The Bush is Sauron thread closed? It was alive and hopping I didn't know it was closed so I wrote a big post and This can be a thread to talk about our issues. So this is a continuation of the thread

https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=846&page=2


If the media showed any pictures of 9-11 anymore, eveyone would be very very pissed off and ready to fight. We need to remember our past so we don't repeat our same mistakes. I "said everyone has a slant" just Bill O'reilly has less of a slant than anyone else. Lets say if he talks about Marajuana he gets people from both sides of the issue to talk. If he only has one side on then he plays the devils advocate. If the Lying LIberal Bastard can't own up to his lies and the things he says then O'reilly will say somthing. Don't get mad just because the liberals message is one of woe and misery, and they can't own up to the things they say. Again I tell you

""""For the most part Bill Oreilly gets the story from all sides. Give me some examples of how Fox doesn't tell us what going on"""""" ...examples and just not flaming?

The "ethnocentric" bit is a joke. When someone uses a word they probably would't use or know what it means. Or mabey is just a big word you say "well I can make up words too" Its a joke haha.

What do you think the prison scandal images were for Elara? If they showed all the terrorist car bombings America would be pissed off. If they showed our dead soldeirs, America would be pissed off. I've said it on other threads and I'll say it again. If amerca falls it will be because of the naysayers, warmonger people that go around saying "America is evil"


Are you listening to what I'm saying?

"""""I think everyone DOES have a slant. You just have to have the wisdom, discernment, and vigilance to determine what is going on """"

I do look at things with an open mind and oft times I can see the story/issue from all perspectives. I do have a slant though... I look at things through the "GLASSES OF COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY"

Since this is a LotR thread originally I will say this. If you liberal Bastards were back in Middle Earth, they would all be Suaron's b****es by now!!! Tolkein wrote the books with alot of chirstain and politcal points to it. A major one was WW2 and all the Warmongering that was going on. People were saying the same things about the occupation of Germany as they are Iraq. We still have troops in germany to this day. The world and history look back at WW2 and say we did the right thing. The same will happen wit Iraq...

Your preachn' to the choir man.

I look at everything with an open mind actually. I have since I was a child. I usually see both sides to every issue and understand both sides. And I have seen the war in Iraq as pointless from the beginning. You want revenge for 9/11, hunt down Osama himself. You want to not be so dependant on foreign oil, then make hybrid cars more affordable. Solutions to the vast majority of humanities problems are simple, but humans are too greedy for most of them to work.

And notice how it was the "prison photo scandal"? We were not supposed to see those. I could go on for awhile, but I don't feel like arguing with a wall, since it is painfully obvious that you refuse to even think for a moment that you could be wrong, or that your opinion is not the only viable one. Perhaps you should look up the definition of "open-minded" again.

Oh, and with your rant about ethnocentric and big words, please keep in mind that I am older than you, am in my third year of college, am a writer so I do have a larger vocabulary, and more than likely have a higher IQ than you do since I am classified as "gifted" and, judging by the way you present your arguments, you're obviously not. I don't use a word unless I know it's meaning, because unlike most of the idiots in this world I am not ignorant.

You know, I am tired of people throwing the word "liberal" and "conservative" around like they are major insults. I'm sorry, but it makes you all look like a bunch of ignorant children. "Oh he says things I don't like so I'm going to call him a name and that will make him wrong"... wow, great way to argue. Do you call African Americans "n*****s" as well? I've noticed that people that think with that "liberal" and "conservative" are insults usally think that way.

FOX news does s***ty reporting... at least in Los Angeles. All you had to do was watch the story they did on the tsunami in southeast Asia to notice that. Of course I'm not going to go down that road again, since I know how most people here don't seem to care about the magnatude of life lost over there because it wasn't us. The only thing that Fox harped on in the initial reports about the tsunami was that 7 Americans were dead. The final death toll, as of a report on Feb 24, 2005, was 290,713... less than 50 were Americans. And the news cared more about the Americans than anything else... and someone had the audacity to say that 9/11 was a bigger tragedy. Hmn, which is bigger, 290,713 or 2,797? Yes, both are big numbers and both are horrible tragedies... but for someone to say that 9/11 was a bigger tragedy is insulting to the memory of every soul that perished in the tsunami.

Also, and I don't know how many times I have to point this out, but Tolkien did not write Christian or political points into the LotR. That would make it allegory and he hated... no, he loathed allegory. To quote Tolkien himself: "There is no 'allegory' -- moral, political, or contemporary -- in the work at all. It is a 'fairy-story' ... [written] for adults."

So Elara if you are open-minded, then how come you always take the left side of each debate?

First off all lets deal with the facts and not flame and call people names. Second, I was joking about the word "ethocentric" I wasn't ranting about it. First I told my joke, then you oviously didn't get it so I had to clarify.

"""""have since I was a child. I usually see both sides to every issue and understand both sides. And I have seen the war in Iraq as pointless from the beginning."""""

Can't you see the wisdom of overthrowing a dictator that has killed thousands and thousands of his own people!!! As witnessed by the mass graves we have found. As soon as they shot at our plains we should have blown the hell out of them.

"""""You know, I am tired of people throwing the word "liberal" and "conservative" around like they are major insults. I'm sorry, but it makes you all look like a bunch of ignorant children. "Oh he says things I don't like so I'm going to call him a name and that will make him wrong"... wow, great way to argue. Do you call African Americans "n*****s" as well? I've noticed that people that think with that "liberal" and "conservative" are insults usally think that way.""""

I think thats flaming and it sounds like your throwing names around to. When I use "liberal" and "conservative" I am describing a persons world view. If I think that world view as ludicrous then I will describe it as such.

Thats what you have against fox!!!!!! well way to go you have me convinced. After all we are a "helioethnic" nation. OF COURSE your going to want to hear how many americans died!!! We do live in America.

""""""please keep in mind that I am older than you, am in my third year of college, am a writer so I do have a larger vocabulary, and more than likely have a higher IQ than you do since I am classified as "gifted" and, judging by the way you present your arguments, you're obviously not. I don't use a word unless I know it's meaning, because unlike most of the idiots in this world I am not ignorant."""""

A little bit of flaming there Elara? I recieved a 34 on my ACT never took an SAT, I have the third highest ASVAB score in my state (whose population is less than a million) I've never taken an IQ test because I have nothing to prove. I am not gifted....... I would like to say Wisdom, discernment, knowledge, and common sense are infinantly more important than an IQ score or grades.

""""""""""""""And notice how it was the "prison photo scandal"? We were not supposed to see those. I could go on for awhile, but I don't feel like arguing with a wall, since it is painfully obvious that you refuse to even think for a moment that you could be wrong, or that your opinion is not the only viable one. Perhaps you should look up the definition of "open-minded" again."""""""""""

I don't really know what your saying there mabey explain it to my ungifted self? Perhaps you are saying that I am closed minded? I somehow doubt the open mindedness that you claim.

Lastly I WILL admit you were right about Tolkien. Because I looked at what you said with an open mind. I spent 30+ minutes reading on the web things Tolkien and others have written. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. And even fairy tales have morals and principals. And that is what I glean from LoTR. So I do believe he has moral and political principles that he wrote into the book.

Look, I don't mean to call you names, I personally can't stand the flaming on this board at all, but that is all that this board is anymore. In every thread I see there is flaming, politics and religion gets brought into everything, even when there is no basis for it in the topic of the thread. When I joined this board almost 2 years ago it was not like this, people were nice and this place was fun... it's not anymore. The only reason I came back was because my friends asked me to. Reguardless of that, when I lose my temper I lose my temper... you mildly annoyed me so I struck out.

Also saying "You liberals" in the way you do is condecending and down-right offensive. I feel the same way about the phrase "you conservatives"

John, I speak my opinion, if I think something the democratic party says/does is wrong, then I will call them on it. For the most part I don't give a damn what either side says, I go with what I think is right and I get facts to back it up. If I'm wrong, at least I admit that I am wrong.

Yeah the board does get a little personal... I don't mean to cast stones and call your polotics and religion names. I bring my religion into things because thats a defining point of who I am, and who most everyone is. I am sorry that people might take offence. I will also admit that I am guilty of flaming... even if some of it is done to be humorous. I guess I don't mind lively discussions as long as things don't get too hot and heavy. I think what happens in the Debate forums, should stay in the debate forums. I repect because Elara is a very good writer that can put her points forward quite eloquintly...

On the "big wave" that happened because of an earthquake...
I don't know who said that 9-11 was worse. But, there are some differences. One is a natural disaster that can't be prevented. The other is a manmade tragedy, that we are able to prevend. I do think we should do more for them though. As should all the world. A point I have been thinking of in defense of the FOX story is Lets say that there has been a plane wreck in Nebraska. Your whole family was on the plane. Do you want to know how many died total? Or if your family died? I for one would want to know if my family had died, and I think thats how most people would view it. OF course I would care about the other people on the plane and I don't think my family is better than them. Its just close to home, mabey thats why the reporters were harping on the Americans that were killed.

Yeah I understand that, but the first broadcasts out here in LA didn't seem like they cared at all about the massive death over there. They just reported that there had been a tsunami caused by an earthquake, that seven Americans were killed by it (at the time), and then went onto another story about either Brad Pitt or Michael Jackson, I forgot exactly. ABC, CBS, and NBC had a much more informative story and were constantly updating it, once during every news broadcast. FOX finally started doing the same, but at the beginning... oh it was just infuriating.

You must also keep in mind that it was across the world, and information was limited.

yes i was one of the people who came up with the idea of this forum and well it makes me mad because john your to opinnionated and you call every one a liberal just because they dont agree with you. and you always say stuff that dont have any intelect involved just random amounts of horse raddish. Im not being mean but i thought it would be a nice forum because everyone was arguing all over the board and this could be a place to get the arguemnts off the other forums. Then one of the rules said be openminded well calling people liberal just because their views are different to me and by definition is not openminded.
and do you even know what a liberal is i just want to know.
cause one comment you made to me before is im a liberal because i look on the negative side aloto i mean thats a stupid thought thats not at all what it means.

1. Saying people are liberal
So you take liberal as an insult?

2. Do i know what being liberal is?
I know what it is.

3. Comment i made
Thats one of the ways i look at liberal people (for the most-part).

Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.


Well i think there should be a balance between being liberal and conservative.
and the way you look at liberal people explain how does looking at the negative side have to do with being liberal

Well a few classic exapmles.
Who complains about the war?
Who complains about the elections?
Who complains about social security?
Who complains about the debt?
Who complains alot, period?

For the most part, the answer will be liberals.
From my P.O.V. the stereotypical liberal is not very optimistic.

Actually I have heard many conservatives complaining about all of that as well, so it's actually much more balanced than you think.

Doot Doot DOot. I would agree that the bush haters can only focus on the negative. Its ok to complain as long as you have Viable alternatives like John Kerry!!!

Exactly. Prime example. Durning the debates, all kerry did was attack bush. And bush was over there defending himself and talking about his plans for america. I think that says enough in itself.

Kerry spoke of a plan too. He liked using the phrase "I have a plan."

In these debates however, that was Kerry's goal. Thats anyones goal. To make the public NOT vote for the opposing party. So Kerry was trying to do that by pointing out all of Bushs mistakes.

Bush attacked Kerry many a time as well. So don't make Kerry-Mart seem like the only attacker. Didn't you see some of those campaign commercials that practiclly told people "Don't vote Kerry."? By telling people he shot a guy in Nam?

In other words, both parties complain, but since your on the Conservative side, you just won't say it.

I agree with TP, they both were guilty.

And for the record, I didn't like Kerry either.

I think kerry was horrible person. The dems could have won this election. BUT THE IDIOTS PICKED KERRY! Oh i laugh about this one.

And from what i saw, kerry did a poor job in the debates. When a new topic was brought up (cuz they ran out of time) he would race back to the previous topic to get a last word in. That seemed childish to me.

And bush did do some attacking (i will admit). But not to the level of kerry and edwards.

And kerry didn't just shoot a guy in the back. He shot a defenseless vietnamese teenager in a loin cloth. And he was the only one shooting. His fellow soldiers took the teenager as no threat and sought no action against him. There was also a problem. The rules of engagement were not properly used. If they were, the teenager would not have been shot.

Yes they both did complain. Bush focused on what he was going to and wanted to do, and kerry focus on Bush.