Bobbynibbles : You honestly think those people who did that kind of thing in Mexico and the crusades were Christians?

Do you honestly not read history? It is all in world history books, like what I read last semester.

Bobbynibbles : Do you honestly believe that just because they did something like that in God's name it's what God would want, or what most Christians would do? And there are people who claim to be Christians that aren't really.

You shouldn't base biblical teaching on the person.

Bobbynibbles : So that you could understand what Christians really believe.

But to the current topic at hand. Let's say that we are friends and you have a different friend that I do not know of. One day, that person did something offensive towards me. I got angry, walked towards you, and said, "I don't want to be friends with you anymore." Would that make sense to you?

Of course not. just because your friend did it does not mean that you have anything to do with it, and it would be unreasonable if I associate that to you.

The same way, you don't judge a group through their followers, but for what their belief system is. The same why with other beliefs, I don't judge Muslims for the terrorism in the world, or the Hindus for the conflicts in India, or the hostile tribes for the persecution on Christians. You can only judge by their doctrine.

Bobbynibbles : The point is that just because you scream "In the name of Christ" when you kill someone, doesn't make you a christian. The guy's you mentioned are an example of that, and yes, I read history.

Well, there's this video/TV series called Way of the Master that I would personally emulate. These guys (actor Kirk Cameron and author Ray Comfort) go around and talk to people, strike up a simple conversation, and using the Ten Commandments, have the people determine for themselves whether they are good enough to get into Heaven (which of course they won't be, I've never met anyone who hasn't actually broken one of the Ten Commandments). Once they realize that, teaching them about Jesus is rather simple.

Hoochman : You do know the christian church approved the Invasion of central America, for spoils and to convert the peoples there?

Bobbynibbles : I've heard worse stories. You still think just because someone kills someone else in the name of God that they're christian?

"the christian church"

which one would that be? The Catholic church? Yeah, I don't think many of us agree with many of the things that the Catholics have done in the name of God....

Hoochman : So you disavow everything evil that has happened in your religion? Shouldn't that mean that jesus was never crucified? I'm trying to get to the core here. You have to embrace everything that has happened in the past and just turn turn away to the bad things.

Bobbynibbles : Pure and simple, if you commit an evil act than you aren't following the bible.

I'm sure everyone who follows the bible has also done evil things. There is not one person who follows the bible purely. They repent for their mistakes so technically people follow the bible cause they do bad things and want to repent for them.

JigSaw : That's exactly how I would put it.
Bobbynibbles : People are Christians because we are sinners, yet we have turned to Christ for help. Not everything we do is going to be perfect, whether as a part or as a whole.

Well yes, of course people who follow the bible have screwed up, although the screw up was against the bible, the person is still forgiven.

i'm done with this. You are just not even trying to see my points. Have fun.

Bobbynibbles : Wrong. I've seen the points you try to make a lot from other people.

Bobbynibbles : With respect, Bob, I think it's the other way around. I think you're leaving because *you* don't want to listen to *us.*

Crawldragon : No, because I keep making the same points over and over. I am not a masochist. I do not revel in my own pain.

Bobbynibbles : Your point has been that because Christians have messed up, you shouldn't listen to them. Our point is we acknowledge we've done wrong sometimes, and some horrible things have been done in the name of Christ, but that does not mean Christians as a whole evil. By that stance, we could be saying atheists as a whole are evil. You just don't want to listen.