EDIT: Discussion closed; please vote from this thread:
https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=17100

JigSaw and Geeogree have been fighting a lot lately. I came on to find Geeogree demoted so instead of taking sides, I've demoted them both and will give them both an opportunity to give their side of the story. Than I will let the members of Vizzed decide who they think is innocent, and that person is the one who will get their staff position back.

To all other members: The voting will take place after this thread has been finalized so please no one reply to this except for JigSaw and Geeogree.

JigSaw : You will answer my question, than Geeogree will respond to your answer, and than you'll respond to his and so on.
geeogree : You will respond to this thread once JigSaw has answered my question. He will than respond to your answer and you will respond to his response and so on.

You both will get 3 replies to this thread, JigSaw will start and than Geeogree will respond to that (and jigsaw will respond to geeo and so on). In other words, you guys are taking turns giving your side of the story but this will end after you've both made 3 posts.

My question for JigSaw :

Why did you demote Geeogree? You can take as much time to give full reasons.

Why did I demote geo? Should you be asking why did I hire him in the first place? In case anyone here forgot, I hired geo a bit back after he took this board downhill and did the absolute worst things you could think of including but not limited to posting porn, forming an alliance with top members of vizzed and getting them to migrate to another site.

I rehired him AFTER DOING THAT just to be nice and give him a chance and what does he do in return? He does not respect my authority, rearranging threads and closing them when they don't go his way, and often trying to get me to fight with him. I was never viewed as second in charge of this site it was always geo. That is why there is overwhelming support in his defense. That is why all the members pm'd david about his release instead of me. Sure its easy to make geo look like the innocent guy here but that is what happens when you got a herd of sheep who listen and follow you, just like the last time.

For those that think I go overboard, I admit I do because I care about this site. I went overboard on my donation, I went overboard when developing for this board, and I go overboard when people join this site taking crap about it and disrespecting the staff.

In geos case, from all that he has done to this board and all the chances I've given him I would not call it overboard I would call it justified when I demoted him. I was nice enough to hire him again but now I regret ever doing that after the constant fighting, overruling my authority, and trying to make himself the more powerful authority figure on vizzed. I also am not fond of how he handles peoples threads, often closing them and remaking them, moving them around cause I go make a post in it.

-If I close a thread, he will reopen it.
-If I move it, he will move it somewhere else.
-If I make a statement he will argue with me and try to pick a fight and then close the thread just before I can make a reply.
-If I demote him, he will get a flock of sheep to run to david and tell them its unfair when they have no clue what is going on.

IF that were not true we would not be here right now talking about it.

Wow.... bringing that all back up are we? That's all in the past. I paid the price for it. I worked my way back up through the ranks by putting in time here. Was it a mistake. For sure! I regret it every day. However, that is old news. Let's bring this up to date and talk about the stuff that has happened over the last week which is the REAL reason why this is happening at all.


There was a debate going on in the debate forum about life on mars. Jigsaw made this reply:

https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=16828&pl=252594

You can see my response to his post below. Was that overboard? Maybe. Could I have talked to Jigsaw privately instead of saying what I did in public. Yes, I could have and I should have. What did I get in response to that post?

This:

He suggests that I should RAPE my own daughters. I was upset, but I avoided responding to him. Unfortunately you can't see that because Jigsaw moved my ask anything thread for no reason that he EVER told me. So anyway, after that incident I went to David and said that I was really upset with what was said and needed some sort of resolution about the situation. Then the board started going down and things got busy so it wasn't able to happen right away.... then today happens.

A thread was made about whether gays can be saved. It was in the Christian forum. I made a response to the thread saying how I wasn't sure whether or not they could be saved but how I'm happy that God decides that and not me. Jigsaw replied and bashed Christians for making the rules on who is saved and who isn't and saying the Bible isn't God's word and Christians are gay bashers and so on. I responded with something to the effect of: "You're ignorant of what true Christians are supposed to believe and do" He responded with "I know how you feel about gays.... with how you posted gay porn all over the board".... I responded to his post and then decided against it because all it was doing was becoming a flame war. I closed and moved the thread to the global mod section to prevent things from getting worse in public.

Then I saw this in my ask anything thread:


and then this:

Then my ask anything thread got closed, for reasons that were never explained to me so I reopened the thread. Then the thread was trashed and then it was moved into the admin forum and editthread features were removed from it so that I couldn't do anything to it anymore. Then I got demoted to newbie, lost 14 trust points and was basically powerless to do anything about it.

I'm not for one second saying that what I did was right or that I couldn't have done better in the situation, but I admit that when it comes to Jigsaw I have trouble being nice. We haven't gotten along for several years now. However, the reaction I got from Jigsaw was so extreme and over the line and disgusting that I absolutely refused to let it go. I'm not sure how Jigsaw justifies those actions that I have documented but I've gotten messages from 20-30 people who think that he went WAY overboard in what he said and that the comments were so disgusting they didn't want to hear them repeated.

When I came back to Vizzed I made a promise to myself and to David that I would do what I could to improve this board and to make up for what I did over a year ago and I've done my best to do that. I'm not perfect and I'm trying to improve.

The reason I mentioned the past is to show you how much crap I have put up with you over this long period of time. The past few days is only the breaking point of months of BS you've thrown my way.

As for you raping your daughters it was a serious question because you not only have a fetish for "gay porn" you also like to play with girls on here. It has been known in chat rooms of you shouting sexual slurs to others so that is why I am wondering why a father of 2 would do these things.

Why did I move ask geo anything? The same reason why you moved the Christian thread about gays. I was merely mimicking what you were doing to me and the thread creator to show you how it feels to get a crap response, then to have the thread shut down and moved. Not only did you re-open and close the gay thread multiple times, you did the same with the geo thread as well.

I moved your thread to an admin forum and you then move it back and reopen it. That is why I locked it and finally demoted you because you really have no respect for other peoples threads or anyone others authority other then your own.

Just because you got 20-30 messages from followers outraged by my decision doesn't make you in the right because they are not informed enough to make a decent judgment on your behalf. Guess how many emails I got? 1, but it was in regards to relaying info to you.

And if you look on the timestamps of the threads you posted it will show that those questions I asked in your "Ask Geo Anything" thread were AFTER you tried to fight me in the christian forum and where tampering with the thread, closing and reopening it.

Doesn't feel nice to have your own thread hijacked does it? Now you know how it feels to get crap responses in a thread, start a fight, then have it closed.

"As for you raping your daughters it was a serious question because you not only have a fetish for "gay porn" you also like to play with girls on here. It has been known in chat rooms of you shouting sexual slurs to others so that is why I am wondering why a father of 2 would do these things."

So, the fact that I joke around in the chat room with people justifies you in posting stuff about me raping my daughters? And not that it's any of your business, nor does it make any sense, but I don't have a fetish for gay porn.

And when I close someone's thread after we have a flame war in it.... I tell that person they can re-make the thread because I ruined it.

And I didn't try to fight with you.... I simply said that you don't understand how true Christians are supposed to act. That was hardly a fight. That was simply me pointing out that I didn't think you understood Christian doctrine. I'm not the one that got personal by bringing up gay porn.

And no it doesn't feel nice to have my threads hijacked.... I never thought it was fun. But that doesn't justify you saying anything about me raping my daughters. No matter what you say that is what has made me the most mad. You can't justify those comments no matter how hard you try. I know I can be an ass, but it's really low to say stuff like that about me and my kids. The fact that there is a remote possibility that you think I would EVER do that makes me sick.

"you really have no respect for other peoples threads or anyone others authority other then your own."

Not true. I respect the authority of everyone BUT you. I can and will never respect someone who suggests that I should rape my own daughters.

I don't regret saying what I did about your children simply for the fact that you have never listened or respected my authority all along so why should I show any respect for you.

I don't have babies but consider vizzed a family member of mine, once again you are witnessing the after effects of what you have done to me starting with your actions. You wanted to get personal messing with my family and I did the same to you.

People think I go overboard, well maybe they should not have jumped on board and started crap in the first place.

I don't care how many people back you up I know the number is high. A lot of people out there have no respect for this site, a few well established members are on that list.

It's obvious geo is the most popular here, he fits in with the crowd, people love him!!!

Trust who you want but for the sake of all that is good for this site you better becareful of who you put in power that is all I got to say. Some people will go to those lengths to destroy this site. Look to my opposition and judge for yourself. I do not wish to see it turn to trash that is why I have decided to leave. I feel if I get my job back, we will see more jesus123 and elephant543 creations roaming around posting porn and destroying this site because someone didn't get their way.

You dont have to believe a word I say just know there are some sick people here playing you, using you, to gain the advantage. I don't need to find 20-30 friends to back me up all I need is my experience as admin and what I have seen from this man in order to get his way.

"I respect the authority of everyone BUT you."

That quote of geos proves my case, its why we are here, its why I demoted him, its why I don't feel the least bit sorry for my actions against him.

"You wanted to get personal messing with my family and I did the same to you."

..... messing with your family? You don't even know half the people on the board. You don't talk to them, or spend time with them. You call them your family but you don't know anything about them.

"It's obvious geo is the most popular here, he fits in with the crowd, people love him!!! "

You even admit that I'm right.... I am popular because I actually take the time to get to know people. I interact with them. It shouldn't be a surprise that they like me more because they know me better.

"I feel if I get my job back, we will see more jesus123" - really? You think that was me? Well, I know you think that was me because people told me you thought it was me. Too bad you weren't paying attention to when both of us were online at the same time and posting an impossible amount to be the same person.

Sorry Jigsaw, but you're stuck in the past. You won't let go of a grudge and of issues that are over. I'm not the person who left the board a year ago. I've changed and grown and have spent the last year trying to make this board better. It's obvious by what you've posted here that you are stuck in the past.

""I respect the authority of everyone BUT you."

That quote of geos proves my case, its why we are here, its why I demoted him, its why I don't feel the least bit sorry for my actions against him. "

Nice job taking that quote out of context. I made it very clear that I will never respect you because of the type of person you have been. Talking about raping someones kids.... you can't justify that. You never will be able to justify that. You could have said anything about me and gotten away with it. I could have brushed it off.... but when you start to talk about my kids like that.... that is where I cross the line. If it was a joke then you did a bad job of making it seem like one.

"I do not wish to see it turn to trash that is why I have decided to leave."

does this mean you've given up? I would love for this to be over because I've been sick ever since you made the original comment about my daughters. I still can't believe you're sticking to your guns and justifying what you said. You've had many opportunities to talk to me like an adult if you thought my behavior was out of line and you never took the opportunity. Instead you resorted to personal attacks about my children. This doesn't sound like the actions of someone who is supposed to be leading this board.

They've both already replied 3 times, and geeo asked me to close the thread.

Discussion closed, please vote from this thread:
https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=17100