor Nero who burned Christians at the stake (I think the CD-burning program "Nero" is named after him, except it burns CDs instead of people ). The persecution stopped when Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and made it the official religion of the Roman Empire, which at the time covered the entire "known" world. So when it became the new official religion of "the world," the Roman church was called the Roman Catholic Church, or, "the worldwide church based in Rome."

So yes, Elara is correct that they started as one and the same. They were very organized and serious about what they did, which is a good thing. But they got too organized and too legalistic, and began to hide the scriptures from the common folk saying that a common man can't comprehend the Word of God and interpret it correctly. (A statement that, while their action was wrong, I have to agree with to some extent because of a horrible thing people do now called "prooftexting," taking one scripture out of context and basing an entire messed-up doctrine around it. But anyway...) They then hid behind this statement and leveraged it to their advantage, allowing them to tell people whatever they want and say "God said so." And because the people had no access to the scriptures or knowledge of the contents, they didn't know any better. Then they decided to help out with keeping people in line with the law by making the statements that salvation is by their works...their good deeds vs their bad. And the people accepted it.

Of course, that's when the priest Martin Luther found the scripture that says "It is by grace we are saved through faith, and not of ourselves... It is the gift of God, so that no one can boast." He realized what was going on in the church, confronted the church, got excommunicated as a heretic, and he and his sect broke off and started the Protestant Reformation.

Thank you Jake.

And for the record, I live in an area that is 98% Catholic... they believe in the ressurection. Seriously, you people are so sheltered in your concepts of religions that are barely different from your own.

Also of note: Just because I'm a Pagan doesn't mean that you can dismiss what I say in here. I study many religions and was actually raised Lutheran.

maybe I'm different but I actually trust Elara to be a little more objective than the rest of you guys when it comes to religion.

that's just me though

Thanks for the vote of confidence geeogree, it's nice to know that someone appriciates my efforts.

I can see that as well from Elara.