I am just going to start off by saying that I do not know as much about this as I know about other topics. I am still pretty knowledgeable about it, just not as much as abortion or gun control.

What do you think about illegal immigration and the crisis at the US-Mexican border?

I think that we need to guard the border very heavily. I say we put tons of armed guards there and have them shoot anything that tries to stop. That will stop the problem. It may seem a little extreme, but we need to stop the constant flood of illegals into the country. Obama did the worst thing he could have done by saying that we will take in illegal children.

Now about illegal immigration in general:

I am completely against it and I think we need to stop it. Don't get me wrong, I am all for immigration, just as long as it is legal. I don't think it is fair that illegals that don't pay taxes and aren't citizens come here and get tons of free crap, that the working citizens are paying for.

What do you think about the crisis at the border, and just illegal immigration in general?

I hate to argue with someone who shares my opinion with gun control, but honestly if you were in a regular impoverished broke immigrant's shoes, wouldn't you want to go to the "best country in the world"? Now honestly, Mexicans aren't taking our jobs, you think a high reputable job would take them? No, that would hurt the companies image if they were caught, instead they take the jobs that people don't want, my mother is a conservative, yet she agrees completely (or maybe this is just bias because my father was illegal, but this is off topic) about the fact that illegal immigrant's shouldn't be illegal. For one, they still pay taxes, 2. The immigration office is very picky, they (understandably) Generally allow students, High skilled workers that are in short supply in America, escaping oppression, or to see legal family. The economy is benefited from Pablo's 2$ an hour labor for 18 hour shifts, why? Because the prices on the said product go down with all those cheap jobs they're filling in, because honestly if Americans were this desperate for work, they would take the crappy job, but instead they prefer a welfare check paying them 2x or even more (So I guess we both agree on how the welfare system is abused?)  And finally, Immigrant's pay taxes and child support, yet do not receive food stamps, welfare or tax returns, meaning they are giving the government FREE MONEY, the only benefit they get from this is schooling and emergency medical care. Now I know if you didn't just TL;DR my post, you probably think I'm biased because I mentioned my dad is illegal, well no actually, while I love my father, I still think he needs to follow the laws, and if that means he gets sent back to the impoverished crime infested El Salvador, I gotta suck it up! (Although my dad's fighting for a citizenship, so looking forward to see if he wins!)

The United States has a process for people becoming American Citizens, or getting their Visa's, or those kind of things. We have never done this before, so why in the heck are we doing it now? I swear, Obama is the worst thing to ever happen to this country. He cost me my job with the Army, down sizing it when it did not need to be. His excuse? Costs. Costs my butt. You could use those costs to keep our Constitution upheld, protect our borders, and keep out military strength up. But where do you cut these costs? Government officials. I have heard that Obama has tried to get rid of the Constitution and make himself King. HA!

If Obama is going to let Illegal Immigrants into the United States of America, he might as well go ahead and allow Terrorists to come across out borders and wage their Holy War here. Then, maybe he would actually see that our military strength was just fine the way it was. I mean, all Obama is doing is making a worse mess than freaking Bush Jr did. Obama has tripled our debt, caused so much problems, and even prove that he is qualified to be the President. Hell, with Obama's logic, Arnold could be the President. Sad thing about that, though? Arnold would do a heck of a lot better job than Obama. 

Yeah, I got beef with Obama. He does not do his job. He goes against out Constitution. And then he says that he is going to help Illegal Immigrants INTO THE COUNTRY?! Does the word Illegal mean anything to Obama? I am glad that piece of trash is not my Commander in Chief anymore. For crying out loud, they sent ten thousand Nation Guard troops to go protect the border if I remember correctly. I mean, come on now. That would not even be necessary if Obama would not be doing the crap that he is doing. 

So yes, I think there is a crisis at the border. There is a system for people to get into the United States of America, and they need to learn to freaking follow it if they want to be a part of our country. 

Cradily is love : Not all illegal immigrants are like that. There are PLENTY that come here, go to the hospitals for free, don't pay taxes, and take the same jobs that citizens do only they get hired instead because they do it for less than minimum wage.

thing1 : If he is so concerned about costs, maybe he should shut down his multi-billion dollar failure known as Obamacare.

Actually, ObamaCare is helping me get the medical treatment I need for my back, so I am actually not against it. However, it should be tweaked to who is allowed to get it, and what-not. Same thing with Welfare and Food stamps. 

Because of the multiple processes already in place to gain citizenship, I cannot concede to allow illegals the benefits of citizenship. No minimum wage, no SS, no welfare, etc. They aren't Americans, so they are not the responsibility of America. However, I have compassion, and do not want to deport them. Let them stay, work for cheap, send money home, etc. If an individual becomes a problem, I have never had a problem with prison labor...

tgags123 :   the total amount of immigrant's in the us pay between 90 to 140 billion a year in local, federal and state taxes, that's no pocket change, what is obama doing with all this money? Maybe paying "corrupt leaders" to stay corrupt in undeveloped countries (that's a conspiracy theory I follow) If you need citations, http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm there you go. Yes the free hospitals are a thing we can agree on, but the cheap labor generates lower market prices and opens up new jobs believe it or not, as immigrants can open up businesses and they don't "Only hire fellow immigrant's", and the cheap labor brings lower costs, which in turn expands businesses and ultimately leads to more job openings, illegal or not.

tgags123:

I am not extremely knowledgeable about this topic myself either, but may come back with some research later. ^^'

We shouldn't be rewarding people who come in here and do not obey the rules. If they'll come in here illegally, then what else are they going to do? Plus they bring drugs and other illegal stuff in here, it's not good, not good at all. 

Obviously, they have to be stopped.

The question to me, is how far do you have to go?

Well, if you make the consequences bad enough, then that will remove a lot of it, although I dislike the idea of just shooting at people, if they're smart, they won't risk their lives knowing that we're serious about keeping people out! That should bring it down to where only people with high paying drugs and other stuff will be trying to get in, eliminating more innocent people who don't find it worth coming in here illegally. The only people who really need to come in here illegally are those who want to perform illegal activities, otherwise, be patient, and do it the legal way!

The other problem is they don't stand for what we stand for at all.

They take jobs that should belong to young teens that are native here in the U.S. (these immigrants aren't going to  necessarily pay taxes either), They don't assimilate and bring in bad ideas sometimes, cause they don't understand why our country was better than thiers. We are a great country cause we don't do the things that other countries do as much. Like drug activity, and we are more free, but, freedom only works with a moral populace. XD

I know two people of Mexican, and (mostly) Hispanic decent who I work with, and they are decent people, and pretty much all-American. 

They're fine, I just want people to come here, the right way.


thing1 :

Illegal immigrants means more votes for Obama, not that he needs it with A.C.O.R.N. and others helping though.

Here's what He and his pals always do.

1 take money from people who work hard

2 give it to people who will vote for you for taking that money from the hard working people

3 make everyone lazy bums who will vote for you to take money from people who deserve it

= purchasing votes.

How is shooting civilians any different from terrorism?
Killing people for trying to feed their familys is murder, and frankly, approving of it is manslaughter. Can you tell me how you profess to be christian, yet advocate killing men, women and childre? Good luck getting into heaven with that attitude. This is exactly the reason you should not have a gun.
Its a problem that needs dealt with, but if you start shooting civs, all that willhappen is other counyrys will stop doing business with you. That, by the way, is bad for the economy.
As for detering them, every day people in africa try to get to europe. They die crossing the desssert, they often get sold into slavery by the traffickers, travel in worse conditions than the slave trade, have their ships capsize or suffucate due to the huge number of people on board, and if they survive that, they are intercepted by italys navy and sent back.
Then they do it again until they die.
Death doesent deter people who have no worth while life.
If you shoot civilians then you are a terrorist state, that simple.

 

thenumberone:

How is it different?

Easy.

We shoot them for coming into our land without permission.

Terrorists come into our land and crash planes into towers where people are just minding their own business.

I did not say that I liked or wanted to do, but the more people try and do stuff, the more severe you have to make the penalty, till no one wants to break the law.

I don't claim to be a Christian. At all. I may as well be serving a completely different God, though not quite. I'm surprised that no one has guessed at what I believe yet on this site really.

"Its a problem that needs dealt with, but if you start shooting civs, all that willhappen is other counyrys will stop doing business with you. That, by the way, is bad for the economy."

They are only civilians in their own country. Not ours. They could just come in here the right way, but they choose not too. If we shoot at them, people who are more, "innocent" stop coming cause it's not worth risking their lives, that limits it down to those who have to come in here illegally on account of drugs, though I'm sure there are those who have found ways to come in here legally and just hide the drugs. The real Terrorists are the Muslims who kept moving into Britain and took it over on account of immigration.

Why would you keep sending them back? spending 3 x as much money as you have to. True, shooting them won't eliminate all people trying to cross the boarder, but these people are not respecting are rules. Some of them launder money, and worse. This is our country. Not theirs. They can fix their own, or start their own rebellion. If they want to come in here, they can do it by the rules. You don't break the rules to enter a football team, and then expect them to keep you on the team. The fact that you "cheated' to get on says something about you.

It is true that death won't deter people who have no life worth living. But with them gone, it saves us a lot of money and strife. I don't like doing it, but I view it as something necessary. It's like peace through strength. In my castle, in one of my war games, I have 250 men stationed there. But you only really need 100 to make a castle safe. Why do I have 250? Well, other than it's nice to have a wide selection of soldiers to choose from- 250 is so many that no one would even dare to a 2 week siege, and loose so many of their own lives and try to take it. 100 guys would keep it safe, but may result in someone thinking that they could take the castle every once in a while. Not many people will try and do the impossible. Of course there are those that will try. But this will eliminate a lot of immigration just by putting force in place. People simply won't try. Sure, there'll be blood at first. Pretty stupid to try and cross an armed boarder though when you could come in legally. We have standards albeit them eroding. With the media though, I guess that the first time something like this was enforced, they would be all over the first shot victim. Talking about how evil the U.S. is for doing this, not even thinking about how stupid it was for someone to even try in the first place. I would like to try other stuff first, for I agree that this is an extreme measure. BUT, I don't know much about this topic or about what has already been tried. Be back with more info.

sop281:

It's not their land. We own this land.

. . . And they own all the casinos. . . 

thenumberone : First, I am not a Christian. Well I am, but I don't believe in the Bible or anything. Second, you think it is ok to kill innocent children for doing nothing but existing, but you don't think it is ok to kill criminals? There is something wrong there. Third, they are not just civilians. The minute that they cross the border illegally, they become criminals. Fourth, the difference is that terrorists attack a country, where as this would be protecting a country.

sop281 : We came here and conquered. We own this land now. That is war. That is different than illegally coming into a country. By your logic, we should still be 13 colonies and no country should ever conquer another.

tgags123 : I did not say that we should only have 13 colonies, but there are better ways to obtain land. Also, it was barely war, it was pretty much total genocide. It is not different than illegally coming into a country, with the exception of the past actually being worse than the present. There was mass slaughter, and stealing of land. Illegals nowadays are not really conquering the area. And I don't know anywhere in the world where it is technically legal to conquer another country. 

tgags123 : Illegal immigration is definitely a serious problem in this country. But putting armed guards at the border, instructing them to "shoot on sight" anyone trying to cross illegally? What message does that deliver to the international community about this country? I've never agreed with the "shoot on sight" ideal. How about instead, capture them, find out who they are. If they're non-violent, offer them the opportunity to become an American citizen, if they are violent, then lock them up / send them back / shoot them / whatever the situation calls for.

Now, I'm not saying I disagree with you entirely. Had I the power to suddenly create laws, I would streamline the immigration process to make it much, much simpler, but then give every single illegal immigrant in this country 180 days to become documented, otherwise they're deported immediately if they fail to meet that deadline. No questions, no trial, no nothing. Get your paperwork together or there will be a bus in your driveway in 6 months ready to take you back to wherever you came from. Any refusals at that point could be met with violence. That's another bad message to send to the international community, but at that point, something must be done.

sop281 : You're right, nowhere in the world is it legal to conquer another country. But it still happens anyway. That is something that is above the law, because when you invade and topple a government, you basically write your own law. Essentially, whatever you say goes. Our ancestors were nothing short of demonic to the American natives, and our current people honestly aren't a whole lot better. But, getting back to the argument at hand, no, illegal immigrants, from Latin America or from anywhere else, they are not overthrowing our country. Until the day that men in uniform come marching through our borders, I'd say there's nothing to worry about in that respect.

tgags123 : yes, your corrrect, we do need to do shoot them, but what good would it do? our President loves illegals and no matter how much we kill them, they will keep making children and going to the border to cross is. killing ones that have no reason to live is hopeless.

Sword legion :
The laws of man are apparently lesser than those of god, and god commands you to help those less fortunate than yourself, not annihilate them.
Equally, if creation is true, America was never meant for you, he put the natives there.

And they (immigrants) are civilians regardless of where they are. Soldiers do not stop being soldiers when they enter your land. They are not citizens of America, but they are still civilians.

But if killing offenders is cheaper, lets just kill all offenders. From murderers down to public disturbance/breach of the peace. From the ages of 100 down to 5.
It would save money after all.


Terrorists come into our land and crash planes into towers where people are just minding their own business.

Being a terrorist isn't hijacking a plane, its indiscriminately killing civilians.

tgags123 :
The law is pretty clear on the difference between a fetus and a living being.
Its more ironic that you are against terminating a potential life, but OK with ending a fully created one. That is warped 'logic'.
Please. As if you wouldn't cross the border in their position. If you are going to kill them for that you might as well kill any one that committed a crime. You re willingness to have people murdered over immigration is pretty disgusting, and I doubt its a healthy sign.
Terrorists do not attack a country, they attack civilians, hence why you have terrorist states. What you are suggesting, is your nation should become one.

"That is different than illegally coming into a country".
What? Arguably stealing land is worse than going on it without permission.
And no country should conquer another. Freedom is the word.

sop281 :
"genocide". Not just in terms of death, but culture too. The government has systematically eradicated their community's, culture, language, national identity, everything that makes them different. Even giving them advantages for gambling was an attempt to bring them to the white mans way of life.

Zurenriri :
most immigrant's have little of worth to Tell you. And if you give every one the opportunity to become a citizen you will have a population boom epidemic.

What needs to happen is the addressing of the issues that drive people to make the journey.

kingvictory :
That's a top attitude right there, maybe you can come up with some kind of industrial killing. You could build like, camps on the border, and like, send them for showers but gas them. Then You can cremate their bodies and use the ash as fertiliser. This would give Americans jobs too. Because killing people that are regarded as a nuisance is not at all like any one else in history.
Legit.


Don't forget to dislike this post boys, spread the word, killing people is good.

thenumberone :

Yes, we do try to help those less fortunate than ourselves, but they are still breaking the law. They are only civilians in their own country, as you know, a person can be a civilian in one country, and a murderer in the next. Actually, when our soldiers go into enemy land, guess what? They become enemies, and are treated as such.

We do need to do this if it is cheaper, cause sending the same people back three times in a row is just ridiculous regarding the cost of food, transportation, ect. If you want to know what the Bible says, then, it doesn't really say anything about limiting immigration, but if any of the Torah is broken, then the punishment of the Torah must be enforced even on immigrants. The Torah says to basically make immigrants into Hebrew's. That way they don't bring pagan ideas into the country, or poor economic ideas. But. the Torah also calls for a (slightly?) different government than the one that we have now. For one, there should be no president, armies would be ran by their own native states commanders, and states would have to defend fellow states under attack. You have to set up judges, through voting of only males of 40 years of age. The government specified in the Torah is much less likely to be highjacked than our current U.S. Government. Nevertheless, our Forefather based a lot of our government off of the Bible.

We really do need to kill more people, I mean, our prisons are just overrun. Once we actually have room and money to deal with people then we can be more meak. But as of now, our courts are so backed up, and we have so much money going to prisoners just to keep them alive. Some people even like jail cause they are fed and taken care of there. Plust, once you get harder on people, people start breaking the law less. Some think that selling drugs should get you the death penalty for messing up so many people's lives, while making yourself rich. I would honestly have to agree. This is our country, WE don't have to let anyone in if we don't want to! Our fathers made it. They made it for us. If people wish to come here, then let them learn our ways and keep our laws. We've been soft on them, and that hasn't done it, so you want us to give in? No, it's our country! We'll keep people out if we want to keep people out. I'm sorry it's come to this, but immigration has become a major problem, and it's how more problems come into this country. We win, they lose, cause we do things differently here. If they wanna come in here, then they need to know why what works here. You don't join a better football team and then take charge of it! You learn from your coach and other teammates, then, once you have experience, then you can do stuff to change the team. Obama wants more votes. So, he gives it to people who will vote for him. I would like to be nice to people and do kinda sympathize with them, but I think that they have ignored our rules far enough.

There is a legal way to come in here. 

Follow it.

If it's too harsh, then that's another debate.

Don't reward football team newcomers for breaking the very first rule upon entering. And you don't have to let ANYONE on YOUR team.

They've gone too far. this has been going on for years. If they like our country so much, then they should start their own rebellion and get a free state.

thenumberone : How am I linked to Hitler? I said we need a better way to stop them then shoot them because that seems to not work, in fact killing them isn't working because they don't give a crap about death. I'm not saying, "I don't like anyone past the border, lets have them gases, then burn them into soap and stuff!"!


Edit: swore, sorry

Sword legion :
"A civilian under the laws of war (also known as international humanitarian law) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or militias. Civilians are distinct from combatants. They are considered non-combatants and are afforded a degree of legal protection from the effects of war and military occupation"
"civilian
Line breaks: ci¦vil|ian
Pronunciation: /s??v?lj(?)n

/
noun
1A person not in the armed services or the police force: terrorists and soldiers have killed tens of thousands of civilians"

Nothing to do with citizen. Civilians remain civilians in so long as they are not in the army. You are cconfusing citizen with civillian. Immigrants are not us citizens. They are however, civilians. I assure you, you are entirely mistaken on this.

As for soldiers, they may be your enemy when they enter you're land, but they are still soldiers. Because like civilian, it does not relate to a single nation. They only work for one nation (of which they are a citizen) but no matter where they go, they remain a soldier. And a civilian remains a civilian.



You're forefathers never "made" it, they took it. Billions of years of chemical reactios formed the earth, and in only a few hundred humans drew invisible lines to divide it amongst themselves.

"You don't join a better football team and then take charge of it!".
Yeh, you do. Very few people are made captain of the team as they join it. They bring new, outsider knowledge and ideas, and if they are the best man for the job, they end up leading the team.

"If they like our country so much, then they should start their own rebellion and get a free state." Considering the fact america spends billions training and supplying the military of south american states, its highly unlikely the people could overcome them. Perhaps if that money was used to better the peoples conditions, they might not be so desperate toleave their homes. No one wants to leave their life behind, circumstance forces them. Even most of your 'forefathers' left for america reluctantly.

kingvictory :
"yes, your corrrect, we do need to do shoot them...they will keep making children and going to the border to cross is"
Youre lack of empathy for others suffering is not so disfamiliar. You know Hitler never planned to kill the jews. Originally he planned to settle them far away, madigascar apparently. Its only as the madness unfolded, as they decided that wasnt good enough, that they decided to take extreme measures.
No ones arguing for letting them in. But killing them for caring about their familly is insane.
Whats worse, breaking a minor law, or breaking your obligation to your familly. I doubt many people would choose the latter if they switched shoes.

thenumberone : then how about we let everyone from everywhere come here, and once the usa is completely overpopulated and the law gets destroyed, we can have crime whenever we want, because they were too many people to manage. Or better yet, lets have disease and drugs come from Mexico and Africa to here, and once America has no more money left and is nothing, they leave. Just like a parasite. And hitler took their rights, then killed them, not "planned to move them




How about this, your being robbed, by about 5 people, 4 in which are teenagers/children(mind you, they are poor). What are you gonna do? your not gonna just let them take your s***. and no, you are not near a phone, and you can't quite get out of the house, all you have near you is a gun or a good weapon, in which you could take out all of them and stop them or at least knock them out til u can get police there. Now pretend your one of the robbers, your doing it for you and your family's survival, you don't care for the person your robbing, you just want the goods, no matter how you acquire them, you just want what that person has and once its gone, you leave to the next one.