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01-18-20 05:17 AM

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Jake-A-Roonie
08-11-05 02:11 AM
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08-11-05 02:11 AM
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Discuss.
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08-11-05 02:38 AM
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Here is the petition as it stands now:

"We are Chrono Trigger fans who believe the time has come for Square Enix Co., Ltd., to remake the game. Several recent fan attempts to produce a remake reflect that belief.

The original release of Chrono Trigger on the Super Nintendo Entertainment System gave players an unprecedent sense of involvement. Those players became and remained fans, and the re-release of Chrono Trigger on Playstation further broadened the fan base. Using recent advances in game-making technology to remake the game would give those fans access to a system more capable of presenting the game's complex world, storyline, and characters.

We can promise our own enthusiastic support for a remake, and we expect that other fans will do the same. Those who are not yet fans will have an additional and powerful reason to join us.

Thank you for your time,"


Several of you are talking about translating it into Japanese. I don't think this is absolutely necessary; the division of Square we are sending this to might be based in Japan, but I think it would be foolish to believe they wouldn't be able to read English. Because it would only be done to add convenience, we should only do it if we can do it right. In other words, we need a very skilled translator. Even if they had to take it to someone else in the department to translate it, a petition in English would be a whole lot more convenient for them than a petition in Japanese that doesn't make sense. So, how are you planning on doing this?
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08-11-05 01:05 PM
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I believe I've been told that nearly half of the Japanese population can read and/or speak English. I don't remember if it is "nearly half," but it was notably high. So you're probably right, it would be nearly no trouble for them to translate.

However, that's one of the last steps here, so I don't think it's worth worrying about yet. As Tom Hanks said in Apollo 13, "There are a thousand things that have to happen in order, and we are on number 8. You're talking about number 692."

Personally I'm ok with the petition as you just put it, Propogator... So if there are no objections, I think we just need to plan our shipping logistics for now. Where does the physical petition go first, after being printed and signed? Does it stay with the signers? And then they individually send it to the company when we say it's time?
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(edited by Jake-A-Roonie on 08-11-05 11:05 AM)    

08-11-05 04:49 PM
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Have you read my proposed plan for handling the petition on CT:RP? I'm not sure what you're planning, but give this some thought. I will paste my post here.

"You underestimate the usefulness that an e-mail based system will provide. There is no need for anyone to print out copies of the petition to sign until we are ready to send them to Square. Hard copies are much less instantaneous than e-mail, more easily lost, less original (legally speaking) and create more complications than e-mail copies. Groups and group leaders are fine. However, the groups the leaders control don't need to run around gathering signatures on pieces of paper. They should show the petition to people, ask them if they would be willing to sign it and mail it at a later date, and add their e-mail address to the group list. Once there are enough cumulative "signatures" on the group lists the group leaders will send a bulk e-mail to each address on the list asking them to fulfill their promise by printing out the enclosed petition, signing it, and sending it to Square at the address provided. This method should be much easier to manage, and be just as effective, as well as allowing all the letters to be sent in a much shorter time interval, providing a greater shock for Square."


So, basically we write down the names and email addresses of people who are willing to sign it, print it out and send it to Square. Then, once we feel we have enough signatures, we send each one of them identical emails asking them to print it out, sign it, and then send it to Square. Apocalypse also added that maybe we should have each person who signs the petition send it to the group leaders, who would send the letters in bulk. This might be more effective, but also would be more costly.
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(edited by Propagator4 on 08-11-05 02:51 PM)    

08-11-05 09:26 PM
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Essentially, what you're talking about is here. Names and email addresses. (The email addresses just aren't displayed, but they're in a private forum.)
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08-12-05 05:55 PM
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Hmmm... I'm still a little confused as to whether or not this entire project is taking place in the CTRP forums or here. Regardless, I'm checking both almost regularly. Anyway, Props has given some good input, as usual.

For the most part, I have agreed on the basic fundamentals of the petition with Propagator4. As he mentioned however, I differ from him in believing that sending in bulk would be more effective than sending our petitions (in unison) individually. Of course, sending in bulk would bring about some shipping charges. My fear with sending in individual signatures is that they will be ignored. Such a large package would be far harder to ignore, and then, our names would be concentrated on a singe list (far easier to read) rather than multiple letters. Also, there is a far greater chance of many signatures getting lost in the mail if we send individually. I also would like to have a group of "leaders" that would be in control of the entire thing. They would collect the signatures, clean up the entire petition before sending it out, and then of course; send it out to S-E.


The easiest method of dispersing this petiton is to disperse it over the internet (via webpage or email). Those who are willing to gather names would then download this document, gather signatures, and then mail the document over to a designated address of a certain leader. Of course, if Propagator's method is chosen, we would instead send the petition over to S-E rather than any leader. This is a rather fast and easy method of getting it done. All we REALLY have to decide upon is the method of sending. Shall it be in bulk or in individual letters (which are all claiming to be part of this group)? We should decide upon this, in my opinion.
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08-12-05 06:47 PM
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Apoc, you present some sound reasons for sending the signatures in bulk, but you are forgetting that there is still a risk factor involved with such an action. Having all of the petition's signatures arrive on Square/Enix's doorstep in a big cardboard box would make it very easy for the company to ignore us. (They could take the whole box and set it on fire, or just dump its contents in the trash.) In other words, there is just as big a chance that Square/Enix will ignore the bulk letters as there is that they will ignore the individual ones.

Thus, it comes down to a matter of which method is more beneficial.

On the one hand, what Apoc said about bulk mailing is true; it might provide a shock factor that would make S/E give it more attention than usual. We mustn't forget that Square/Enix is a massive company, one which probably gets more spam than all of our e-mail accounts combined. They are definitely used to ignoring most of what comes their way simply because most of it is not seen as important, but if they recieve the hypothetical big cardboard box, they may take notice.

But on the other hand, the benefit to the individual letters is that they aren't a one-time thing. S/E won't be able to shut us up so easily by simply throwing the cardboard box away; we would have a constant stream of letters being sent to them from different sources, all requesting the same thing. After a while, they might notice the sudden influx of new mail, and it would be much more difficult for them to ignore it than it would be for the bulk mailing.

But on the other other hand, there is another factor we haven't considered yet; the unreliability of human behavior. When the time comes for us to request that all the signees print out the petition and mail it, how many of them will actually honor our request? How many of them will not have access to a printer? How many will instead procrastinate and eventually forget to do it? How many of them might be unable to pay the shipping charges involved? How many of them will try to send the letter, but forget to do something obvious like put a stamp on the envelope? And how many of the letters will get lost in the mail? Whether the letters are being sent to group leaders so they can deliver them to S/E en masse, or whether the letters are being sent from the signees directly to S/E themselves, these problems are still a concern.
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08-12-05 09:11 PM
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Well said, Stoney. There are positives and negatives to both possible methods of shipping over the petitions. I believe that in the long run, sending in bulk would have the least negative side effects. It is not very often that a big box would arrive at their office, but I am sure they get tons of little letters just about daily. As such, wouldn't it make more sense for them to respond to a box then a stream of letters? Also, to increase our chances, we can keep S-E well aware of our intentions... such as contacting them before actually sending the package. If they are aware of our petition, and how it will be coming to them, they might be less likely to throw it in the trash. Of course, there is then the problem of... how to contact them. That is for later discussion, if the idea is even used.


As for the unreliability of human nature, I whole-heartedly agree on that. Completely true. However, that is where my prior idea of SELECTING people to collect signatures comes in to play. The problem with that idea though, is that it is MUCH slower. In this manner, we would have people that would be in contact with the leaders, thus they could MAKE SURE the signatures made their way to the leader. Is that really worth it though? My suggestion to fix this problem, OTHER THAN selecting people to do the job, would be that a rule be made. Anyone sending their signatures to the leader(s) would email the leader(s) first, thus informing them that mail SHOULD be coming their way. IN this manner, we can have a better chance of getting our mail through to each other.


Anyway... let me list my take on the benefits and disadvantages of the sending methods:


Individual Sending Method:
Postives:
- S-E would recieve a constant stream of letters, all claiming to be part of this petition.
- No leaders are particularly required, as noone is needed to sort or edit the petitions.
- Shipping charge is minimal per person.
Negatives:
- S-E likely recieves many small letters daily. As such, they may not even look at ANY of the individual petitions (which would likely be relatively small).
- Far greater chance for petitions to not get sent out, as shipping charges and excess of freedom may stop petition from ever being sent out.

Sending in Mass:
Positives:
- S-E would recieve a large box filled with an organized and rather large petition.
- Size of the package alone may give it better notice by SE.
- All individual petitions would have a greater chance of making it in since there would be a group of leaders that the individual would be in contact with.
Negatives:
- Large size may be a BAD thing, because S-E could throw out ALL petitions immediately in one swift stroke.
- Leader(s) to send out petitions would likely have to pay a heavy shipping charge.
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(edited by Apocalypse on 08-12-05 07:12 PM)    

08-13-05 02:13 AM
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My response to the above posts...

About where the petition is actually based, it's here. MichaelVash and I came up with the idea, gathered some support around the forum, and then I went out as a "scout" to Compendium, CTRP and other CT communities to try and unite them in this.

I don't have a problem with moving the petition's "base" to a more visible location, but for the immediate future it's here for the moment... That way we hopefully just have to check one place for the latest on how things are going.

By the way...I'm getting probably 1-4 new signatures a day, I just have been slacking a bit on putting them in the thread...

Although shipping a large package WOULD be a large shipping charge, it's still less than the cumulative cost of thousands of individual letters.

I do agree about contacting Square and letting them know the package will be coming, how it will come, etc.

About the worry with Square throwing it away instantly, I suppose that could happen no matter what. (I do know that Nintendo reads NONE of the letters it receives... In an inquiry, they told me themselves that those letters go straight to the trash.) However with a unique package that will stand out from the rest of the mail, one that is easily and quickly distinguished... It'll be at least noticed before being discarded. Now, to be as sure as possible about it not getting thrown away, we can get a hold of the name of a certain person and direct the package to that person's attention. (Say, ask the manager of Customer Service about whom this kind of thing should be directed to, get the most direct mailing address possible for that person's office, maybe even his/her office number, and stay in contact with that specific person to make sure it gets into his/her hands.)

What he does wants it's in his hands is up to him...but this would help to make sure that your average $10/hour customer service rep doesn't just chunk the thing.

Of course, the whole operation is made more difficult by the fact that we need to be dealing with the Japan offices...
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08-13-05 01:08 PM
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This is a long shot, but what if we contact an S-E office that is more easily accessible first? If we bolster enough respect from say... S-E of America, we could possibly get them to give it to the higher-ranking workers of S-E of Japan. In that manner, we could kill two birds with one stone, Not only would S-E of America see it (though they can't do much), but we could get S-E of Japan to see it too. Of course, there ARE problems. I have no doubt that S-E of Japan wouldn't just throw a mailing from S-E of America out the window... but how are we to get S-E of America to send it out for us? We would have to know someone in the company, who was interested in the idea themself. They would then have to try and strike a deal with a high-ranked worker of S-E of America, and then if that worked... we would just send it to them. They'd look it over, and then send it to S-E of Japan. While this all makes sense and sounds great though; is it really possible? If such a plan worked, that would make the petition get notice FAR easier than if we just randomely sent it in... but there are just so many complications that could hinder this plan.

I think something like that is a step in the right direction, but I think we need to think over a little better on JUST HOW we are going to get such respect and attention in order to pull this off.


On to a different topic...

As for basing the project here for now, I have no problem with that. I do believe that once we get everything set in stone, we should move to a better location though. Nothing against this forum or anything, as it does look interesting in its own right, but I don't think the Chrono Trigger community is very aware of this website.
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(edited by Apocalypse on 08-13-05 11:12 AM)    

08-13-05 02:19 PM
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Hmm... I'll do some research on some people in SE America. I think you're on the right track; it's just how to get a hold of them that may be the problem. I'm working on it though. Hopefully I'll have something for you by late Monday.
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08-13-05 08:18 PM
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I suggest we also get S-E of Europe's support for this petition. That way, the pressure to agree with us will be even greater for S-E of Japan. It'll be two-against-one.
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08-14-05 01:04 AM
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Now THAT may be biting off more than we can chew. Heck, I'll be impressed if we manage to get SE America's support...
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08-14-05 11:38 AM
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Exactly. This is all pretty speculative at this point. We may not even get S-E of America's attention. S-E of Europe isn't really a part of this petition when you look at it this way. We are all from America here (I think), hence we would go first to the S-E office that works for us. S-E of Europe has no ties or connections with us, because we (on a totally different continent) are not their responsibility. As such, S-E of Europe would not only be harder to get in contact with, but also less likely to actually agree to help us. This of course, could be changed... but we would need just as massive European support. It is S-E of America's duty to take some note of what those in America have to say, as they represent both us and their company. Hence we could possibly get through to them if we can get the right connections. Then of course, the big aspect of this all is to get S-E of Japan to take note of our petition, and actually LOOK at it when it is shipped to them.

Of course, we've already hit our first problem with that plan. We need to get in contact with someone in S-E of America, and willing to help us take on this challenge.
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08-14-05 05:54 PM
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We won't be able to do this alone--it will take some major connections to pull off.

Ask ZeaLitY. I have faith in the Chrono Compendium--in all likelihood there is at least one person there who has ties to the game industry, if not S-E in particular. And if that doesn't work, then you could try the GameFAQs Message Boards.

Wait, I just remembered...hey Apoc, wasn't Negus's dad gonna get a job at S-E?

Here's the thread where I heard about it: http://invisionfree.com/forums/Spectral_Wars_Gaya/index.php?showtopic=1105. The man I'm talking about is Steve Pennington, one of the bigwigs at Nintendo for over 17 years. He recently quit Big N and sent a resume to S-E, but I haven't heard any news about it since July...
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(edited by Stoney on 08-14-05 07:34 PM)    

08-14-05 06:37 PM
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An insider would really help. That's for sure. Jake how many signatures do we have now including the ones you have put on there?
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08-15-05 12:44 AM
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Not counting the shoo-ins for signing (such as you and me), we are currently right at 20.
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08-15-05 11:15 AM
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Negus's dad worked for Nintendo, and sent a resume to S-E? He must have let this all out when I was in my "inactive" state. I had not known this. Regardless, this is a possible lead. Of course, we don't want to put Negus in to anything he or his father wouldn't want to be involved in. I personally haven't talked to him much, so I probably shouldn't be the one to ask about his father's position in S-E (if he got one), or to help us for that matter. Obviously, someone who knows him better would be a good person to ask him.

If that doesn't work, I suggest we look for these people with connections on various CT forums. Someone is BOUND to have connections somewhere.



As for the current petition count, I wouldn't worry about it. We're just setting things in motion right now. The best course of action should be to plan before we actually send out the petitions for signatures. That way we'll be best prepared when the time comes to send out the petitions to S-E. Believe me, there are plenty of people interested in a remake of CT. This petition will get attention when the time calls for it.
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08-15-05 01:18 PM
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As I said earlier, I was hoping to have some words from Square by Monday.

Well it's Monday, and I just got off the phone with Square.

They said they take input from fans very seriously -- especially when done in such a fashion as an organized and professional petition -- and if you think about it, that's really SE of America's purpose! They serve as a distribution center for their products, and they take input. That's about it.

As we know, they have no "executive" power to set something in motion in the Japan offices, but they did seem genuinely interested in how the petition was going to be done and gave a bit of input as well. They asked if we are doing this as an Internet-based petition or a physical one. I told them that it's Internet-organized, but that actual papers will be printed, signed, and likely mailed to a master address, which will then be forwarded to them. They asked, "Is it complete now? Or are you starting up?" (Also note that when they asked about its completion, they let slip the number 15 to 20 thousand signatures...so that might make a good goal.) I told them that we are in the planning phase and do not have many signatures yet, and would like to remain in contact with SE so that when it is complete, I will be able to let them know the package (or all the individual letters) is coming.

They suggested sending it to them -- since they are representative of the American gaming base, they should be the ones to receive it so that we aren't jumping the "chain of command" if you will -- and then they will address it with Japan and essentially tell them "look what just happened in America over here."

They said they are going to let their PR department know that this petition is starting, they took down my contact info in case the PR department needs to speak with me, etc. They also said (paraphrased), "Now of course, you know how big companies work...they work SLOWLY! So that means once it goes to Japan, it still could be awhile before they let you know of a decision or an answer, but they will let you know. Something this big can't go unanswered."

OK people, so what's next?
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(edited by Jake-A-Roonie on 08-15-05 11:19 AM)    

08-15-05 03:02 PM
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That is incredible progress to make over one phone call. Very good work. I had not thought it would go so well. I think with this, we may actually enter the phase of our petition pertaining to the creation of the physical (once downloaded) petition itself. Why do I think so? Judging from this, it seems S-E of America is willing to take this petition up the chain of command... directly to S-E of Japan. I had not thought we would get that response so easily. I think our next phase should commence.

Here is what I believe is left on our "to do list" before we actually send out the petitions:
- Create seperate *OFFICIAL* website for the petition.
- Designate leader(s) (as of now, no doubt in my mind that Jake-A-Roonie should be one).
- Select shipment method.
- Begin "advertising" the petition.
- Create petition "title page".


By "title page", I mean the first page of our petition. This page would have the statement of the petition, possibly some CT artwork, and I suggest some sort of "logo" that represents this group. As this is a "Chrono Trigger Remake Petition", and we happen to be a "Group", we can call this group (I'm just throwing out ideas here) the "C.T. R.P.G." We could center the statement in the page, and have a light, slightly faded background image. This "background" image perhaps some official CT artwork, or fan artwork. Either way, so long as it looks good. After the title page, should be simple pages simply having areas to write signatures.

As for advertising, that job is rather simple. All we have to do is inform the Chrono Trigger, S-E, and general gaming community. There are many ways to do that. We can obviously inform others through forums. Two ideas I've been tossing around was to contact popular game websites (once we get some more backing) such as Ign or Gamespot, and ask them to allow us either an interview or perhaps have a small article describing what our group's purpose is, and how to be a part of it. My other idea was to actually go to game retailers. By this, I mean asking them if we could have perhaps a small poster giving information about this petition. One other thing we could do in those stores is to ask if we could perhaps post a petition there. People would come in, see the petition, and sign it (hopefully). We would then return on a certain date to collect the signatures from the store, and add it to whatever we had gotten already. That is a good method to get signatures from CT fans whom you don't personally know; though obviously... it has some faults.

I recommend we get an official webpage for this project. We can still use these forums to communicate, but an official website would give this project a more-official feel to it. We don't need to have anything overly elaborate, but an official area to post progress on the petition, download the petition, give information on how to contact those in charge, and inform people on how the petition will work is pretty mandatory for such a large project.


So... any thoughts? Just throwing out ideas, concepts, etc.
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Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 08-09-05
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