MegaRevolution1 :    It was boiling water.

And I agree with you, praying without action is silly and fruitless. God doesn't reward us if we pray for a winning lottery ticket, but then fail to purchase the ticket.  (I'm not promoting the lottery.. just offering a metaphor.)

I didn't provide all the details.  They were taking action as they prayed. Running her hand under cold water, and icing her hands, etc.

You don't have to believe it since you weren't there, but I was and I witnessed it.  I may not cook, but I know how to recognize boiling water.  LOL

jamjdckr : Well in my case when I was sick as I mentioned I actually thought there was something more seriously wrong with me and I did think that I was going to die so I can relate to what you’re saying. It was a real scary thing to deal with especially since I do not like nor do I trust doctors very much.

My faith got me through that scary experience. I don’t want to make it seem as if high BP wasn’t a serious issue because like I said it was but, the whole experience did serve to open my eyes to things and made me realize that I needed to make some changes in my life. I’m not sure if it was a renewed belief in religion as much as it was finding a relationship with God but it served to open my eyes.

It may not seem like God hasn’t been there during your struggles but believe me God is always there for you. For me there have been many times and situations/circumstances that I’ve been through that I have had my faith tested. Even when things have been at their absolute worst I always knew god was there. There were also times as I said that I was very angry with god but as I’ve matured and have had time to sit and reflect on things I have come to accept that as I said before God makes you strong in some ways but there are things that he puts you through to help you become stronger in other ways on your own.

Although many of the things that I have been through in life have not been enjoyable, I do believe that I would not be the person that I am today had it not been what I went through. It was really all part of the maturing process and developing my character. I don’t think I was ever really a bad kid growing up but I went through a lot in my teen years and became someone who I wasn’t growing up before that and it took a long time to realize things but I’m glad I got there.

There was also a time for me where I didn’t see certain things in my future and thought that I would be doing something else with my life and such. Although I wrote sporadically when I was a kid, mostly for school and such I never thought that I would make it my vocation. I also kept the fact that I was a writer to myself for years and didn’t tell my friends or even my family for a time. This is one thing that I really regret now because as I’ve gotten older I realized that instead of trying to be something I wasn’t when I was a teenager and bs’ing people what I should have done was let them see what I was really capable of doing and let them see what was in some ways a hidden talent of mine.


I thought I would end up doing something else. Looking back on things all these years later I don’t really know why I kept things to myself. There were a few friends of mine who because they were around me outside of school knew that I wrote but I pretty much kept it to myself. I guess one of the reasons I didn’t let people know was because I might have felt embarrassed. I was someone who was told he could only do third and fourth grade level work yet I was a published writer before I ended up dropping out of school. This also was a mistake of mine but at the same time I felt like I accomplished things that no one could take from me. I was also someone who was told by some teachers and some people who he thought were friends that I wouldn’t amount to anything so I guess that had something to do with it. I also never realized that one of the most rewarding things I would be doing besides my writing would be offering advice to people and hopefully by sharing my experiences that it might help people avoid some of the mistakes that I made and or give some perspective on things.

I don’t know if it was part of God’s plan but I can honestly say now that I can’t really see myself doing anything else other than my writing. If any advice I offer serves as help to someone that is also something I will feel good about.

I wish you the best of luck.

"God can heal any aliment that you may have.  You just have to go to him and pray to the Lord.  Ask Him to forgive your sins.  Ask Him to heal you.  And then when you done asking tell Him thank for all that he does.  And Watch God Change things. "

It must be very comforting for Christians to know that they will be cured of any disease or ailment. Even more so for American Christians - health care isn't cheap there. Forget the doctors and expensive hospital visits just pray your problems away! Now if only we could find a way for all the children dieing in children's hospital to ask for forgiveness and pray to God. I was just thinking people with alzheimer's disease might be out of luck if they forget who God is or forget how to pray.

 If I didn't think this magical healing power was complete BS I might almost be persuaded to become a Christian. If this isn't BS can some one explain to me how or why Pope John Paul II died from Parkinsons after suffering for over 10 years? Maybe he just had too many sins or forgot to pray...

smotpoker86 :
You silly. Its gods plan. He needed that old man beside him in heaven.
Just like if i jump off a cliff while praying, if i die, its gods plan.
Or the devil. Sometimes i forget which ones the good one.

thenumberone :
"Just like if i jump off a cliff while praying, if i die, its gods plan"

No, if you die from jumping off a cliff, that's due to your plain idiocy.

We have free will, and God isn't going to will anyone to jump off a cliff, since suicide is a sin.
Just because you do something while praying doesn't mean it's God's plan.
God's plans get put into action by His fruition, not yours.

actualy i was being sarcastic A common argument=It turns out good=god.Bad=he needed you in heaven, hence ignored prayer ORThe devils influence.If you make such generic statements theres no reason it dosent carry to your own actions.

Is god willing to prevent evil but unable?then he is not omnipotent.Is he able but not willing?Then he is malevolent.Is he both able and willing?Then whence cometh evil?Is he neither able or willing?Then why call him god?From the apropriatly named epicurus.

darthyoda : I disagree, God did create evil. If he is indeed omniscient , as it is often claimed, and created everything then he created evil and knew the outcome of his actions before hand. Here is an example from the Bible. God creates the forbidden fruit and tells Adam and Eve not to eat it. Of course he all ready knows they will eat it, because he is all-knowing, yet he tells them not to eat it anyways. He also would have created the devil and hell fully knowing the implications of it. In other words, he created the ability for humans to be evil despite not wanting them to become evil, sounds like incompetence in my opinion.

Now assuming he is omnipotent, as you claim, he is able to get rid of evil and suffering but chooses not too. This makes him malevolent. Sure humans have free will but so does God. With his free will he chooses to allow humans to be evil and suffer, further more he acts upon his malevolence and banishes some of his 'Children' to suffer for eternity. If any other father were to lock their un-obedient children (or anyone for that matter) in the basement for eternity I would consider them to be evil. For the same reason I view God to be evil ... well I don't actually believe in God but I view the idea of God portrayed in the Bible to be evil. So it is my belief that God not only created evil but is (at least partly) evil himself.

smotpoker86 : I disagree. If God knew that Lucifier would not bow to man and Lucifier would fall from his Grace, then he would assume that God would win. Let me ask you this then...

"If you learn the something in the future will happen; do you prevent it and change history or do you let it happen" This is an example of the "Temporal Paradox" from what I'm trying to get at.

Also God didn't create the Devil. God only forced Lucifier out of Heaven and Lucifier fell from Grace. Lucifier became the image of the Devil to shed his "Angelic Image" because he was no longer and Angel (in fact some Demonologists say that Lucifier and Satan are completely different beings.)


For your belief of omnipotent; the reason for it is because he wants humanity to learn from their actions as he alone knows what are future will lead to and how we will be judged. Let me ask you this then. If God is able to get rid of evil and suffering; then why did he kick Eve out of the Garden of Eden, when he could have killed The Serpent from tempting Eve into eating the Forbidden Fruit?

For your belief about God being evil; let me ask you this...

"If God is partly evil; then is Lucifier partly good?"

God saved my life when I wasn't even born. My parents taught English in China and my mom got pregnant with me. My parents were told I wouldn't survive, because they were not in a very good part of China. Anyway, my mom went into labor, and they decided not to trust the doctor who was cussing them out in the hospital, and they hopped on the first plane back to Canada. God kept me in my moms womb until we got to Canada, where I was born. God saved my life a few times since then too. I am eternally gratful, and I owe Him my life.

Singelli : Wow that was quite a read lol (I ment that in a good way).

Oldschool41 :

If I learn that something bad in the future will happen I sure do try to change it, as most people do. Here is an example, Scientists predict that global warming will have negative effects to our lives, environments and the earth in general. Instead of doing nothing they try to change things and prevent it from happening. Another example, if I am getting bad grades in school I know that in the future I will fail if I don't try to change things and prevent it from happening. I'm not sure exactly how this relates to the discussion but there are a couple examples any ways.

If God is partly evil than satanluciferdevilhades (or whatever other name people want to call it) is partly good. I must admit I don't know enough about satan to give any particular examples of him doing good deeds but it is entirely possible that he can or has. My view of good and evil may differ than most peoples. I don't think anyone is limited to one or the other, a good person can act evil and vice versa. If a serial killer volunteered at a homeless shelter is he a good or bad person? In my opinion he would be both.

The view of God that you seem to be getting at in your reply seems to be that God is neither all knowing or all powerful. I'm not saying this is correct or not but it is generally not the view of God that I hear from people.

smotpoker86 : I had posted my belief in God on another post and I shall repeat my it on this thread (not trying to be mean). I don't believe in a "humanistic" God; more of a spiritual/invisible force that promotes Goodness, Kindness, etc. So you are corret in your last paragraph about me not believing in an all knowing, all powerful God.

Interesting and I agree with you that if you know something bad will happen in the past, that you should change it. However I think you forgot that the Temporal Paradox states this...

"My changing something in the past, you change the future. When you change the future you also effect the past for the future that you had created by going back in the past. Basically I steal Gold from a man = I become rich = I don't go back in time to steal Gold = I stay poor so I go back in time again...and it repeats in a similar pattern."

Now I don't want to get into an arugement about Time Travel as its off topic to the thread; but I will however like to hear your opinion about Time Travel, relating to the Temporal Paradox (or the Grandfather paradox as its similar).

I find your paragraph interesting. You say that a good person can act evil and a bad person can act good. So then let me run this by you then...

If by your belief that is true, then Hitler must be slightly good. Yes he killed Millions of people, commited fiendish level acts upon humanity, and ruled with an iron fist; but surely he has done something good while he was doing that. The point I'm trying to make is that while an evil person can act good; he is still in fact an evil person. If a person's evil outwieghts his good, then he is evil, despite the fact that he has done some good.

Interesting conversation

darthyoda : "...is useless"
And that summarises every religion.
God created us in his image, so he is evil himself.
Allowing someone to sin for freedom of choice, i wouldnt allow a murder, god would. Im against freedom then?
Hes not really allowing freedom either if he casts you down when you die.
mrfe : if it was god why couldnt he save you in china? Does he have limited air miles?

darthyoda : Perfectly understandable my good sir! My beliefs in God are "complicated" I would go into more detail if I wish, but for the purpose of not trying to get off-topic again; you have a valid point.

My belief in God that I last posted is that he is omnipresence. That is he is everywhere and around us all the time, but we can't see, hear, taste, or smell him (hence "invisible force").

The part of an Omnipotent God is that I believe that it ties in with a "humanistic God" so I don't believe God is all that powerful (from terms from a strength perspective; but if we are also talking about the strength to influence actions and people; then yes by that account God is omnipotent).

Now as to Omniscient I don't believe (according to my belief in God I shall repeat) that God is omniscient. Again my beliefs in God are complicated; but to me, God is not omniscient since he is just an "invisible force" that influnces humanities behavior to promote Goodness.

Now to your point on the Greek Gods; you have a valid point since some Ancient Greek stories account for the Gods not getting involved in humanities actions unless they have become offended or believe that humanity is doing a mortal wrong (see Bellphomun's Ride to the Top of Mount Olympus on Pegasus as an example). However, there are some instances/stories that show the Gods preforming actions that do have results (see Zeus' children and how they killed monsters like Jason/Minotaur, Hercules/Hydra, Persus/Medusa). Again this comes back up into the arugement (which thenumberone has posted before) about why the Greek Gods and God doesn't try to stop evil (meaning why doesn't God kill Satan now why he is still in Hell...of course this is a pretty simple answer since God trumpts in the end).

A valid and good question my good sir I should add again.

Oldschool41 : I wasn't talking about going to the past to change something in the future. You asked if we should try to alter the future with knowledge gained from the past not about going back in time to change it. Personally, I don't see how time travel is possible as it is way more complex than just going back to a previous date. The way I see it we would basically need to reverse the entire universe (or possibly isolate our galaxy or solar system). Even if that were theoretically possible it would likely require more energy than humans could harness.

I will still give a reply about hypothetical time travel and the paradox's that are associated with it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the grandfather paradox is as follows. A man decides to go back in time to kill his grandfather, doing so means he doesn't exist and therefore can't go back in time to kill his grandfather.

To me this isn't a paradox at all. If the man goes back in time and kills his direct ancestors of course he wouldn't exist. It doesn't matter if the man exists at that point because there is no grandfather to go and kill. As far as I'm concerned it's not some sort of infinite paradox. Either the man exists and didn't kill his grandfather or he doesn't exist because he did kill his grandfather, it can't be both at the same time like the paradox seemingly implys. Up until the point where he killed the grandfather they both exist but at the moment he kills him they both cease to exist . Actually the grandfather would always exist but he would be dead and have a murder that was impossible to catch.


Edit- Forgot to reply to the good/evil bit, hopefully I edit this before you give a response or read it lol.

I think you are correct when you say "If a person's evil outwieghts his good, then he is evil" but only for labeling. We both say that people can do good and bad. It's not like a person being defined as evil means that everything they do is some horrendous act. I would call Hitler an evil person even though he has done some good things. For example he gave animals a ton of rights, more so than they currently have in America. Unfortunately they had more rights than most non-aryan races. His immoral actions out way his moral ones in my opinion so I consider him to be evil.