technically this could go in so many categories, movies as its a movie, documentary as thats what it was made as, debate as thats its purpose.But i think this fits best.

the film/documentary is made by michael moore who is famous in America for picking fights with the elites, in the movie he talks to victims and the men and women responsible for there suffering and the funny thing is how many on both sides aknowledge they are doing these wrongs to the people.  The documentary charts the progress of america from a democracy to a capitalist society(the reason i suggest these arent the same is because the rich interviewed in this actualy say capitalism is better than democracy.

it turns up many points, such as capitalsim being unchristian, unconstitutional and in some respects, un american. At one point you see the richest american buissinessman telling the president what to say to the cameras.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/capitalism-love-story/

here is a link to the full movie, i appreciate not everyone will want to watch the 2 hours of it though so here i have created a glossary(the numbers are minutes:seconds) so you can see what parts you want to:

7:00.forclose house (9 cop cars come to throw a familly out of there home)
9:20 supposed to have 30 days.police:nope(a man was given 30 days notice to leave his house, about 5 days
 later the banks have sold it and send the police to throw him out)
10:40 guy stealing house, i love it(american buissinessman aknowledging this is blatant theft, and stating its beautiful)
12:00 3400 forclosing by bank of america(thats how many houses bank of america had seized at this one point)
13:20 stupid black and white propaganda(a black and white pro capitalism reel, i didnt mean stupid blacks and whites, lol)
15:30 old tax system(this is how tax in america used to work)
16:50 german and japanese post war car industry(heres some humour about why america became dominant)
17:50 american president talking about greed(heres a president who disagreed with this path)
19:20 banks takeover plan(here is where buissinesses decide to stage a coup)
19:50 richest brokerage owner in world changes tax at20:30 tells president what to say(here is your president
being commanded by a rich man)

21:20 unemployment figures.top income tax halfed.household debt.anti depresents and healthcare costs.(here are figures of what changes occured in america during this time, WATCH THIS BIT)

28:00 workers laid off(here are the vast numbers of layoffs that occured due to the financial take over)
28:30 one of workers start crying(heres the lifes being destroyed)

at 31:00 takes about youth incarciration, kids put in jail for 9 months plus for things like
throwing a steak at people.judge was being paid by the juvenile owners to fill there cells.
(HERE IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDNT ALLOW PRIVITISATION FOR THINGS LIKE CRIME PUNISHMENT, WATCH THIS BIT)

35:50m airline pilots making less than a mcdonalds manager.(do i need to go on?)
37:00 pilot was on food stamps(self explanitary)

41:00 companys were taking out life insurance on employees based on there healthcare records
and pocketing the profits.companys as big as walmart,nestle and bank of america taking out policys on there staff,
and refering to them as peasants.(these are companys we all use, using your healthrecords to gamble on your life,there are more companys too, CHECK THIS BIT)

46:00 familly break down in tears that walmart made millions from the death of there mom.

49:00 bible is against capitalism(CHECK THESE 4 BITS)
50:00 direct quote from bible
52:00 message of god
53:00 funny jesus

55:00 banks aknowledge there superiority(they talk openly for once)

57:50 constitution says nothing about capitalsim(CHECK THIS BIT)

58:30 a company where all the workers own an equal share and the buissiness is more valuable due to this(democracy at work)
60:00 bread company workers get paid by there work yield, get 3 times as much cash as airpilots(again, democracy at work)

65:00 derivatives, making sums so awkward the average man cant work them out.(this is blatent fraud by the banks, WATCH THIS)

67:00 banks deliberately make you lose your house.(yes, they want to forclose it, this caused the financial crisis i might add)
69:00 banks keep raising rates

71:30 banks make them destroy there own stuff(THIS IS CRIMINAL, SERIOUSLY...)

74:00 wave regulations for the powerfull and wealthy
75:00 politicians bought off with discounts(BRIBERY OF THE GOVERNMENT,WATCH THIS)

76:00politicians under rich influence harass and give death threats to man who uncovers a scam

80:00 government responds to banking failure by removing restrictions on them(WOW...)

84:00good to know what your tax money is funding (800 BILLION)

86:00 bankers take key government jobs(THATS HOW TO PUNISH THEM...WATCH)

87:30 laws broken to give banks money

89:30 ultimate truth by the female politician and following male politician(WORTH WATCHING)

92:00 government pass the legislation anyway(despite public protest)

94:30 michael moore calls up and as soon as they hear his name they hang up, very mature.(HOW OLD ARE THESE PEOPLE?WATCH)

95:30 lol, he goes to banks to get money back(HAHA, THIS IS HILARIOUS, WATCH IT)

98:00 american bankers get a surprise
99:30 propaganda strikes back(HES A COMMY!)
100:00 arnold makes an appearance, idiotic statement comes forth.(AKA TERMINATOR)
101:00 socialism v capatilism(THESE 4 ARE WEAR THE ATTACKS ON OBAMA POST ELECTION START.WATCH)

102:30 breaking the law to help the poor.(what an awesome guy...)
104:00 reveloution(good on em)
107:00 further oposition(yeh, stand up for the little guy)
113:30 first trade union victory in usa(a historic moment...or not)

115: proposed 2nd bill of rights which would now be called communism in america.
would have brought universal healthcare etc had rosovelt not died.(this is the point where america had 2 roads, before the 1st could be followed,one of the greatest presidents in u.s history died and his plans were scrapped, do you really think this is such a wrong thing to want?WATCH AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK)

118:30 quote "but the people of europe and japan, got EVERY one of these rights"(the destitute beaten nations got what america was denied, is that right?WATCH THIS)


120:00 haha this is the funniest thing ever(revenge on the banks.WATCH FOR LOL'S)






any way, what do you guys think of this?

play4fun on the note of being rich being unchristian he interviews priests in this(we had a past debate if you remember?)

I saw this once. I have my disagreements with him. Mainly that you shouldn't be against a system because a few people are greedy. Stories of greed and corruption and ultimately losing out are in every system from capitalism to a command system.

Hoochman : the reason he is against them is because they control the country, the bankers etc actualy get key government jobs and push there agenda, democracy is about representing all the people, not the top 1%. hes n ot against making money, just ruling countrys with it.

edit:also countrys like the united kingdom, germany, france, spain etc all have laws against these kind of things and an infrastructure that supports trade unions, whereas the bankers in america have sought to destroy all that, with a large degree of success

I do agree that a lot of who is in power are motivated by money. And Desire for money as dominated us as a nation. But I do not think That we are actually ruled by the wealthy unless you count the men and women serving in office. And it would not be a wise move for political future to give in to the rich as they could be voted out in favor of someone more individualistic.

Hoochman : the problem is they shouldnt have power beyong there basic right as a citizen, having money dosent make them better than the guy that works 70 plus hours a week and barely earns enough to live.

I have absolutely no problem with people earning lots of money... what I have a problem with is the people who hoard this wealth instead of spreading around their bounty. I think -that- is what makes certain people in a capitalist society unchristian. They love their money more than the people around them. They care more for fancy trips and nice cars/houses than for people suffering.

geeogree : aka every bank in the world.

thenumberone : and most corporations too. Not all, but lots.

This is the biggest problem in America, and also in many European countries. America was destined to be controlled by an oligarchy (similar to monarchy but it means a select few people in control) since President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act in the 1910's. Having a central banking system like the Federal Reserve, makes a government pay interest to finance a currency. The major problem with the Federal Reserve is that it isn't controlled by the government , and is a privately owned company. When one looks at how many people from the Fed. are appointed into high positions of the presidential party, it appears that the Fed. controls the government.

Here is a quote from Woodrow Wilson after his presidency and near his death in 1924.

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men ...We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."

There have been many other members of Congress and the Senate who have spoken about this since the 1920's but for whatever reason there has been no bills or acts implemented to get rid of the central bank system.

One thing I would like to point out is that the American Revolution was largely due to King George III's attempt to outlaw the interest free, independent currency being used by the Colonies. This forced them to accept a paper bill issued by the Central Bank of England, at interest. It is often said that taxes played a big part in the revolution, and that is true, but I would say that interest played a bigger part of it.

I would also like to point out that many CEO's of large banks recieved record high bonuses during the first couple years of the recent economic downfall. Those banks made record profits during this time. Corporations only care about one thing, and that is money, they don't give a damn about you or me or anyone else (unless they got money to give them).

smotpoker86 : well theres not much to disagree with there.Its ironic, the american revoltion was to gain a democratic country and prosperity,yet from world war one onward,this slowly eroded.

"America was destined to be controlled by an oligarchy (similar to monarchy but it means a select few people in control) since President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act in the 1910's."

and that to me is when America ceased to function under capitalist principles. When a small group of people control the economy you are no longer considered capitalism.

warmaker : have you actualy looked at that movie?if you did and still think its ok as it is thats pretty cold.America was doing fine before 1910 when capitalism never ruled.As for capitalism being best russia is TOTALLY capitalist now,but they have even more buissines men in control,thus the lower class are dead poor.and china is a farce,they have millionaires and presidents for life etc,they operate on a capitalist system.theres is just so extreme only those with government relations can get a piece.Also people come to europe in millions,the birthplace of socialism.the west is mostly socialist,germany massively so.the east is mostly capitalist.but the system is more balanced with government taxing them heavy and ensuring they dont gain control.just recently baa, a uk airport controller was told by the uk buissines competition panel to sell some airports.when companys gain almost complete monopolys they gain too much power,the panel ultimately has to approve every major uk buissiness merger and can split any they want.countries like canada,new zealand,australia etc are not as capitalist as usa but people flock there too.Also,he dosent have a problem with being rich,he has a problem with greedy corporations.hes no even that rich,he has to fund his own books and movies because few companys would support him in america,plus he pays for all the political and civil rights campaigns.As he said at end of his movie 'its his country and he isnt going anywhere'
and my question was based on what the movie showed,its been allowed to go too far.

thenumberone :
First, I have seen the movie.  It's propaganda, made to make you feel a certain way it and it did it's job.  It elicited feelings against corporations and now you have your opinions.  Michael Moore succeeded.

Second, you should go back and understand what capitalism is if you believe the U.S. was not a capitalist country prior to 1910.  The economic basis where private individuals or corporations has been around much longer than that, especially in the United States.  Capitalism can be an entire society that is populated by only small business.  You can have a city with small mom-and-pop stores, with no Costcos, no McDonalds, and no huge banks and you're experiencing capitalism.  Corporations may be bad, capitalism is not.

Third, Russia and China are not capitalist countries.  They have markets, they're trying to understand how it works, but they're fighting against a tremendous cultural and historical background with zero understanding of what they should do.  They are by no means functioning capitalist countries.  They're currently failures and it will take a generation (30 years) for them to succeed if the markets don't destroy them.  And China is doing okay.  They will soon be the biggest industrial power in the world again.  They have been the past 19 of 20 centuries.

Fourth, corporations are made to build wealth and profit their investors.  People think they're scapegoats because... "Oh, look at the evil empire!"  Because of large corporations, we have technology like cars, mass media, computers, and all the things you enjoy.  When you amass large amounts of investments, you can develop these things easily.  If no one united thoughts and production, we wouldn't have all the nice things we have.

Try this for me.  I've seen the movie, you've seen the movie.  Michael Moore is pushing an agenda. 

Try reading something that is not biased to be pro or anti capitalism.  Please, PLEASE, read Charles Wheelan's "Naked Economics."  You can find it online or at any book store and probably most libraries.  It is an easy read that explains what works, what doesn't, and why these things exist.  It is 3rd party and gives an objective view.

Read it and we'll talk.  PLEASE read it.  You'll learn a tremendous amount.

warmaker : of course its biased,hes advertising his view,given his evidence that dosent make it untrue.equally all the pro capitalism stuff is biased.
China and russia,especialy russia are capitalist.you dont need success to be capitalist,there oil industry is an example.they sold off all there fields and now they have a very rich elite.
The argument is not that capitalism is bad,the argument is its gone too far.
Banks shouldnt be allowed to put 5%interest in the main conditions,then unleash 20-40% from the fine print to deliberately forclose your home and the highups should DEFINATELY not be in government,as if theyl govern fair and justly,they have there agenda and they push it.taxes cut,restrictions cut,liabilitys cut,these are there only aims.when they get in the government stops ruling for the many and starts ruling for the few.
Equally huge industrys can stall progress.the huge boom in web browser advancement is very much down to europe. Microsoft dominates the computer world(for now at least)and as such his internet explorer was the only real browser.then eu courts ruled all computer units had to have a choice of pre installed browsers.now browsers like google chrome and firefox are catching up,due to there opertunity to advance.now microsoft have done internet explorer 9 to try to win back users.sometimes governments have to interfere to ensure advancement and market choice,not just sit back and watch.