Hoochman : And some of these verses obviously have words after them that are about them... The first verse... That was a big, "Read the next few verses" one to me. I'll see when I read the Koran. I can tell you're just phrasing some just because they mention violence... Shall I get Google ready and give some for the Bible? I got schoolwork to do right now, but I know my stuff when it comes to skimming.

Also... Some of those are about fighting for their deity. Yeah, like that isn't in the Bible. Not every religion is gonna be all huggy and warm like mainstream Christianity. And, please, why are you dodging 90% of what I ask?

I know you are strong in your beliefs, Hoochman, and I don't intend to hurt them. I do intend to get some answers, though. Especially when you didn't even explain a thing. You gave verses, great. One problem, still no extra sources or mention of why you think what you think in your own words.

NotJon : There's a difference between the practices of people claiming to follow a religion and the actual teachings of the religion. So, picking and choosing instances of people demonstrating that "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) somehow makes all Christians scary? All the slaughter at the hands of Mohammed and the teachings he spread, and yet Christians are scarier?

bigNATE : Why are you ignoring it when Christians do specific evils but make such a generalized statement such as "all the slaughter at the hands of Mohammed." I mean the Pope ordered violence against the Muslims and that began 500 years of war. And yes, Christians are scarier. Muslims didn't go to the Americas and kill the natives, force their religion upon them, force them to move to new lands, and keep them in reservations to this day. Hitler called our country's handling of the Native Americans/American Indians a successful genocide and he knew a thing or two about genocide (just saying).

NotJon : He's not ignoring anything, unlike you he knows the difference between idiots doing extreme things and when a religion actually commands extremism.

Hoochman : So the Pope is an extremist idiot? Even if you believe that the Qur'an tells its followers to commit violence, history has shown that even if not explicitly stated, the Bible and Christianity by itself has been enough of a justification for people to do evil things.

Hoochman : Did he mention he thought Christianity was ever like the bad examples? No. You are the one who should be thinking things over if you are putting words in someone's mouth. You're making a fool of yourself, and not contributing to a thing, because Not said the bad sides of Christianity were scary. Not that he hated it.

You aren't the one to judge. God is.

Also, you still haven't given me any explanations about why those verses you posted from the Koran mean murder and violence with no reason. Please explain. I don't care how.

NotJon : History has not shown that the Bible gives reason to murder. Just shows the distortion and extremism. You're trying to do exactly what I'm always accused of, which is basing a belief on its followers. That doesn't work in slightest bit. You know a lot of people reject Christianity because it condemns sinful behavior.




KlawedFlaw : specify

Hoochman : I am not saying that. I am saying that people have used the Bible as an excuse to commit evil acts. Whether or not "an eye for an eye" or any of that gives people enough motivation to kill or harm others, I can't say. However, I do believe that it is the evil in mens' hearts that uses whatever excuse it can to commit sins.

Hoochman : How about why you think those verses mean murder?

NotJon : The Bible does not give excuse to commit evil acts. And if you aren't basing assumptions on followers, than where else do you find that the Bible gives excuses? From reading it it sure doesn't. Just people taking it out of context which is a persons fault not the Bible. Exactly, men are willing to use anything as an excuse to commit evil. I've been a Christian for 11 and a half years. The book has only condemned evil.

KlawedFlaw : The koran gives clues as to why whenever it talks about unbelievers. It refers to them as conniving and deceitful.

Hoochman : I think you're missing the point. People have done many things in the name of God that we would consider "evil." Whether or not the Bible condones it is irrelevant, it has happened regardless. Plus, the Bible says many things about non-believers and those of other religions. If the Qur'an does command evil and the Bible doesn't then fine. However, have people answered the call? I ask you what have Muslims done that was so bad?

NotJon : Its completely relevant. Christianity is so wrongly accused of something it never did. Basically Christians have been framed. What have Muslims done so bad? Well, 9 11, Mutilation of U.S soldiers. Murdering Christians and Jews.

Hoochman : Those were Muslims that were part of the extremist belief. Normal Muslims hate the extremists unless they're brainwashed. Also, America is hated by many nations. You should take this into account. We kinda got what was coming to us when we overstayed our welcome, but our welcome couldn't be overstayed or understayed because. That's right! The people likely to terrorize again would do it again!

Also, just because Christians did harm in the past doesn't mean they still did it. It doesn't mean they still should be held accountable. It doesn't mean they still used God's name for the wrongdoing. If we wanna say we are nothing like them, we don't just say, "Oh, that was a long time ago." or, "I'm nothing like that."

To be nothing like them in the world's eyes, we show love. Love is what Jesus is about. We should be about love. If we take love from our beliefs, what do we have left? Nothing. Christianity teaches love. We should show it.

I would say no.I have a few good friends who are Muslims and they are some of the best people I know.I think with every religion there will always be someone who will take something to the extreme and twist words to fit their cause. Sadly this small percentage reflex badly on the whole.

There are religions all around the world that are violent.In some parts of Albania the laws of the Kanun are still followed.In Africa albinos are slaughtered for their limbs by witch doctors,in South American there are ritualistic healing rights that are preformed on people be village doctors.And Christians,my own religion,has done some pretty violent and messed up things in the past in the name of religion.

It just upsets me how people put a negative connotation on a group when I know my friends aren't the heartless suicide bombers a lot of people believe them to be

"I would say no.I have a few good friends who are Muslims and they are some of the best people I know.I think with every religion there will always be someone who will take something to the extreme and twist words to fit their cause. Sadly this small percentage reflex badly on the whole."

Well said. And the more unfortunate thing is that the media gives the extremist groups time to spout their nonsense point of views rather than finding moderate voices that represent a far greater majority of any group.

No. Islam preaches peace and love to all fellow men. Any who worship God and follow his true message in spirit, regardless of the name they use, are considered Muslims. The only time Islam allows for killing is when a man tries to take from you what he has no right to take: Things like your country, your family, your life.

You'll find violence and extremism in any religion. It virtually never represents any true religion.

KlawedFlaw : Just because some Muslims don't like others, does not rewrite the koran. Also, it doesn't what other nations think of us. We never became a great nation by getting other nations to like us.

i am really pissed now i follow Islam and i am a Muslim we are not evil and a lot of people in the us think because of the 911 controversy all Muslims are bad there are different type of Muslims not all are bad and this thread is really insulting to me Islam believes in peace not war

Join the club, lots of people are pissed about what I say of Islam. Big deal, I hate Islam because of all the murder it condones.

Hey, I can take a group of christian extremist and hate the whole group because of one action too Ever heard of the The Lord's Resistance Army? A Christian based guerilla force in Africa that mutilates, rapes, and murders? They even use child soldiers, which sounds like a jolly good time. I might just base my whole view of Christianity off these small percent.

Have you actually ever read the Koran? Talked to Islamic people? Gone to a Mosque? Have you ever even MET a Muslim? How can a Christian, like yourself, go around hating people when you're supposed to be doling out love like it's candy?
"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without
expecting to get anything back.Then your reward will be great, and you
will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked."