This question has come up multiple times already and it recently popped up in a few threads, some of which is not related to Christian Conservatives.  So let's have a look at it, but before we start, may I just kindly request again to please respect the rules of the Christian Conservatives forum.  If you have an issue with what I have to say then please, voice your opinion in a mature manner and say why you disagree.  Don't just get up in a huff and a puff and stomp out of here with a nasty comment.  Please stay and get the whole picture first before you leave your remark and rush off.  If you really get worked up, you can PM me and scream and shout at me all you want, but what I will not tolerate is if you insult and blaspheme the name of our Holy Creator God that gave you life, whether you believe in Him or not.  Please, respect that and we'll get along just fine.

So, once again, if God is all-loving and all-powerful, then why do we have evil in the universe?  Did He create evil?  If so, why did He do it?  Wouldn't that make Him a bad God?  The other possibility is that God is indeed a good God, but that He simply doesn't have the ability to do something about evil.  This would of course mean that God is good, but not all-powerful.  So which is it?  God is a bad God that won't do anything about evil, or God is a good God and cannot do anything about evil?
There is actually a third possibility.  God is not bad, nor limited in His power.  It is true that if God created evil, it would make Him a bad God, right?  This, however, is not the case.  Evil came as a result of sin and sin is something that God did NOT want in the universe.
Unlike many religions, Christianity recognizes that evil does exist.  The Bible in both the New and Old Testament acknowledges that the world is presently in an evil state.  The origin of evil, however, does not lie with God but with humanity.  When God created human beings, He gave them them the choice to obey or disobey.  When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, they bought evil into the universe.  Evil is and action or relationship, not a created substance.  Maybe a further illustration will help.  If I ask you, "Does cold exist?" you would probably answer, "yes".  In fact, the reality is that cold does not exist.  Cold is the absence of heat.  In the same manner, darkness does not exist.  It is simply the absence of light.  Evil is the absence of good, or even better, evil is the absence of God.  God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

There is one passage in the Bible that seems to teach that God created evil.  One gentleman quoted this verse in a previous thread.  Isaiah 45:7 says,I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.  If you don't believe in God and in His word, it is quite obvious that you would not understand this piece of scripture in context.  If you study the scriptures you would find that the original Hebrew translation for that word "evil" is the word "ra".  This also means sorrow, calamity, disaster, afflictions and adversity.  Modern translations have correctly translated the passage with a different English word such as the following example:  "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." (New International Version)
The scriptures do not teach that God was the originator of evil.
The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than "bringing moral evil into existence" is in mind.  The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience.  God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors.  God brings judgement on those who continue to rebel against Him.  It continues in Isaiah 45:9 which reads, "Woe to him who quarrels with his Master".  That is the person to whom God brings "evil" and "disaster".  So, rather than saying that God created "moral evil", Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of scripture - that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

God did not create evil and neither is He to blame for the evil in the universe.  He could have made you to be a robot who would react when He wanted you to react.  That would not give humanity any significance.  God made people in such a way that they could choose whether or not to obey Him.  You see you have a natural sense of right and wrong.  The problem is that we as humans, from birth, lean towards the wrong things in this world.  We are drawn to evil things like a moth to a flame.  The things that seems wonderful and gives temporary gratification, but ultimately it leaves you with guilt, hopelessness, fear, despair, heartache and anger.  That's what evil does.  It deceives and blinds by presenting a delicious looking cake with sprinkles and icing and sparkles, but that is rotten on the inside.  It promises to satisfy, but it never does.  It leaves you wanting more and more and leads you away from what is really wholesome and good until you are so far gone, you cannot see the light anymore and you cannot discern between what is good and what is evil.  All by your own choice.
Murder, stealing, lying and such cannot be blamed upon God.  People choose to do these things and must be held accountable.

What about earthquakes, floods, volcanoes and famines?  Though natural disasters such as earthquakes and famines are not caused by humans, humanity is indirectly responsible for their occurrence.  They occur as a result of our sin.  When sin entered the universe, everything was affected.  Suffering and evil go together.  The perfect working order is now tainted by sin.  The Bible says that the entire creation is now suffering.  Romans 8: 19-23 says, For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.

God is also certainly able to do something about evil.  The Bible teaches that God is all-powerful.  Jeremiah 32:27 - I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?  The fact that God is powerful enough to deal with evil is not the issue.  He has demonstrated it in His Word, time and time again that He is able to end evil.  God is also a God of love who cares for His people.  scripture teaches that God always has the best interest of humanity in mind in every decision that He makes.

As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God.  Romans 11:33-34 - Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!  How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!  “Who has known the mind of the Lord?  Or who has been his counselor?”
Sometimes we might think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought.  God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective.  We look at things from a sinful, earthly and temporal perspective.
Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death and suffering on all mankind?  Why didn't He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering?  These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity.  What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and will ultimately glorify Him.  God did not create evil but He allowed it.  If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshipping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.

I wish I could think as deep as you do lol, wow. What I know from practicing Christianity is that God puts obstacles in our path to prove our faith and christlike attitude to him. I don't know if that helps but that's all I got.

tornadocam :  

So the devil can create things just like God? No. Please stop.

SoL@R :  

There's an easy solution to Isaiah 45:7. Latin.

Formans lucem et creans tenebras; faciens pacem et creans malum; ego Dominus faciens omnia haec.

I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am God who makes all things.

Latin doesn't use "good" and "evil". It uses "peace" and "calamity". So God creates stuff that causes us peace and stuff that causes us strife. Neither of those are evil.

SoL@R : Okay, let's pretend I'm Christian. Yes, he did. You need evil to have good. If he didn't make evil, he couldn't make good either. Also, to your evil is the absence of God, please wake up. Look at the good atheists. They have an absence of god, so then what?

I have to admit, this is an interesting topic, and one that I had spent a lot of time thinking about in my lifetime.  I've actually been thinking about whether or not to contribute to this thread since last night, and I finally decided to weigh in on the subject from my own perspective.

Before I go further, I'll start by saying that I was raised in a Christian home all my life, and all through my life, my faith has been fragile at times, but my belief in God has always been constant.   While I still believe in God, loosing my daughter several years ago cost me my faith in God.



"I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am God who makes all things.

Latin
doesn't use "good" and "evil". It uses "peace" and "calamity". So God
creates stuff that causes us peace and stuff that causes us strife.
Neither of those are evil."

This is actually a line that I have read many times when reflecting on this very subject.  While the words DO seem straight forward on the surface, I've come to the conclusion that there is a little more to the line.

"I form the Light" is an action, while I see "And create darkness" as more of an effect.  Its like turning on the lights, by turning them on, you create shadows, while technically, you created those shadows by turning on the lights, I see it as more of something that helps to define the light.  The same can be said of "Good" and "Evil."  By creating "Good" in the universe, there must be something to create context and to define what is "Good." 

So, while I believe that God did create "Evil," I also feel that it wasn't because he wanted to bring terrible or painful things into this world, but instead it was a by product of creating "Good."  And a way of defining the standard that we should all try to hold ourselves to.

The simple fact is, that when you mmake something out to be omnipotent, omnipresant etc, you can no longer argue their innocence.
Given he can do anything, sees everything, and knows how things will work out, he evidently knew of every problem that would arise. He would know he would try to wipe out all life on earth, what, 3 times?
But focussing more on evil, and its creation, if god created everything, he created evil.
Nucleur power results in toxic wwaste. Its not the objective, its a by product, but their actions still created it.
Also, the argument of free will is commonly made, and frankly misguided. It creates for instance,the notion that their are only two options: 1 which is good and one which is bad.
The first issue with that, is that even ithout evil factored in, there are plenty of choices to be made and people would be free to make them. The idea that without evil, their would be no free will, is nonsecal.

secondly, gods apparent lack of will to remove free will, actually infringes on other peoples free will. God lets people kill for free will? And what happens to the free will of thse that were killed. A father seeks to educate a child, and furhter them, yet forbade them from eating from the tree of knowledge (incidentally why did god have a knowledge bestowing tree, especially gien that, since they couldn die at that point, they didnt need food?).

And doesent it say in the bible that jesus will return and destroy evil? What happens to the right to evil induced free will then?
Equaly, its hardly free if they are punished in hellfire for it. If a police officer thought you were ging to kill someone, they wouldnt allow them the freedom to do so and only after arrest them. In society you in no way are free to do these things. But unlike god, we cant see them in advance, hence cant stop them.
Although, if god is going to punish them when they die, perhaps we should not spend money arresting criminals? I mean we shouldnt hinder there free will?
And beside, if they kill you it hardly matters since you will be in heaven.

"God did not create evil and neither is He to blame for the evil in the universe."
And russia isnt responsible for chernoybl. If i start mixing chemicals in my house, and the carbon monxide by product happens to kill my neighbour, im not responsible. Whether intentional or not, everyone is responsible for what happens as a resul of their actions.
Even god.
Especially god.

Of course, as you have already done, you could attempt to say since evil isnt a thing, he couldnt have created it. You know iff you instill depression in someone, by say, bullying them, and they kill themselves, you can in fact be charged for that (you can here anyway). If you did that to everyone in existance...
If god did not forsee this, then he is in no way intelligent.
You either have to recognise that god is in fact fallible, or he knowingly created all the good and all the bad. You cant just pick the best of both unfortunately.

"Evil is the absence of good, or even better, evil is the absence of God."
Firstly, the absence of good isnt evil, its the inverse of good perhaps. Secondly, the ironjy of you saying evil is the absence of god, is that without god evil would never even have come to be.

"scripture teaches that God always has the best interest of humanity in mind in every decision that He makes."
Hitler had the best intention for his people, that didnt make it right. Much like god, he had the people that didnt fit his plans, killed.
The jews, the gypsys, the disabled, the gays, the slavs etc.
And in all the genocides, such as the floods, im sorry to say that god has clearly killed far more people than hitler. Taking into account that god allowed hitler to kill all those people also makes him an accessory to many more murders.
How many women and children do you think died in all these purges? How is a 2 mont old baby responsible for the 'evils' of his parents? Many people that overlook this are against abortion. How is it ok to kill a child when its born but not before? God is well aware of evil because god is the best example of the word.

"Murder, stealing, lying and such cannot be blamed upon God. People choose to do these things and must be held accountable."
And at what point do we hold god accountable for these crimes?

"You see you have a natural sense of right and wrong"
That is, in no sense of the word, true. Right and wrong is defined by your experiences in life. In the middle east, stoning can be seen as right. Its senn as wron here. Some places view death penaltys as justice to god, others as an afront. Their is no ingrained morality, just as you arent born speaking your parents tongue.
Its because of evil a lot of people dont worship hhim. Because real or not, his actions sicken a great many individuals.
If a human had done all these things for our beterment he would be vilified. Call this man god and suddenly hes a hero.
Actually consider that for a moment. Your honest attitude if a man did these things?

tl;dr! Simply put (in my opionion), did God not create everything? So how did he not create evil? Then yes he did. Why? I don't know, this is why I don't like relegion, doesn't make muchy sense.

thenumberone :
"The first issue with that, is that even ithout evil
factored in, there are plenty of choices to be made and people would be
free to make them. The idea that without evil, their would be no free
will, is nonsecal"

I personally disagree.  Yes, almost every situation in life has more than two options.  Just look at your trip to McDonald's, the value menu alone has about 20 options. While what you plan to have for lunch inst a defining choice by any means.  I think that what needs to be done first is that we must define what "free will" really is.  When we talk about "Free Will,"  I'm pretty sure this inst about whether you order the Chicken Sandwich, or the Cheeseburger, but instead I think that "Free Will" is more about your ability to choose between right and wrong. 

Any dog can choose a favorite between two dog foods, but their decision making tends to be rooted in instinct.  And the dog will gorge itself on food without a thought for anyone but itself.  It would never cross their mind to give another dog the first share of the food.   Humans are different, we have free will, and we can decide to do something simply because its the right thing to do.  We can choose to give away our things, or even to help others, even if by doing so it costs our self.  I know that I've given time at food banks and soup kitchens in the past.  I gain nothing from doing so, but I do them for the simple fact that I feel that they are the right thing to do and I choose to help others.  In contrast, things without "free will" cant see beyond their own personal gain, or whatever instincts they may have.

So, long story short.  Free will inst about making a simple "yes" or "no" decision, but instead is the ability to choose to, or not to, do what is right.

thenumberone:

"Evil" is not a thing just as darkness is not a thing. Both are privations. A room without light we call "dark", but in reality there isn't any thing called "darkness". In a light room, there is a thing making it light. Equally, there isn't any real thing called "evil". When there is a lack of good, we call it "evil". Good, however, is a real thing.

Also, since you brought in the creation story, notice how "good" isn't created. God says "let there be light" and there is light and God saw the light was good. "Good" isn't a creation because "good" is, literally, God. Creation is good because it is like God. Evil in this world cannot be attributed to God like Russia to Chernobyl. At first glance, Russia has less certainty than God and therefore God is MORE responsible for what he is of more certainty. However, people's actions are not comparable to chemical reactions. Every intelligent parent knows their child will misbehave, and many children cause big issues. However, rarely do we blame the parents for poor child rearing. Even more rare is that we excuse the kid causing issues due to poor parenting. We are like children that have run away and rejected our parents. Even if the parents had the power to drag us back home, what they want is for us to come back on our own will, to love them and be loved by them.

If God were to prevent evil like you say he should, the only solution would be for us to all live in total isolation from each other.

Ok, and your other argument is about God's simultaneous omnipotence and benevolence. That answer is given 2 chapters later. We're not in the garden. God does not abandon us when he lets the murderer have victims, we abandoned God at conception. The logical consequence for our usurp of authority is to say "go ahead" and let us deal with our problems on our own. Even so, God has mercy and death is not the last step. Our God promises resurrection. All, both righteous and unrighteous, receive new bodies after our death. From here, the "lambs", those who love God, and "goats", those who still want to abandon God's authority, separate. Free will is retained on both sides, but one side has God to ensure paradise, and the other side will be much like this one.

GateKeeper_A :
Free will isnt about right or wrong. If I desire a walk, im free to go for one. If i reach a fork, im free to go left or wright. Neither of which is morally wrong.
Im free to buy a house, to buy a sandwhich, to go cycling, to join the army, to leave the country, to get married, free will.
In regards to your dog food example, that isnt true. Dogs are highly social, and while they typically obliterate any food put down in front of them, dogs can and do forgo eating to make sure their young, or their sick companions, get food. And just because they act more on instinct, does not mean they have no free will.
Txgangsta :
As I said before, a lack of good isnt evil, that would be neutral, evil is the inverse of good.
And when I shine a light in a dark room I consequently create shadows. As I said before, the fact I only desired the former does not detract from the fact I also created the latter.
"good" is, literally, God."
That is an opinion, not a fact.
" rarely do we blame the parents for poor child rearing"
The parents are the first port of call for blame, its their job to raise the child, the childs failing is the parents failing.
" We are like children that have run away and rejected our parents."
Not really. Because we never willingly left, god cast us out. Its like a parent having a child, and the child does somethig wrong, like steals. Instead of being a good parent, saying I have failed to show him the right way to behave, and trying to rectify the problem, they instead kick the child to the curb, abandoning their parental responsibility.
If god wasnt capable of rearing his creation he should not have done the deed.
"If God were to prevent evil like you say he should, the only solution would be for us to all live in total isolation from each other."
2 Points. One, an all powerfull being should be capable of making wrong acts seem repulsive, hence solving the issue.
Second, since god is apparently going to destroy evil eventually, are you saying that he will isolate every individual? Because the bible does promise it will happen.

"we abandoned God at conception"
To abandon, requires a choice. A child has no choice in conception.

thenumberone :
Ah, but its merely instinct to seek out food (Your example of buying a sandwich), or to buy a house (Seek out shelter.)  getting married is a bond between a man and woman that is commonly associated with procreation (The need to breed) or even going for a walk or cycling is a means to stay in shape and therefore a means to an end towards being able to protect and pursue the things instinct would drive any creature towards. 

Even the example of the dog giving up their food for their young or a member of their pack is just a way for the animal to ensure the survival of  their pups and/or pack, which again is instinct.

The choice to join the Army on the other hand is something that I view as free will, because many people who willingly join do so because they believe its the right thing to do, not because they believe the job will bring them some personal gain.



"One, an all powerful being should be capable of making wrong acts seem repulsive, hence solving the issue."

But wrong acts DO repulse decent people.  We can all agree that things like child abuse, sexual assault, murder, and a whole host of other things are wrong.  Most people find these acts to be horrible and repulsive, but there are still people out there who choose to do them.  Knowing right from wrong will never put an end to evil acts no matter how much those acts repulse most of us, because there is always someone out there who uses their free will to make self serving choices or decisions designed to harm others.

thenumberone:

When you shine a light in a dark room, you don't create shadows. The shadows are simply sections that you are not illuminating. Let's use another example since we're talking about ethics and light-dark doesn't seem to be working as well. Good and evil are like chess. If I invented chess, I have created a bunch of rules (like "good" in ethics). Simultaneously, by creating the rules, people can now cheat (like "evil"). However, I didn't create cheating. If I never invented the rules for chess, but only the board, there would be no order. There would be a privation of rules. The game needs rules. If I create rules for chess, I haven't removed the opportunity to play on the board without rules. The ability to lack still exists. There is no "neutral", it's either in accordance with the rules or it's not. It may be difficult to figure out if something is against the rules, but it's one or the other, regardless.

In the exact same format, good is, and evil is it's deprivation.

""good" is, literally, God."
That is an opinion, not a fact."

No, "my favorite color is blue" is an opinion. I made a declaration about reality. It is either true or false, never an "opinion".

"Not really. Because we never willingly left"

A child is born kicking, screaming, and demanding. It cares only for itself. It's actions fail to meet the standard. Of course, it's impossible that they meet the standard, but it is impossible for all of us at any age.

"If god wasnt capable of rearing his creation he should not have done the deed."

It takes a bit more time than you're giving it. And many refuse to be taught.

"since god is apparently going to destroy evil eventually, are you saying that he will isolate every individual?"

No, but he'll isolate those who refuse to learn from those who are virtuous.

thenumberone : Txgangsta fail summon you

thenumberone :

My take on this is a lot different than Christians.

Yes, God does know the future, but only in a certain sense. 

It we want to say that God does know everything, then that also means that He knew when He created everything how bad things would get. It's like making a bad plan and going through with it anyways.

In the end, I don't understand how God could know what will happen, and then not be guilty for setting things in motion in the first place. 

Basically, God made a world where these things were doomed to happen this way. But I cannot follow such a God. Such a God loves some people, and hates others, only because He can. And then Christians say that God can do whatever he wants and still be righteous, so technically, he could adulterate if he wanted to and be righteous, if He changes the definition of right and wrong just before He does it.

Everything happening right now is part of God's plan, even the child dying right now somewhere on the globe as I speak. 

You can't beat God, resistance is futile, all your actions were planned from the very beggining. Welcome to the borg.

How do you get out?






Stop being a robot.

And how do we stop being a robot, but become a person?

Well, you stop believing tradition.



I'm to lazy to go through all of the motions right now, but basically me and the Christians. (I won't be called a "Christian, because of the very belief that God can do whatever He wants and still be righteous), debate it out, and it comes down to this.

God, can do whatever He wants. . . 

OR

God is held to His own moral code.

I would say that God is limited, because he cannot make a square circle, or a rock that is too big to lift.

Since free will that can be predicted with 100% accuracy doesn't make sense to me, I won't believe the tradition. In fact, many Christians don't even know how the Jews views time.

In the word of this song:

And I might know of our future
But then you still control the past
Only you know if you'll be together
Only you know if we shall last

In the night light
Do you still feel your pain
For the valor
You wait; it never came
If you were able
Would you go change the past
To mend a faux pas
With one last chance

Can God travel through time?

I dunno.

But anyways.

It's like God can do anything. . . 

But he can't create a paradox.

I would dub free will and complete knowledge of the future a paradox as such.

We have to have one or the other. I am self aware, so I think that we have free will.

I think that, all those verses about God knowing "everything" say something a little bit different than one may think upon closer examination. . . and may have been translated to push an agenda. . . 


My question, is why use the word, "if" huh?

Well, the good book does use it.

That's my take on it.



Pretty much, Satan is responsible for all the damage around here, and so are the humans who follow him. :/

aaaannnnnd this post gets dislikeked. . . . super power attac social weapon of death.



whut? ._.

Sword legion : You do realize that a paradox does not completely mean a contradiction, right? Paradox just mean that something LOOKS contradictory, but is not. Some paradoxes exist because they actually work, though it seems contradictory at first glance. There are even some paradoxes in science that actually work like that in real life (Light acts as a wave or a particle depending on the experiment, a heavy ship can float over a few liters of water, black holes' existence goes against Conservation) and we also see that there are some things that God does that seem counter intuitive to us as well (God resists the proud but give grace to the humble, God uses many people who don't consider themselves leaders, Jesus is God/Man Incarnated, God has 3 persons but one essence) Sometimes these are considered paradoxes to us is not because they are false, but because we have the lack of understanding to comprehend them or that they actually the correct views. So when you see a paradox, you don't want to just immediately go, "Oh, it doesn't fit my view, that view is wrong." You need to actually look into it and study "why it appears to be a paradox?" "does it actually work that way?" "could I be wrong when the evidence shows otherwise?"

I would highly suggest you actually study those verses before actually saying that they mean something else, because you have yet to provide how the reading of scripture fits your view that God doesn't know the future, and for you to say that those particular verses are translated to "promote an agenda" is telling me that you are in denial and you can't openly admit that you view doesn't fit the view of scripture and instead of actually looking at scripture for evidence, it's easier for you to just say scripture isn't true. That is how bad theology shows up.

GateKeeper_A :
You can argue much of that comes down to basic instinct choices, but you have the freedom to choose them, and how to go about it. Much like wild wolfs have the freeom to choose their meals, whereas in a zoo they eat what they are given.

"The choice to join the Army on the other hand is something that I view as free will, because many people who willingly join do so because they believe its the right thing to do, not because they believe the job will bring them some personal gain."

Many may feel they are doing what is right, others go merely for money, for attention, for glory, the fact is its not a base instinct to join an army.
Nor is choosing which fork in the road to follow.
Nor is choosing where you will eat.
Or what religion to follow.
Or what to do in your free time.
Life is full of choices without even bringing right or wrong into it. The absence of evil does not impede free will. It in fact protects it. You could argue the police impede our free will, they stop us from making certain choices knowing we would be punished, yet who would happily get rid of the police?

"But wrong acts DO repulse decent people. We can all agree that things like child abuse, sexual assault, murder, and a whole host of other things are wrong."
Incorrect. Fundamentally you're perception of wrong is down to your parents and society. Sexual assault;t in much of the world is really not treated as a crime, often if it is its the woman that is punished.
Equally people are killed for very small crimes.
And child abuse?In some countries people marry kids as young as 8.
Is that not abuse?
A lot of people that do these crimes really don't see a problem with them.

Txgangsta :
As iv said before, it doesent matter if it was created indirectly or directly, it was still created. If you can cheat at chess its a failing in the design.
"There is no "neutral"".
Perhaps in the scenario of chess, but in life there is. If you do no wrong, and don't seek to rectify wrong, that does not make you evil, it certainly doesn't make you good. people often paint it too black and white. You are this, or you are that.
You are good, you are bad. You are white, you are black.
You are American, you are not.
More often than not there is considerable lee way, with no clear division between the two.
So it is with good and evil.

"
""good" is, literally, God."
That is an opinion, not a fact."

No, "my favorite color is blue" is an opinion. I made a declaration about reality. It is either true or false, never an "opinion".
"

Except it is an opinion.
Blue is the greatest colour in the history of the world.
perfect is, literally, bacon.
They are assertions without evidence.
Especially the latter, where what one perceives to be good, another perceives as bad (such as muslims).
Despite the fact I have stated it absolutely, what I have said is merely a strong opinion, and no matter how much I say it is fact, until I have evidence of it, it never will be(a fact).

"A child is born kicking, screaming, and demanding. It cares only for itself. It's actions fail to meet the standard. Of course, it's impossible that they meet the standard, but it is impossible for all of us at any age."
Would it be fair to fail someone for a test on something they have never been taught?
Is it fair to condemn us for not flying when we have no wings. That is a set up, and the fault of the crator of the test, not its unwitting participants.

"It takes a bit more time than you're giving it. And many refuse to be taught."
What happened to his infinite power?

"No, but he'll isolate those who refuse to learn from those who are virtuous."
A.K.A send them to a burning pit of hellfire?
So exactly what benefit is there from committing this crime later rather than now?

play4fun :

No.

Because the Bible constantly uses the word "if", or "unless" and Revelation says "And pray that this day does not fall on a Sabbath" although apparently Chiristians aren't supposed to keep the Sabbath, I dare say just another tradition.

I would say that rather, you manipulate my verses, but if you read the Bible, it suggests multiple possibilities more often than absolutes.

You're the one with bad theology, cause you never had that debate with me that we planned out. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but now I just sense you can't stand me coming around my ideology like this standing against yours in the same context as another user, so that you have to attack me again.

I would highly suggest you actually study what the Bible has to say rather than just brand something as a heresy and leave. I already caught you in the other thread with Jonah. I would like to stay and debate, but I won't. Cause you're a mod, and I'll be out of posts within three of them. It's nice to know where I stand in your eyes though finally.

It's because we put thoughtless tradition that makes no sense in atheists minds that they will never find the truth, for we show them truth only in part.

Matthew:

…19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.…

Christians praying and changing the future is a recurring idea in the Bible. It's just people, becuase of tradition, would rather take MY verses no so literally, and their verses 100% literally.

Ya either believe it of you don't.

But I do not follow a tyrant who claims to be God. Why not make a free willed universe where everyone is doomed to be saved? Is it better than only a few people are saved then?

Of course it is. Cause it's tradition.


All verses that tell of an absolute future, everyone I'm against insists that it's literal, and that all my verses using "if" aren't. Or the verse that I just posted up there.

Cause of tradition.

It's hard to look at things anew.

I'm not interested in being a robot. I serve the true God.

Sword legion : Actually, I haven't debated you on that one thread that was created for us is because I have been very busy with both school teaching and moderating the site/chat. Notice that I haven't been making huge posts in a long time and I have to be very selective in which threads I would comment on because of how time consuming it can be. I'll start responding to that thread near the end of May/early June. 

I don't have an issue debating you or worry about your side of it. I'm just concerned about the truth. I've dealt with this type of thinking before. You don't even know that there is an actual name for the type of theology that you are thinking about. What I have been accusing is that you have been taking bits and pieces of scripture to set up your theological position, while not looking into the context and scripture as a whole and ignore other parts of scripture that goes against your understanding while putting in conditions on those verse that were never eluded or hinted in the surrounding context. In the end, when you said that the Bible is translated to push that particular viewpoint (when we have access to the original language of what was written in the original manuscripts and the translation of what each word means), you break the backbone of using the Bible as the standard of establishing doctrine, and your theological position breaks down.