So in the light of many terrorist attacks that have gone on in Europe especially in France at the hands of IS I wanted to talk about this. Now IS is despicable as an organization and I'm against everything they stand for, I think the same can be said for 99.9% of people in the western world. They should be stopped no doubt about it. However many people seem to equate IS with representing the majority of muslims and really just see Islam as this dangerous religion. The source of all the bad that has gone on recently and this is what I want to talk about in this thread. To hopefully bring another perspective maybe even clear up some misconceptions. 

Firstly talking about IS, what one should realize is that the biggest victims of their actions is not us living in western countries. In fact it is other muslims living in the middle east and IS main countries of operation. 60% of terrorist attacks do in fact take place in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan which are all predominantly muslim inhabited countries, it just doesn't get as much media attention. Many reports estimate that something around 80-90% of deaths caused by acts of terrorism are of muslims. This is IS commiting acts of terror towards those living in these countries, taking their homes away from them,  their way of living even killing entire families and in some cases forcing them to fight for them. There is no group of people that wants IS to be stopped more than other muslims. Even France, arguably the most affected western country by their actions also have one of the largest muslim populations living in it. People who have lived there since long before the organization became a threat. These people are also affected by their actions. This is all because IS do not represent the majority of muslims, not even close to it.

Indonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in the world have been declared as "infidels" by the organization. The country with the largest muslim population aren't considered true muslims by them, and the biggest victims of their acts are other muslims. I think it's pretty clear what we're dealing with is religious extremists, not an entire "evil" religion.

Now you might be with me so far but you may still see Islam as this dangerous religion, the cause of these acts of terror. That's another thing I want to address. Now those who think this aren't all Christians, but I think a good amount are purely statistically considering how a very large portion of people living in the western world are Christians. This in mind, something politicians and media on either side often fail to convey is that Islam and Christianity are two very similar religions. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all very similar due to being abrahamic religions. 

As you know Christian scripture is made up of the Old Testament and the New Testament. The main scripture within Islam is the Qu'ran. The Qu'ran largely consists of many of the same events told within Christian and Jewish scripture. Sometimes it's summarized, sometimes it dwells more on these events however in principle it is still the same. It also contains many other important people from these religions, the Qu'ran even acknowledges Jesus as a prophet sent by god though he is not seen as the direct son of god. Of course the two religions still have points like this where they differ, otherwise they wouldn't be two different religions so I'm not trying to say they're exactly the same. My point is more that they're more similar than they are different.

They both have a very similar "framework" and aren't originally these widely different religions people seem to think they are. Though one might point to the barbarity going on in many predominantly Muslim countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and see this as caused by Islam I think one is failing to identify the actual circumstances causing this and just pointing to the first best thing. Both Muslims and Christians live in these countries much as we used to in the western world. Hundreds of years ago we could still see sacrifices being made in the name of christianity. It's not some sort of behavior exclusive to just the Muslim population and that's because it isn't caused by either religion specifically. It is more so because society is less developed, especially considering how politically and socially unstable many of these countries are, often having suffered from reigns of brutal and oppressive dictators and poverty being much more widespread. It is because of society as a whole being less civilized. 

Lastly I want to talk about muslims in the western world. I think a lot of people see Islam and muslims as "incompatible" with the western world. Because of the way of life they're used to, this is something pretty close to home to me. I live in Sweden in an area that's largely inhabited by muslims. A lot of my friends are muslims even relatives (some are probably like oh. here he goes again but I feel it's relevant to this post ). Yes it's true these people don't magically adapt to western society and our values as soon as they immigrate. But I feel like that can be said for anyone immigrating to any country, it takes time to adapt to a completely new way of living. Time has also shown to me that as new generations are born these people are able to adapt to western society whilst keeping their religion. It causes perceptions to change. Really the chaos we've seen here in the EU I feel isn't because of this people but rather incompetent politcians. With some countries taking in far more people than they can handle and simply not being equipped to help them properly become part of society.

The truth is, think some people like to falsely point out Islam as the source because it is something that is already seen as foreign by a lot of people. It being a common factor many people in these countries share it's one of the first things people look towards when looking for something to pit their blame at. This combined with lack of knowledge about the religion and how media often seems to focus on vilifying it doesn't seem to help. Of course I don't expect you all to fully agree with me after reading this, but if anything I hope that you at least take what I said here into consideration. The truth is that no matter how you look at it, these are still people just like the rest of us.

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100% on this. It's easy for someone to point the finger and say if one is evil, they all must be evil. I think a big part of it is fear of the unknown. Not many westerners, outside of Muslims themselves (at least in America) know all that much about the religion, and assume since these atrocities are being committed so often by people who follow it, the religion is the sole cause of it all. It doesn't help the media, at least in the western world, as you said vilifies the religion as a whole, instead of those individuals who are actually causing the problem.

Also, not too many people realize that Islam, like most of the widespread religions, actually teach great values and to be a good person overall. Just like any religion, there are those who have a warped perspective of what it means to serve their God, instead of actually following the teachings the way they were meant to be followed. Another thing a lot of people forget, like you said, is both Christianity and Islam were created in the same region of the world, and even have some of the exact same stories and teachings as one another. 

I've said this before in other posts, but the media plays a huge role in what causes so many people to fear and hate the religion the way they do. I've always believed the government and media try to use fear-mongering to justify whatever they are currently trying to accomplish. For instance, if we're in constant fear of terrorist attack, then they can justify spending more on our military than the other top 25 or so countries in the world PUT TOGETHER (and yes, this is at least very close to being accurate for the US). 

I don't understand what makes people so quick to judge and condemn someone for simply believing in something different. If you follow that logic, every single religion and ethnicity should be judged equally, as atrocities such as this happen because of every type of person imaginable. Is it really so hard to judge someone by their own actions, and not the actions of someone else, who probably lives in another country, or even halfway around the world, just because they believe in the same God? 

The one thing I would want people to realize, is that no matter what God you believe in, or even if you don't believe at all, we all had to come from the same one...

i find it unfortunate how hatred and ignorance are so prominent these days that articles of this nature even need to be made, but hopefully people will learn and grow after reading them. all i want to say is the time and effort you must have put into this is highly appreciated and, considering how little some people know (or bother to explore) about "the other" these days, very important. i hope it pays off. i honestly didn't expect to see a thread like this coming from someone other than green, ima, or i, so i mean this sincerely: thank you so much for being a REALLY cool user™ !

I'm Muslim myself, and I hate it how people judge Islam because of IS. Islam is a religion of peace, and terrorism has no religion. Yes, Islam. Christianity and Judaism are all extremely similar, and it's a fact. Islam is not a religion of terrorism, and if those people in IS really read the Quran, they would not kill people.

That's also one of people's main problems these days: They judge too quickly. You know the saying, don't judge a book by its cover, and I believe this is the case. If they think Islam is a dangerous religion, then I'm afraid they're mistaken. The Quran has clearly stated that killing is forbidden.

*Sigh* why can't we just all get along? :'( This makes me sad, this makes me want to cry. I have a story to share for you guys, and I hope it is a true story:

A Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, an Atheist, an Agnostic, and a Buddhist all enter a coffee shop. They all talk, have a coffee, laugh, and all become best friends. This is what happens when you're not being an idiot. I love your thread by the way.

I just really want to thank you for making this. I love people of other religions (and in your case no religion) defending other religions. So I just want to say that I really appreciate it.

Anyway, like green I am a Muslim and I completely agree with you on this.

One of the things that annoys me most is people forgetting how similar Christianity and Islam are.

In the end I'm honestly not mad at people hating me & Islam because its something I'm used to now, but I hope that we one day can all get along. Sadly, though history proves it has been impossible for us to do so.

Islamophobia, like racism, happens when a person accuses ALL Muslims of X, whatever it may be. This form of collectivism is ugly and equates the individual with an arbitrary characteristic.

That being said, the word has been used and abused to describe a person that is the slightest bit critical of Islam, which is not the case. Islam, like most religions in my view, have this terrible habit of wanting to impose their views to others, by force if necessary. In addition, there have been too many reports of migrants from Muslim countries committing acts of atrocities (rape, murder) in the name of their religion. Pointing out these barbarian acts is NOT islamophobia and MUST be talked about loudly so they know that a normal, civilized society does not tolerate them.

Unfortunately, politicians and "useful idiots" bend over backwards to try and either hide the barbarian acts (Hollande hid the fact that the terrorists at the Bataclan tortured their victims) or by accusing other people (migrants, not native Germans, were responsible for massive rapes in a New Year's celebration in Germany).

In short, islamophobia is denigrating a person based on the fact that they are Muslim. But pointing out the barbaric practices too many still consider OK is not. Nor is drawing Mohammad.

Though it may never find the people I intend to send it to, a message to the passive Muslim majority: As a Christian, I know that I would not put up with the corruption of the public image of an entire religion, especially my own. I realize that a great many of you in particular live in fear of the militant radicals, likely more than anyone else, but by fearing them, you're letting them win. Publicly condemning  them isn't enough. When it really comes down to it, it's up to us, the community, to take care of our own problems. We have to flush out and expose the cells that are in hiding. We have to shut down the known wahhabi mosques and bring to the authorities' attention not just their presence, but they're location, names, contacts, habits and routines. We disagree on a great many things, spiritually speaking, but the common ground we share is the belief that mass murder and the iron fisted rule of theocracy is in no way acceptable or tolerated in any civil society.

janus : I was talking about islamophobia in the form of having a prejudice against people based on them being muslim.  Thinking of the religion and its followers as a threat to western society in some form. Which I think many people are guilty of whether they admit to it or not. Hence why I made this thread. Nowhere did I state that people shouldn't be critical of religion. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to justify any crimes commited by people who identify as muslim, but I don't think the entire religion and its followers should be blamed for it. Which is often the case when a muslim commits a crime. I also think these reports are largely exaggerated by right wing sources and even so the people who commit these acts constitute far from the majority of immigrants. That said I do think the person should face the consequences of the actions, I'm not saying they should be excused.

I also think people in general are more critical of Islam than they are other religions and like to put a spotlight on it. When someone who commits a crime is muslim it will always be brought up in media, but you won't see the same treatment when a christian commits a crime. I'm someone who is very critical of religion, I am an atheist myself however I don't see the necessity in doing that when all it serves to do is make it worse for people who already constitute a minority in western countries and are heavily looked down upon by many. It encourages people to simply accept what the media tells them about islam as a "bad" religion in stead of actually researching about it themselves and breeds misconceptions. Leading to the islamophobia and we vs them attitude we see today being so widespread in the west.

ISIS (and the "terrorist" agencies before it) is anti-Islam, and function as a device to enable anti-Islamic groups such as the USA, UK, EU and Israeli forces to act with impunity.
The same goes for France, as the population have, in mass, protested against the goverment and martial law which in light of recent events showed not to protect the people, but served to protect the goverment from the people.

To repeat: ISIS is anti-Islamic. A false flag.

If every muslim is a terrorist, then it must be safe to assume every christian is homophobic, amirite?

Zlinqx : Relax; I was not talking about you. I was talking about too many politicians and people in general in Western countries. Also, I do not know how are things in the Swedish media, but in the US it seems that every time a crime is NOT committed by a White male Christian they try to hide his identity for some reason.


Yes, there are bad people in every religion. However, EVERY religion (at least he monotheist ones) are based on dichotomy: we are right, they are wrong and need to be converted / submitted / killed. Judaism was this way, so was Christianity and so is (seemingly) still Islam. Saudi Arabia has been known to finance extremist mosques in Western countries to propagate violent thought.s

On3On : Uh.... I might be misunderstanding your post. For clarity, are you saying that they were put up by or are in league with said countries as conspirators...? I mean, next you'll be telling me that there was thermite at ground zero and the big, Jewish illuminati bankers run the US. If I misunderstand, though... correct me.

Not the place to joke.

janus : Whether or not that is true it doesn't mean that's the way its followers are going to act. Society has developed past that mentality. Everyone interprets the Bible/Qu'ran/Torah differently. I'd argue they even contradict themselves a lot of times since they usually also teach that murder is a sin. Teaching both values I find good and bad. So there's room to interpret it from either perspective, but that's another discussion goes beyond the topic of the thread. Highlighting how Islam and Muslims aren't some big threat and how it's actually very similar to Christianity.

Still if that's your standpoint wouldn't it make more sense to primarily criticize Christianity considering it's the most popular religion in the western world being seen as the norm in many western countries? It's the religion that actually plays a role in society and has a lot of influence here. Islam already faces a lot of criticism so it doesn't really seem like people need to be made more aware especially when that only seems to propagate islamophobia and cause Muslims to be seen as a threat. It has the opposite effect since in stead of making people be more skeptical of religion and think more deeply about their beliefs it mostly just causes them to blindly hate on Islam.

 As for Saudi Arabia financing extremist mosques, it's also a dictatorship. What their government is doing is more or less entirely out of the people's control, if anything it further goes to show how politically corrupt many of these countries are.

On3On : I wasn't joking. Don't get me wrong... I'm not mocking you, but I will state that your assertion is patently silly.

Zlinqx : However terrible religions are / were in the past, Christianity does not foster (or so little) violence in its name nowadays. According to numerous surveys, a great majority of Muslim: approve of death for apostasy, homosexuality and adultry, they agree that women must be "humble" and be submitted to their husbands... I would be surprised to see even 5 percent of positive answers amon self-declared Christians in the US on the same subjects since the Bible talk about it.


Had we been 1000 years back (with the present state of knowledge) I would have been more critical of Christianity because it was keeping Europe in ignorance. That's not being Christianophobic, that is being realistic. And pointing out that a majority of Muslim approve stoning adultrous women is not islamophobia, it's reality.

Yes, I know that indivudally people are innocent. By now you should know that I hate amalgations of any sort and that people are first and foremost individuals. But one has to be blind to see that Islam in the twenty-first century preaches what Christianity did during the Crusades and the Inquisition. Our countries are safe as long as governments stand up and uphold the rule of law and our constitutions. This is why extremism is so recent in the US; unlike Europe a strong civil society was able to develop completely independent of governments (especially in DC) so immigrants could easily integrate. The same can not be said for countries like France, where immigrants were forced into ghettos where they (sadly) unavoidably developped extremist elements.

m0ssb3rg935 : No that was discouraging and a way of saying my post offers no relevance or insight, and comparing it the awful and disrespectful conspiracies around an earlier event - like this conversation won't go anywhere.

janus : The point I'm making is that if you compare the religions side by side they're actually extremely similar. So it's not a case of the religion being different rather them being interpreted differently. Both religions can breed violence just look at Christians, living in those countries as well. I bet they would give very similar answers. Also I can tell you as someone who lives in a neighbourhood inhabited largely by Muslims that while many do not approve of homosexuality or apostasy none advocate a death penalty. I doubt the case being different with any Muslim that has lived for a while in any western country.

If you've seen surveys saying that Muslims approve of a death penalty against homosexuals I would very much like to see them. If they surveyed people in countries like Afghanistan or Pakistan then it's to be expected considered it's the norm there, that's the way most people are used to it being. Even Christians there would likely share that belief, but perceptions change once people immigrate to western society. The point I've been making all along, is that it's not a case of a specific religion causing problems.  It's more because society as whole is less developed which is further propelled by these beliefs often being pushed onto the population by their governments.

janus : That really depends in what country that question is asked.  In countries like afghanistan, saudi-arabia and the like many of them would sadly say yes because its so normal there.

Ask the questions in other countries, hell even in other middle-eastern countries like turkey i don't think you would get that response.

All i'm really going to say is welcome to News propaganda, 

It's not as bad here (UK) as let's say the US, however news companies want their stories to sell, they want their stories to be viewed by millions of people.. what better way than to constantly report about how Islam is a threat to the world. It's a bit of basic psychology as well, get the viewers to be paranoid, make then scared so they seek out more information to ease their mind etc... 

Luckily most people can see through it, but obviously not everyone does. 

Religion will naturally cause conflict and it has done for millennia, Heck people in general cause conflict. So it's not precisely a new thing either. 

I have worked in the immigration/asylum sector for about 2-3 years... and let me tell you something... most of the people i've spoke to face to face are usually actually more polite and respectful than the actual  residents of the country, Obviously there is people that are not, but that is to be expected. 

and let's not forget Christianity has seen its fair share of violence and murder as well.