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Giovanni suicidal?
A not-so-unbelievable theory...
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bigNATE
05-16-10 10:14 PM
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Giovanni suicidal?

 

05-16-10 10:14 PM
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First, watch this. Now, let me point out a couple things:
After you beat him, he claims Team Rocket has become merely an illusion...
then proceeds to leave. But when he first exits the door, there is no sound... and then a splash. His hideout is right next to a waterfall.
Then, as Team Rocket despairingly calls for Giovanni, Ethan/Lyra comments that they don't know they'll never see him again... never see him again... yet Giovanni said nothing of the sort to the player and Ethan/Lyra... NOTHING. This implies that the two kids just watched Giovanni jump down the waterfall and COMMIT SUICIDE. After watching that video, it doesn't seem too Farfetch'd to me... what do you think? Did Giovanni drown himself after being beaten by your player character in HG/SS?

First, watch this. Now, let me point out a couple things:
After you beat him, he claims Team Rocket has become merely an illusion...
then proceeds to leave. But when he first exits the door, there is no sound... and then a splash. His hideout is right next to a waterfall.
Then, as Team Rocket despairingly calls for Giovanni, Ethan/Lyra comments that they don't know they'll never see him again... never see him again... yet Giovanni said nothing of the sort to the player and Ethan/Lyra... NOTHING. This implies that the two kids just watched Giovanni jump down the waterfall and COMMIT SUICIDE. After watching that video, it doesn't seem too Farfetch'd to me... what do you think? Did Giovanni drown himself after being beaten by your player character in HG/SS?

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(edited by bignatealpha on 05-16-10 10:17 PM)    

05-16-10 10:43 PM
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Well after watching that, it only makes sense that he did. I mean, what else could have happened? All of the events add him more than likely, committing suicide Explains why he wasn't in other games.
Well after watching that, it only makes sense that he did. I mean, what else could have happened? All of the events add him more than likely, committing suicide Explains why he wasn't in other games.

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05-16-10 10:46 PM
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I don't know... That sounded too much like the radio's hiss to be water slashing. Top it off with the fact that as they warped out it played that sound again...
ENTER THE
I don't know... That sounded too much like the radio's hiss to be water slashing. Top it off with the fact that as they warped out it played that sound again...

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05-16-10 11:52 PM
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Yeah, I think he did. Everything I saw/heard proves it in my opinion. OH GIOVANNI, WHY DID YOU KILL YOURSELF? YOU COULD'VE BEEN A NEW LEADER OF A NEW CRIME GANG!
Yeah, I think he did. Everything I saw/heard proves it in my opinion. OH GIOVANNI, WHY DID YOU KILL YOURSELF? YOU COULD'VE BEEN A NEW LEADER OF A NEW CRIME GANG!

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05-17-10 03:32 AM
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Doubtful. The game is too much for kids to have a character do a think like that. Having Giovanni kill himself in a pokemon game would be like adding rape to a Disney movie. =S Plus, have you seen the episodes banned for tiniest things? No way would they ban an episode for one main couple to slightly appear as a couple and then allow a game to have a suicide. It just doesn't seem likely to me that it'd be allowed.
Doubtful. The game is too much for kids to have a character do a think like that. Having Giovanni kill himself in a pokemon game would be like adding rape to a Disney movie. =S Plus, have you seen the episodes banned for tiniest things? No way would they ban an episode for one main couple to slightly appear as a couple and then allow a game to have a suicide. It just doesn't seem likely to me that it'd be allowed.

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05-17-10 07:46 AM
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AdorableCookie : Remember, that wasn't Nintendo and Game Freak banning the episodes, so that might not be how they truly feel. I mean, they also killed Blue's Raticate in R/B/FR/LG (On S.S. Anne, he has it, in Pokemon Tower he doesn't... and he's standing at a grave. Considering his character, I find it highly unlikely he would be there for any other reason), and I know this is a rather large step further, but I still think it's plausible. Especially considering this event isn't even supposed to be known yet, and is only accessible with a certain Pokemon at this point unavailable without hacking devices (like AR). Remember, this is a Japanese game originally, and Japan has different standards than the U.S. Most of the banned episodes were banned by U.S. distribution companies, the only one banned in Japan is Electric Soldier Porygon, and that's for an entirely different reason.
Zeldisaster : Actually, that's almost the same as the sound played when going up/down a waterfall in some games (it's even practically the same one used in the Mario & Luigi series for flowing water), and there's a difference in the exit noises. Also remember, the noise is made when Giovanni walks out a cave door, where you would typically (even for NPC's) hear a much different sound, as compared to the player character and Ethan/Lyra teleporting. Also, the timing of the noise really drives it home: just enough time to make it seem like he left and fell in the water. I think they use a different noise for a crackling radio, because I think I've heard radio crackling in one of the games before...

AdorableCookie : Remember, that wasn't Nintendo and Game Freak banning the episodes, so that might not be how they truly feel. I mean, they also killed Blue's Raticate in R/B/FR/LG (On S.S. Anne, he has it, in Pokemon Tower he doesn't... and he's standing at a grave. Considering his character, I find it highly unlikely he would be there for any other reason), and I know this is a rather large step further, but I still think it's plausible. Especially considering this event isn't even supposed to be known yet, and is only accessible with a certain Pokemon at this point unavailable without hacking devices (like AR). Remember, this is a Japanese game originally, and Japan has different standards than the U.S. Most of the banned episodes were banned by U.S. distribution companies, the only one banned in Japan is Electric Soldier Porygon, and that's for an entirely different reason.
Zeldisaster : Actually, that's almost the same as the sound played when going up/down a waterfall in some games (it's even practically the same one used in the Mario & Luigi series for flowing water), and there's a difference in the exit noises. Also remember, the noise is made when Giovanni walks out a cave door, where you would typically (even for NPC's) hear a much different sound, as compared to the player character and Ethan/Lyra teleporting. Also, the timing of the noise really drives it home: just enough time to make it seem like he left and fell in the water. I think they use a different noise for a crackling radio, because I think I've heard radio crackling in one of the games before...

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05-17-10 09:12 AM
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bignatealpha : Doesn't have to be that he killed it. He has caught many kinds of pokémon in generation one and the remake of the games, and it's highly likely that he simply traded it in for some other pokémon. Plus, he's implies in the games that he's in the tower looking for Cubones and the evolved form. He says something like "I caught a cubone earlier, but I haven't found any Marwak yet. I doubt there's any left" and then he leaves, as if he's given up on finding one.
bignatealpha : Doesn't have to be that he killed it. He has caught many kinds of pokémon in generation one and the remake of the games, and it's highly likely that he simply traded it in for some other pokémon. Plus, he's implies in the games that he's in the tower looking for Cubones and the evolved form. He says something like "I caught a cubone earlier, but I haven't found any Marwak yet. I doubt there's any left" and then he leaves, as if he's given up on finding one.

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05-17-10 10:29 AM
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AdorableCookie : No, it's heavily implied that his Raticate died. It's not like he got rid of it for stronger Pokemon, his party wasn't full at all, and HE'S STANDING THERE LOOKING AT A GRAVE. Really, considering his character, he would only do that if it was one of his Pokemon that he was burying... which brings me to Giovanni. Yes, it is a step further, but it has been a few years and... this kinda stuff is rather normal in Japanese games. So I believe Blue's Raticate and Giovanni both died.

AdorableCookie : No, it's heavily implied that his Raticate died. It's not like he got rid of it for stronger Pokemon, his party wasn't full at all, and HE'S STANDING THERE LOOKING AT A GRAVE. Really, considering his character, he would only do that if it was one of his Pokemon that he was burying... which brings me to Giovanni. Yes, it is a step further, but it has been a few years and... this kinda stuff is rather normal in Japanese games. So I believe Blue's Raticate and Giovanni both died.

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05-17-10 11:54 AM
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bignatealpha : Well, I don't believe either of them died. And of course he'll be looking at a grave. THERE ARE GRAVES ALL AROUND HIM!
bignatealpha : Well, I don't believe either of them died. And of course he'll be looking at a grave. THERE ARE GRAVES ALL AROUND HIM!

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05-20-10 07:05 PM
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I'm unsure on this. On one hand, its POKEMON. A game designed for young children, so having darker themes such as suicide in a game in this genre is pretty strange. Also, the games' content is definitely easing up-- in Generation I, there is text where Team Rocket "kills pokemon" or something, going beyond the normal fainting thing. In Generation IV, there is practically nothing as dark. Stealing honey? Oh my! How scary!
On the other hand, pokemon is also getting darker in general. Take Generation V, Black and White. Polar opposites, something avoided with Firered and Leafgreen because the designers feared that it would be too extreme (at least, that's what I think it said).
I personally hope that Giovanni isn't dead. He was an interesting villain, being a gym leader and all, and he created Mewtwo (anime only), destroyer of multiplayer game in Generation I.
I'm unsure on this. On one hand, its POKEMON. A game designed for young children, so having darker themes such as suicide in a game in this genre is pretty strange. Also, the games' content is definitely easing up-- in Generation I, there is text where Team Rocket "kills pokemon" or something, going beyond the normal fainting thing. In Generation IV, there is practically nothing as dark. Stealing honey? Oh my! How scary!
On the other hand, pokemon is also getting darker in general. Take Generation V, Black and White. Polar opposites, something avoided with Firered and Leafgreen because the designers feared that it would be too extreme (at least, that's what I think it said).
I personally hope that Giovanni isn't dead. He was an interesting villain, being a gym leader and all, and he created Mewtwo (anime only), destroyer of multiplayer game in Generation I.

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05-20-10 10:10 PM
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~sakura~ : You just made me think of something... yes, Pokemon is aimed at younger kids, but it is also getting somewhat darker, going from stopping the theft of a Master Ball to stopping the end of the world as we know it. And considering all that you have to take into account to even come close to believing this theory, I'd say it's veiled well enough to be a nod to the older audience. For instance, if I didn't specifically point all the circumstances out to him, my brother (8 years old and a Pokemon nut) would have no clue. Even Zeld has a different explanation. It just means that if Nintendo did mean that, they hid it well enough kids won't get spooked.

~sakura~ : You just made me think of something... yes, Pokemon is aimed at younger kids, but it is also getting somewhat darker, going from stopping the theft of a Master Ball to stopping the end of the world as we know it. And considering all that you have to take into account to even come close to believing this theory, I'd say it's veiled well enough to be a nod to the older audience. For instance, if I didn't specifically point all the circumstances out to him, my brother (8 years old and a Pokemon nut) would have no clue. Even Zeld has a different explanation. It just means that if Nintendo did mean that, they hid it well enough kids won't get spooked.

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05-20-10 10:32 PM
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Its amazing how much we can read into this. For all we know, it could be a sound glitch or programming error (if it is, I think I will start laughing. Somehow I don't think its a glitch). As much as the evidence point to Giovanni's death, I really don't want him to have died. (Of course, I also want a legit Mew and for Charizard to rejoin the anime team...)
For all we know, all of the leaders of the villainous organizations could have died (sure, they don't run off and leave with a splash, but we never see them again). I think that bignatealpha is right though. Most children don't understand the implications of the situation, but people who do can make some interesting conspiracy theories. I've got to admit, it makes Silver's story that much more tragic- not only is his father the leader of a nefarious crime organization against which he is sworn to fight, but his father is also dead. Ouch. I personally am surprised that they put this in the English version; we lose lots of things in the translation process to tone things down a bit (except for the "dropped my balls" bit with the Juggler in Koga's gym. Just beat him in the Yellow emulator, and wish I have a screen shot). I suppose the series isn't getting darker and lighter at the same time, as that would form a paradox and the game would implode, but it seems to be happening. Team Galactic tries to end the world as we know it, as bignatealpha says, but Team Rocket KILLED the mother Marowak (Cubone's beta name was "Orphan" for crying out loud!). Team Galactic takes valuable Honey, Team Rocket makes road blocks. Both have aspects where they get darker, both get lighter. Back on topic though, Nintendo did an excellent job with this subplot. It has an air of mystery that will probably never be resolved, causing much speculation among older fans, but revealing nothing to younger fans that would scare them. I still maintain that Giovanni didn't die. He just swam to to start Team Spaceship or something. At least I hope that's what happened.
Its amazing how much we can read into this. For all we know, it could be a sound glitch or programming error (if it is, I think I will start laughing. Somehow I don't think its a glitch). As much as the evidence point to Giovanni's death, I really don't want him to have died. (Of course, I also want a legit Mew and for Charizard to rejoin the anime team...)
For all we know, all of the leaders of the villainous organizations could have died (sure, they don't run off and leave with a splash, but we never see them again). I think that bignatealpha is right though. Most children don't understand the implications of the situation, but people who do can make some interesting conspiracy theories. I've got to admit, it makes Silver's story that much more tragic- not only is his father the leader of a nefarious crime organization against which he is sworn to fight, but his father is also dead. Ouch. I personally am surprised that they put this in the English version; we lose lots of things in the translation process to tone things down a bit (except for the "dropped my balls" bit with the Juggler in Koga's gym. Just beat him in the Yellow emulator, and wish I have a screen shot). I suppose the series isn't getting darker and lighter at the same time, as that would form a paradox and the game would implode, but it seems to be happening. Team Galactic tries to end the world as we know it, as bignatealpha says, but Team Rocket KILLED the mother Marowak (Cubone's beta name was "Orphan" for crying out loud!). Team Galactic takes valuable Honey, Team Rocket makes road blocks. Both have aspects where they get darker, both get lighter. Back on topic though, Nintendo did an excellent job with this subplot. It has an air of mystery that will probably never be resolved, causing much speculation among older fans, but revealing nothing to younger fans that would scare them. I still maintain that Giovanni didn't die. He just swam to to start Team Spaceship or something. At least I hope that's what happened.

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08-09-10 08:46 AM
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if im to be honest im going to agree with Nate on this one dont you think that its abit strange that giovanni just got his organization ruined and he just lost a battle aginst a very young child that must of been humiliating plus he also lost to Red 3 years before that so he must of been very depressed and angry and so he threw hi self into the water and killed him self. also i wonder what happend to his pokemon????
if im to be honest im going to agree with Nate on this one dont you think that its abit strange that giovanni just got his organization ruined and he just lost a battle aginst a very young child that must of been humiliating plus he also lost to Red 3 years before that so he must of been very depressed and angry and so he threw hi self into the water and killed him self. also i wonder what happend to his pokemon????

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You know nate, I completely agree with you and your facts and think that that whoever says yes should just give it up. I think your idea is very plausible.
You know nate, I completely agree with you and your facts and think that that whoever says yes should just give it up. I think your idea is very plausible.

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