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Atheisim=religion?
01-03-12 02:05 AM
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It's definitely a belief, like how people who are religious have a belief that there is a God or at least a paradise after death. However, I wouldn't say that Atheism is a true religion because unlike just about every other religion that I can think of, there is no place of worship, no sacred scripture, no real initiation into Atheism, and so forth. |
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(edited by NotJon on 01-03-12 02:05 AM)
01-03-12 04:30 AM
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irleejun : an awakened one?this is news to me, and im an atheist...
Rcarter: id say budism is a religion, they have the buda idol and believe in rebirth. sonicmcmuffin : christmas isnt really christian though,its a hijacked pagagn holiday,egg nog,mistletoe, christmas tree, all pagan dude. AuraBlaze : the war in afghanistan and iraq was because we 'didnt see eye to eye' George bush also called it a crusade. Rcarter: id say budism is a religion, they have the buda idol and believe in rebirth. sonicmcmuffin : christmas isnt really christian though,its a hijacked pagagn holiday,egg nog,mistletoe, christmas tree, all pagan dude. AuraBlaze : the war in afghanistan and iraq was because we 'didnt see eye to eye' George bush also called it a crusade. |
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01-03-12 04:31 AM
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NotJon : Atheism is a religion just as much as any other religion, if you go by the definition Aurablaze posted earlier. If a religion is a belief of how the universe is formed, than it being formed without a God is just as much a religion as all the other ones. The difference (which you pointed out some of the major differences) between Atheism and practically every other religion is that Atheism is not a cult. The difference (which you pointed out some of the major differences) between Atheism and practically every other religion is that Atheism is not a cult. |
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01-03-12 04:37 AM
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smotpoker86 : that is false,the only thing atheists all agree on is we disagree with the concept of god, religion is not a lack of belief.
there is no atheist tombe on the universe, i think the big bang,other atheists think different events created earth.we have no code to follow,no things repuired to be believed,it is simply a label for a lack of belief in god,that is not a religion. there is no atheist tombe on the universe, i think the big bang,other atheists think different events created earth.we have no code to follow,no things repuired to be believed,it is simply a label for a lack of belief in god,that is not a religion. |
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01-03-12 04:49 AM
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thenumberone: I know i was fully aware of that.... Just really couldn't be arsed to involve another religion into it. thenumberone: I know i was fully aware of that.... Just really couldn't be arsed to involve another religion into it. |
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01-03-12 05:13 AM
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thenumberone : I think you missed the part where I said Atheism isn't a cult. Of course two atheists might have two opposing opinions, and like you said the only thing the term atheist implies is that they believe in no God. But no God also implies that there wasn't a god to create the universe. "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" That is the definition I was refering to , different definitions may suggest otherwise. Atheists believe the universe is formed without a God, and that sounds fitting to the definition how ever basic and simplistic it may be. The definition of religion isn't about a group of people all believing the exact same thing , it is a belief or set of beliefs about the universe. You could have your own personal belief about it that no one else shares and it would be a religion .... your religion! Once again, if we are talking about religion = universe beliefs, atheism is a religion. "we have no code to follow,no things repuired to be believed,it is simply a label for a lack of belief in god,that is not a religion." Similar to what I said to NotJon, I think you are describing a cult here more than a religion. I have gone ahead and copy pasted the definitions of cult as many people in this thread have seem to be confused about it. Some of the definitions may be for another usage of cult than I am talking about. I.E. A cult classic movie 1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers : the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion. 4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing , person, ideal, etc. 5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" That is the definition I was refering to , different definitions may suggest otherwise. Atheists believe the universe is formed without a God, and that sounds fitting to the definition how ever basic and simplistic it may be. The definition of religion isn't about a group of people all believing the exact same thing , it is a belief or set of beliefs about the universe. You could have your own personal belief about it that no one else shares and it would be a religion .... your religion! Once again, if we are talking about religion = universe beliefs, atheism is a religion. "we have no code to follow,no things repuired to be believed,it is simply a label for a lack of belief in god,that is not a religion." Similar to what I said to NotJon, I think you are describing a cult here more than a religion. I have gone ahead and copy pasted the definitions of cult as many people in this thread have seem to be confused about it. Some of the definitions may be for another usage of cult than I am talking about. I.E. A cult classic movie 1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers : the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion. 4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing , person, ideal, etc. 5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. |
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01-03-12 11:08 AM
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thenumberone : Let me see if I can make this as simple as I possibly can --not to sound rude in anyway with this. If you have your own set of beliefs, it does not have to agree with anyone, you still have a religion; it just differs from most people. If my explanation isn't clear, the least I can say is that smotpoker86 and I seem to be in agreement. |
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01-03-12 06:58 PM
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smotpoker86 :
Christianity,islam etc arent cults either,that seems irelevant. by all terms no religion has only 1 element that members agree on, thats not enough to have a real link in belief. saying atheists believe there is no god is a massive sweeping statement,its like saying islam,hinduism, judism,christianity etc are the same. no a religion needs core beliefs,not 1 belief.and the thing about religion,is it is based on faith. atheism,is based on science,as soon as something is disproven that 'belief' is discarded,so atheism is not much to do with belief. the 'belief' in the big bang is presented with pretty solid evidence, thats kinda like saying,if i believe a proton has 7 base parts (because its not known yet) that is a religion. that is evidently false. One person thinking something isnt religion because without other people preaching it to them its just speculation and will continue to change. It is a loose claim too, atheists have discarded god as a reason,youre simply turning it around to describe belief like an algebra equation. But if you then stop and think,what is the belief, that god didnt create the universe, thats not a thought but a discarded one, religions dont run on discarded ideas. Its not a belief there is no god because there is 0 present evidence there is one,hence until there is tangable counter evidence i dont think denouncing the idea of a god even comes down to belief.every religious text has had errors exposed,hence it works on proof,not belief, atheism denounces belief without evidence,no atheists are trying to prove god exists because its been disproven as far as atheists are concerned. The oxford dictionary is the original and quoted dictionary in any debate about the english language and it quite clearly states controling power/gods. http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion Nice quote: if atheism is a religion,not collecting stamps is a hobby. Christianity,islam etc arent cults either,that seems irelevant. by all terms no religion has only 1 element that members agree on, thats not enough to have a real link in belief. saying atheists believe there is no god is a massive sweeping statement,its like saying islam,hinduism, judism,christianity etc are the same. no a religion needs core beliefs,not 1 belief.and the thing about religion,is it is based on faith. atheism,is based on science,as soon as something is disproven that 'belief' is discarded,so atheism is not much to do with belief. the 'belief' in the big bang is presented with pretty solid evidence, thats kinda like saying,if i believe a proton has 7 base parts (because its not known yet) that is a religion. that is evidently false. One person thinking something isnt religion because without other people preaching it to them its just speculation and will continue to change. It is a loose claim too, atheists have discarded god as a reason,youre simply turning it around to describe belief like an algebra equation. But if you then stop and think,what is the belief, that god didnt create the universe, thats not a thought but a discarded one, religions dont run on discarded ideas. Its not a belief there is no god because there is 0 present evidence there is one,hence until there is tangable counter evidence i dont think denouncing the idea of a god even comes down to belief.every religious text has had errors exposed,hence it works on proof,not belief, atheism denounces belief without evidence,no atheists are trying to prove god exists because its been disproven as far as atheists are concerned. The oxford dictionary is the original and quoted dictionary in any debate about the english language and it quite clearly states controling power/gods. http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion Nice quote: if atheism is a religion,not collecting stamps is a hobby. |
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01-03-12 11:14 PM
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thenumberone : Most religions are cults , by almost any definition. However as you said this is irrelevant to the conversation. That is why I pointed out that you were attributing aspects of a cult and comparing it to atheism not being a religion. Even by your definition of religion they mostly are all cults. As soon as you gain more aspects than just believing in a God , like ceremonies, gatherings, rituals, or a doctrine than the religion reaches cult status. Of course if you go by a definition of religion that requires a worshipped God than atheism isn't a religion. I clearly stated in my last post that there are conflicting definitions, let me quote myself in case you missed it. " "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" That is the definition I was referring to , different definitions may suggest otherwise." Now we could debate about which definition is correct, but I see that as pointless. Instead we should just agree that atheism is a religion by the definition I chose , and it is not a religion by the definition you decided to go with, which is the traditional definition. "by all terms no religion has only 1 element that members agree on, that's not enough to have a real link in belief." "no a religion needs core beliefs,not 1 belief.and the thing about religion,is it is based on faith." If religion means believing/worshipping a god ( aka the 1 element that defines religion by your definition), than you are once again pointing out the differences between religions and cults. Saying atheists don't believe in god is not like saying all the major religions are the same. It in stead is like saying all the people who believe in god are theists. In many cases atheism may very well be based on science, I am sure that the majority of atheists are aware of the expanding universe/big bang, I do not see how being scientific discredits its beliefs. The expanding universe or big bang belief wont be discarded, if anything it will be increased in strength as more knowledge is discovered about it. Just like our belief in gravity wont be discarded if we figure out how it works completely. "Its not a belief there is no god because there is 0 present evidence there is one,hence until there is tangable counter evidence i dont think denouncing the idea of a god even comes down to belief" I believe there is no god... sounds like a belief to me. Until there is tangible evidence of a God's existence than it is not a belief. I hope you see and understand the sarcasm I used in the last sentence. Beliefs unfortunately require no evidence to be classified as a belief, that is a problem I have with most religions and types of spirituality. Of course if you go by a definition of religion that requires a worshipped God than atheism isn't a religion. I clearly stated in my last post that there are conflicting definitions, let me quote myself in case you missed it. " "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe" That is the definition I was referring to , different definitions may suggest otherwise." Now we could debate about which definition is correct, but I see that as pointless. Instead we should just agree that atheism is a religion by the definition I chose , and it is not a religion by the definition you decided to go with, which is the traditional definition. "by all terms no religion has only 1 element that members agree on, that's not enough to have a real link in belief." "no a religion needs core beliefs,not 1 belief.and the thing about religion,is it is based on faith." If religion means believing/worshipping a god ( aka the 1 element that defines religion by your definition), than you are once again pointing out the differences between religions and cults. Saying atheists don't believe in god is not like saying all the major religions are the same. It in stead is like saying all the people who believe in god are theists. In many cases atheism may very well be based on science, I am sure that the majority of atheists are aware of the expanding universe/big bang, I do not see how being scientific discredits its beliefs. The expanding universe or big bang belief wont be discarded, if anything it will be increased in strength as more knowledge is discovered about it. Just like our belief in gravity wont be discarded if we figure out how it works completely. "Its not a belief there is no god because there is 0 present evidence there is one,hence until there is tangable counter evidence i dont think denouncing the idea of a god even comes down to belief" I believe there is no god... sounds like a belief to me. Until there is tangible evidence of a God's existence than it is not a belief. I hope you see and understand the sarcasm I used in the last sentence. Beliefs unfortunately require no evidence to be classified as a belief, that is a problem I have with most religions and types of spirituality. |
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Yes I believe atheism can be consider a religion although not faithfully. |
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As an atheist, I can safely say that my atheism entails no beliefs whatsoever on my part
But more importantly, even if I did believe there is no god, that does not make me religious. Religion is more than a single belief; religion is a system of beliefs that includes morals, life guides, and a sense of community to those who subscribe. One does not necessarily have to believe in a deity to be religious, but there is some sort of concept regarding where we began and where we are going. An atheist can be religious, but that is rare. But more importantly, even if I did believe there is no god, that does not make me religious. Religion is more than a single belief; religion is a system of beliefs that includes morals, life guides, and a sense of community to those who subscribe. One does not necessarily have to believe in a deity to be religious, but there is some sort of concept regarding where we began and where we are going. An atheist can be religious, but that is rare. |
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Whether or not atheism is a religion depends entirely on which atheist you're talking about. Some of them practically make a cult out of it, some of them hardly ever think about the subject at all, and everything in between. One way or another, *everything* entails beliefs, whether the subject is religion, politics, company policy, or bread toppings. |
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Athiesm is not a religion, plain and simple. "Athiesm" was a term coined by other religions to describe people who did not believe in a religion. I'm considered an Athiest... simply because -I refuse to have a part in any religion-. That makes me part of some made-up religion? And to be dead honest, Athiesm was created by Christians to have a name for all the people that didn't believe in a religion. If athiesm was created by somebody aside from somebody already believing of another religion, possibly. But since "athiesm" is a term coined to describe "Nonbelievers", specifically, no. If athiesm was created by somebody aside from somebody already believing of another religion, possibly. But since "athiesm" is a term coined to describe "Nonbelievers", specifically, no. |
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I think that if people can meaninglessly call themselves members of the religion they were brought up with or married into without matching the lip service with their actions at all (which happens a lot) then so can the antireligious get extremely dogmatic and even evangelistic (which also happens a lot). There has to be some degree to which religion can be defined operationally. Fanatics exist amongst all types of people on every subject that matters to anyone, and fanatics of each such type behave remarkably similarly. I can't help but notice, for instance, just how much it reminds me of the people at the Lutheran high school I went to using "reason is not the domain of religion" as a cop-out every time their own beliefs turned out to be irrational despite using logical argumentation freely whenever they thought it *supported* their beliefs (not to mention how often the Bible's role models did the same) when I see antitheists who rally around "REASON" like it's some kind of dictum or buzzword shrug off every inconsistency you point out with "science shows that the world doesn't always make sense: you must value it over human logic". Hypocrisy and intellectual cowardice are universal traits. I think that if people can meaninglessly call themselves members of the religion they were brought up with or married into without matching the lip service with their actions at all (which happens a lot) then so can the antireligious get extremely dogmatic and even evangelistic (which also happens a lot). There has to be some degree to which religion can be defined operationally. Fanatics exist amongst all types of people on every subject that matters to anyone, and fanatics of each such type behave remarkably similarly. I can't help but notice, for instance, just how much it reminds me of the people at the Lutheran high school I went to using "reason is not the domain of religion" as a cop-out every time their own beliefs turned out to be irrational despite using logical argumentation freely whenever they thought it *supported* their beliefs (not to mention how often the Bible's role models did the same) when I see antitheists who rally around "REASON" like it's some kind of dictum or buzzword shrug off every inconsistency you point out with "science shows that the world doesn't always make sense: you must value it over human logic". Hypocrisy and intellectual cowardice are universal traits. |
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09-09-12 12:44 PM
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gamegeek : The saying is "if atheism is a religion then not playing baseball is a sport" A religion has two components which must both be present. It is a formalized system of ritual and belief. It is focused on a supernatural being or beings. Speaking to "formalized system of ritual and belief", atheists are not an organization, just a number of folks that have independently, through thought and study, come to the conclusion that there is no supernatural force in the universe. There is no credo, instruction manual, or anything. A religion has two components which must both be present. It is a formalized system of ritual and belief. It is focused on a supernatural being or beings. Speaking to "formalized system of ritual and belief", atheists are not an organization, just a number of folks that have independently, through thought and study, come to the conclusion that there is no supernatural force in the universe. There is no credo, instruction manual, or anything. |
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09-09-12 02:24 PM
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Lurker on the Threshold of the Forum |
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09-11-12 04:35 PM
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No... I don't think Atheism is a religion. Every religion has a God, but atheists doesn't believe on one... If they don't believe on one, how it can be considered a religion? Every religion has a God, but atheists doesn't believe on one... If they don't believe on one, how it can be considered a religion? |
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[7:43 PM]mlb789:Quote me |
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09-11-12 09:25 PM
MegaRevolution1 is Offline
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Like I said before in the thread with the exact same topic, Atheism is not a religion. Plain and simple, Nya~. Refer to my post in the other thread for more information. |
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I asked for it. This is what I wanted. |
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09-20-12 05:15 AM
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There is another thread with this topic. Now, this was an interesting case because this one was, indeed, made first. But the other one is getting a lot more recent activity. This one pretty much died down until it was bumped recently. So simply because the other one is getting more activity than this one, I will close this one. Here is the link to the active one: https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=40265 https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=40265 |
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Dominating RGR Competition Hall of Fame Table! |
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