Originally posted by geeogree

---

Nasus: what country, once it gained freedom from a tyrant, or monarch, hasn't had a bloody civil war or had to fight to remove the tyrant?

there probably isn't one that you can name...

---

Um, Afghanistan, just a couple of years ago? Germany after WWII?

The point is, instead of the Iraqi's choosing who to represent them, WE more or less chose who would represent them by ignoring the calls for delay by the Sunnis, almost half of the population. Now a major ethnic group will be drastically underrepresented in the new government and conflict will ensue.

oh geeze.... its not like that doesn't happen in our country. Stop being so negitive. Before you jump to conclusions let stuff play out.

And what are you talking about??? Afghanistan have a bloody civil war? Germany have a bloody civil war?

John, I'm saying they DIDN'T have a bloody civil war after the removal of a tyrant because Geeo says they always DO. So I was citing examples to the contrary.

But you know what? I think I have to concede today. Regardless of whether or not you supported the war, you have to be heartened by what has happened today. Though the way we went about it was flawed at the most elementary level and many people died for controllable reasons, at appears, at least at this point, that democracy has taken root. However, I don't believe the U.S. government can take any responsibility for this. It is the Iraqi people who risked their lives to vote in surprisingly high numbers. I commend them and seriously hope the violence will subside.

You can say you told me so now John.

Edit 2: This post on a VERY liberal blog puts it best:

"I did not support Bush's unilateral invasion of Iraq (but I thought the UN should have gone in there YEARS ago). But whatever you think of the war, anyone with a heart has to be inspired by seeing people flocking to the polls in Iraq, apparently at the same level as voters here in the US -- and when they are risking their lives to do so. It is inspiring to see women proudly displaying their ink-stained fingers that indicate they too were able to vote. Even some Sunni areas saw strong numbers of voters. If the dominant Shiites and Kurds can actually maintain a pluralistic, secular government -- rather than taking revenge on the Sunnis who dominated them for ages -- it will be a miracle of decency. Arab news channels -- according to the NYT -- were filled with images of the historic vote going out to the entire Middle East. Our "allies" -- strategic partners who share none of our values, like Egypt and Saudi Arabia -- are deeply, deeply disturbed by this. Good.

Yes, the country is still riven by violence and 1/5th of the population is deeply hostile to the new leaders and our presence. Yes, the infrastructure is a mess. Yes, Afghanistan had elections and now only a few major cities are controlled by the "good guys" while a third of the country is back under the heels of the Taliban and another third dominated by drug lords.

But people want to be free -- whether they live in China or North Korea or Iran or Egypt. People want to be free -- despite a thousand year history of sectarian hatred and religious fanaticism, Iraqis risked their lives to go to the polls. We should be happy. And God willing today may be the day they start to consider themselves Iraqis instead of Kurds or Sunni or Shiite.

I almost put a question mark at the end of the headline -- Democracy is Born in the Middle East? But I don't think there's any question."

I love how eventhough what is happening in Iraq is now turning out to be good, that liberals still won't back off of the "Bush shouldn't have invasded Iraq" thing.... it's funny

ok....
First, I think you misunderstood geeo. He was saying after they gained freedom and then went back under a tyrants control, name an instance when they didn't have a bloody uprising.

Second, Iraqi soldiers had been really hard to train. They split and ran when fighting arose. But sunday, when they were gaurding the polling places, they stood and faught. It really shows they want this as much as we do. I think Iraq will turn out just fine