chugchu : says "if a homosexual can say that their preference is natural then can't a pedophile say that their love for children is natural and not a choice"
That's partially incorrect, a homosexual is attracted to their own genders hormones and build, but children dont put out hormones/pheramones until they hit puberty, so a pedophiles "love" of children is all a chemical imbalance in their head or caused by their enviroment.

"Or people with "OCD", they can choose to stop it anytime they want, I've watched them"
Then they only had mild OCD caused by enviromental issues rather then chemical imbalances.
I have bad OCD so I know what I'm talking about, even our doctors here in Australia agree that some cases of OCD are incurable and they would count as "mentally handicapped people".
And I'm told that even in USA that OCD is a legitimate medical condition, not just a habbit
I know this is off topic, but I really hate it when people say "oh there's nothing wrong with you, just dont do that" when they know nothing about the matter.

Hoochman : mdynasty926 said that the whole love/lust thing is off topic and I agree with him, but I will say that you have no proof that there are not homosexual couples that love each other, any more then you can prove that a man and wife do love each other.

bigNATE : says "if it were actually a gene that caused it, there wouldn't be nearly as many as there are today, because many homosexuals don't get married and have kids out of shame"
There are probally alot more then you would think, for example I know people who have basically brainwashed members of their family into thinking they are straight, and others that have guilted them into it.
Being homosexual is still a huge taboo, and there are also innumerable people that havnt "come out of the closet" so to speak and they go on to have children because it is expected of them.
And that doesnt even take into account if the gene is reccessive or not.

MegaHarv said "Choice to me implies that you decide with one specific answer" but I have to disagree with that too.
There are many times that one might eat a meal for example and be undecided if they like it or not, and sometimes things are not so black and white like "I like this" and "I dont like this".
And that's not even touching on the subject of aquired tastes.

I'll say it again- for some people it is a choice, but for most homosexuality is either part of who they are because of genes or they are that way because of enviroment.

EDITED by bigNATE:
Whatever you were searching, we don't really want to know. Thanks for the spam, though .

Honestly this site used to be one of my favorite sites on the web..... but know im pretty much done. im bisexual and believe me when i was around in sixth grade i have never been so confused honestly. Ive lost all respect for this site and many of its close minded members..... David honestly i had more respect for u than anyone else here and all the ay bashing makes me feel like ur just one of those people that just goes with the ol hillbily way of shooting gay people just cuz their different. midgets are different do u want to kill them no, is it their choice to be like that no, do u want to kill black people from what ive seen on this site it wouldnt suprise me but they cant help it. neither can gays bis or lesbians. just cuz a little book said it was true doesnt mean its absolutly without a doubt true. all the proof that u have of gods existance is i book that who knows some town psycho may have written. please all i ask u is to be openminded for once there are videos on it on this very board please dont be so hypocritical also. And David ................ im at a loss for words from here on

.... wtf are you going off about?

When did David post here?

he has other posts about the same comment

..... he has made other posts on the same "topic"???

Sorry... I'm not trying to be difficult... I'm just trying to figure out why you're in here complaining about David in a thread I don't think he has posted in.

bleh he has posted other threads either gay bashing or saying something is mentally wrong with them ....... Im sorry to david if i offended u i was out of line

Don't blame david he didn't make any posts on here. This is just a thread to discuss, not everyone is gonna agree and say homos are bad or are going to be sent to hell. Being open minded means you should not get so mad at the fact of other people voicing their opinions on the subject.

As for gods existence, I've pretty much been to hell and back with that topic. The fact is, I didn't make the christians leave when I said all the things I said. Even though some of them are close minded they still held the conversation and we kept debating back and fourth that is what makes it fun.

Without controversy like this then this forum "Debate & Logic" would not exist, the point is to debate whether someone is right or wrong, don't take it too personally because everyone has an opinion and a majority of them will not be good in your favor unless your apart of their logic.

i still feel bad about the way i acted earlier

ah, okay.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong it may be.....

I am more than willing to admit that we as humans don't fully understand biology, physiology and sexuality and how they all work exactly. We try to... but I don't think we really do.

You can't live your life worrying about what people think about you. If you want to be gay, then be gay. It's not anyone's right to tell you that you can't be gay. I disagree with homosexuality personally.... but just because I feel that it's wrong doesn't give me the right to force you to live your life differently.

Gee... I feel kind of bad for starting this thread now...

I skimmed through this thread ("skimmed", so I may have missed something) but I have not seen any radical, extreme comments against homosexuals, at least not like how you described. One needs to understand that Christians speak against homosexuality, not because it is "different," but it is a sin.

You may disagree with it, but to respond back with an assault on Christians and the Bible (especially when your comments show that you do not know what the Bible is and how important it is), it is making yourself look hypocritical from your comments towards others. Simply saying that you disagree and give support from it is enough, and with a topic that people actually consider this to be sin, it is worth talking about it.

Now, with a word of regret, there are those put too much emphasis on this one sin as a "worse" sins. That is just not true. Sin is sin, there is no difference in level of sin, and I am deeply saddened when I hear some people stop being friends with homosexuals or all out yell hateful words against homosexuals.

"You want to believe that there are homosexuals out there who have love, but I guarantee you that there are no homosexuals with a basis of love instead of lust."
That comment offended me and there were a couple other comments that were a tad offensive but for the most part I think this thread is fine.


mdynasty926 : You shouldn't feel bad, you had a legitimate question and wanted help finding the answer.

AZapp2305 : Mainly you just want to ignore those types of comments. You can't let a few comments like that ruin a good thing.

I've been thinking about it more, and I've found a clearer answer:
Thinking the thoughts and having a tendency is not a choice, it's a temptation. You can't avoid it. But you can overcome it. That is the choice: the lifestyle. Satan throws homosexual thoughts at even the best of us, at the weirdest times. But if you throw the thoughts out... then you effectively aren't a real homosexual, because you aren't living as one.

To quote Crawldragon from earlier-
"First of all, this isn't really a Christian topic, so you should probably think for yourself instead of only considering Gods opinion"

In any case it doesnt matter whether or not people think that homosexuality is "bad" or against their beliefs, that isnt the topic here.
We have already had gay bashing threads so dont turn this one into anther one people.
The question is whether or not you personally think being gay is a choice or not, not what your little rule book says about it being a good or bad idea.
Thanks.

bigNATE : Here's a article that you might find interesting. http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

Zamiel : I have one thing to say about that article:
I cannot take his argument seriously when one of his points is that today's society doesn't behave the same as in the Bible's times. I quote "In fact, the Bible accepts sexual practices that we condemn and condemns sexual practices that we accept. Lots of them! Here are a few examples." If you are willing to throw out parts of the Bible that deal with sin simply because today's society ignores its teaching, then you aren't teaching the truth. In that same paragraph, he says "The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king's having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the scriptures"
1. I'd like to see that verse. I highly doubt there's a verse that claims the husband can acceptably have sex with a prostitute.
2. Polygamy was looked down on. Just because Solomon had many wives doesn't mean God agreed that that was all fine and dandy. He specifically warned Solomon not to engage in practices as such.
3. Slavery was much different back then, they were really just servants and captives from conquered lands
4. Sex with slaves? Once again, he's got something wrong here... unless said slaves were only still slaves because they decided they wanted to stay slaves after marrying their master.
5. Young marriage was prevalent, but not that young. It was more likely 15-16.

When he gets all this stuff wrong, I can't actually believe him when he says "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." means homosexuality is OK.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel I have to explain why I disagree strongly with the article.

bigNATE : While I'd love to debate some of the things you brought up I don't think this is the place to do it since it mainly involves ways to interpret the bible and what it says about homosexuality. I probably should have just posted it on your profile . I have the feeling that you really didn't read it the article thoroughly.

Yay time to bring on the wrath.

Fact: I know a lot of homosexual people. Friends, family members, etc. The following is firsthand information.

IT IS NOT A CHOICE!!!

A lot of my gay friends admit that they did not like discovering that they were gay, but that the opposite gender just did not attract them at all and never had. They tried hiding it, tried dating the opposite sex, but nothing came of it.

Honestly think about it, would you choose to be harassed on a nearly daily basis, discriminated against, assaulted, or even murdered because of who you were attracted to?

Yes, a lot of homosexuals have come to terms with it and learned to love who they are, because that is the only way that they can attempt to make a difference. Just like with all differences, if you just take the punishment nothing will change (look at civil rights, women voting and labor laws).

Nextly, I know a lot of Christian, Catholic, and even Jewish gays. My cousin among them. If you are raised in the faith, you don't lose it because you come out of the closet. It is what you know, what you believe. They usually just accept that "God" made them the way they are and loves them anyway.

I respect your views as a Christian because I am a Christian too, but I honestly don't believe for a minute that being gay is a choice. I have a gay friend that honestly tried his hardest to like women. He had many many girlfriends and even had sex with one of them. He said he hated every minute of it because it just didn't feel right. He's the main reason I believe it's not a choice. If it was a choice, he could have chosen to like those women instead of men, but his body and mind just wouldn't let him.