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A Debate Completely Devoid of Religious Discussion

 

01-02-05 03:38 PM
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Actually Jin, that article that David posted was probably put up by someone who wanted to give the facts on the subject but couldn't afford a domain name. They did indeed use lots of sources in almost everything they wrote, at least on the diseases. I quit reading after the diseases because I found that to be the important part. My two cents: I don't support gay marriage. I'm sorry, I don't hate them, I don't want them to die, I just don't support them getting married.
Another thing, and this will sound biased but it only just came to thought and isn't something I've had time to think about. Lately I've been disliking America and more and I don't plan on staying here. One thing I can't stand is our lack of heritage(cultural) and Gay marriage is not a cultural heritage I want. I'm sorry if that sounds biased, I really am...just give me time to put thought into it and I'll probably come back and change it.
Actually Jin, that article that David posted was probably put up by someone who wanted to give the facts on the subject but couldn't afford a domain name. They did indeed use lots of sources in almost everything they wrote, at least on the diseases. I quit reading after the diseases because I found that to be the important part. My two cents: I don't support gay marriage. I'm sorry, I don't hate them, I don't want them to die, I just don't support them getting married.
Another thing, and this will sound biased but it only just came to thought and isn't something I've had time to think about. Lately I've been disliking America and more and I don't plan on staying here. One thing I can't stand is our lack of heritage(cultural) and Gay marriage is not a cultural heritage I want. I'm sorry if that sounds biased, I really am...just give me time to put thought into it and I'll probably come back and change it.
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01-07-05 02:50 PM
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found a quote of sorts that I liked....

"Suppose that someone proved that some people are just "born racists": that there is a "Klan gene", and that if someone is born with this gene, that he will inevitably grow up to be a racist. (Hey, this doesn't sound totally implausible: racism does tend to run in families.) Would it therefore follow that it is unjust to criticize racists because they can't help how they were born, and that we should accept racism as just another "alternative lifestyle"? It would surely be disappointing if we learned that some people will be racists no matter what anyone tries to do about it, that the problem of racism is virtually unsolvable. But this would not make racism right. Likewise, even if it were proven that some people are just "born gay", this would not make it right. It would just make it tragic."

"Multiple wives is a concept of the Mormon religion. It's accepted in their own beliefs and such."

Belial: about that.... the Mormons did not come up with that first. Multiple wives is an old testament concept. It was adapted later by the Muslims who live it to this day if they are wealthy enough to, and it was done by the Mormons the most recently for a time. Just to clarify that.
found a quote of sorts that I liked....

"Suppose that someone proved that some people are just "born racists": that there is a "Klan gene", and that if someone is born with this gene, that he will inevitably grow up to be a racist. (Hey, this doesn't sound totally implausible: racism does tend to run in families.) Would it therefore follow that it is unjust to criticize racists because they can't help how they were born, and that we should accept racism as just another "alternative lifestyle"? It would surely be disappointing if we learned that some people will be racists no matter what anyone tries to do about it, that the problem of racism is virtually unsolvable. But this would not make racism right. Likewise, even if it were proven that some people are just "born gay", this would not make it right. It would just make it tragic."

"Multiple wives is a concept of the Mormon religion. It's accepted in their own beliefs and such."

Belial: about that.... the Mormons did not come up with that first. Multiple wives is an old testament concept. It was adapted later by the Muslims who live it to this day if they are wealthy enough to, and it was done by the Mormons the most recently for a time. Just to clarify that.
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(edited by geeogree on 01-07-05 08:52 PM)    

01-07-05 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by geeogree
found a quote of sorts that I liked....

"Suppose that someone proved that some people are just "born racists": that there is a "Klan gene", and that if someone is born with this gene, that he will inevitably grow up to be a racist. (Hey, this doesn't sound totally implausible: racism does tend to run in families.) Would it therefore follow that it is unjust to criticize racists because they can't help how they were born, and that we should accept racism as just another "alternative lifestyle"? It would surely be disappointing if we learned that some people will be racists no matter what anyone tries to do about it, that the problem of racism is virtually unsolvable. But this would not make racism right. Likewise, even if it were proven that some people are just "born gay", this would not make it right. It would just make it tragic."

"Multiple wives is a concept of the Mormon religion. It's accepted in their own beliefs and such."

Belial: about that.... the Mormons did not come up with that first. Multiple wives is an old testament concept. It was adapted later by the Muslims who live it to this day if they are wealthy enough to, and it was done by the Mormons the most recently for a time. Just to clarify that.



Well it *is* a concept of their religion.

As to the racism thing. It "runs in the family" because the kids grow up around people who are racist, and therefore think nothing of it to be racist. I have a lot of family who is racist, but I didn't grow up around them, so I'm not. People are generally a product of their environment. Same concept as "monkey see, monkey do." You guys should really take a psychology class.
Originally posted by geeogree
found a quote of sorts that I liked....

"Suppose that someone proved that some people are just "born racists": that there is a "Klan gene", and that if someone is born with this gene, that he will inevitably grow up to be a racist. (Hey, this doesn't sound totally implausible: racism does tend to run in families.) Would it therefore follow that it is unjust to criticize racists because they can't help how they were born, and that we should accept racism as just another "alternative lifestyle"? It would surely be disappointing if we learned that some people will be racists no matter what anyone tries to do about it, that the problem of racism is virtually unsolvable. But this would not make racism right. Likewise, even if it were proven that some people are just "born gay", this would not make it right. It would just make it tragic."

"Multiple wives is a concept of the Mormon religion. It's accepted in their own beliefs and such."

Belial: about that.... the Mormons did not come up with that first. Multiple wives is an old testament concept. It was adapted later by the Muslims who live it to this day if they are wealthy enough to, and it was done by the Mormons the most recently for a time. Just to clarify that.



Well it *is* a concept of their religion.

As to the racism thing. It "runs in the family" because the kids grow up around people who are racist, and therefore think nothing of it to be racist. I have a lot of family who is racist, but I didn't grow up around them, so I'm not. People are generally a product of their environment. Same concept as "monkey see, monkey do." You guys should really take a psychology class.
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01-09-05 01:16 PM
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but, isn't that the point? why is homosexuality being theated differently than something like racism....

that's not to say, if a kid has gay parents, that he will be gay.... but I just cannot see homosexuality as a genetic trait....

not all gay people stay gay.... not all gay people started out gay....
but, isn't that the point? why is homosexuality being theated differently than something like racism....

that's not to say, if a kid has gay parents, that he will be gay.... but I just cannot see homosexuality as a genetic trait....

not all gay people stay gay.... not all gay people started out gay....
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01-09-05 02:26 PM
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It's been said around the board that not all people are homosexual at birth, and think that they're gay simply because they are influenced by society. Think of being gay like this: a guy being slightly bit more feminine that some would like. Same with a girl: a girl being slightly more masculine that some would like. You, being heterosexual are naturally attracted to the opposite sex. My friend, being homosexual, is naturally attracted the same sex. He has no desire for women. Just as you have no desire for men.

Sexuality is treated different from something like racism because it simply IS different. Racism is how you treat a person based on their nationality, sexuality is what gender you happen to fall in love with.
It's been said around the board that not all people are homosexual at birth, and think that they're gay simply because they are influenced by society. Think of being gay like this: a guy being slightly bit more feminine that some would like. Same with a girl: a girl being slightly more masculine that some would like. You, being heterosexual are naturally attracted to the opposite sex. My friend, being homosexual, is naturally attracted the same sex. He has no desire for women. Just as you have no desire for men.

Sexuality is treated different from something like racism because it simply IS different. Racism is how you treat a person based on their nationality, sexuality is what gender you happen to fall in love with.
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01-11-05 12:56 PM
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granted.... your friend has no desire for women... but why? can anyone truly prove that it was a gene that caused the attraction....

can anyone even prove that attraction is based on genes? that is really what this is coming down to. I don't think I'm naturally attracted to women from the time I was born.... I don't truly know. I will admit that I was probably conditioned to be attracted to women. I saw my parents and other parents, and people in movies and on TV and it was always a man and a woman (until recently)....

now, is it totally out in left field to suppose that at some point in life something happened to the homosexual members of the world that resulted in a loss of desire for the opposite sex and an increased desire for the same sex....
granted.... your friend has no desire for women... but why? can anyone truly prove that it was a gene that caused the attraction....

can anyone even prove that attraction is based on genes? that is really what this is coming down to. I don't think I'm naturally attracted to women from the time I was born.... I don't truly know. I will admit that I was probably conditioned to be attracted to women. I saw my parents and other parents, and people in movies and on TV and it was always a man and a woman (until recently)....

now, is it totally out in left field to suppose that at some point in life something happened to the homosexual members of the world that resulted in a loss of desire for the opposite sex and an increased desire for the same sex....
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01-11-05 01:03 PM
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Gay marriages are wrong, just because its not suppose to happen, the hole the gays use is to dispose waste, and not for the gay peoples jollys. As for lesbians, they got nothing to stick in there partner's happy place thats why they usually use dildos, which is a male organ. Damn I am just soooooo frickin right on this!
Gay marriages are wrong, just because its not suppose to happen, the hole the gays use is to dispose waste, and not for the gay peoples jollys. As for lesbians, they got nothing to stick in there partner's happy place thats why they usually use dildos, which is a male organ. Damn I am just soooooo frickin right on this!
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01-11-05 01:06 PM
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good call Cid!

I do agree with you though. Men and women are physically designed to go together. Men and women have organs that have a primary function that works together.

and on a funnier note.... why do women get dildos? they made their choice.... they gave up the penis... they don't deserve any penile objects
good call Cid!

I do agree with you though. Men and women are physically designed to go together. Men and women have organs that have a primary function that works together.

and on a funnier note.... why do women get dildos? they made their choice.... they gave up the penis... they don't deserve any penile objects
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01-11-05 05:31 PM
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I don't understand this. It seems your argument is that gays should not be able to marry because they cannot reproduce. I have never met a single gay person who has said to me, "Hey, maybe if I hope hard enough, me and my partner can have a kid through some marvel of genetic engineering". But I have heard, "Hey, maybe one day people will be tolerant enough to allow me to share the same economic and social benefits with my partner that a straight couple shares"
I don't understand this. It seems your argument is that gays should not be able to marry because they cannot reproduce. I have never met a single gay person who has said to me, "Hey, maybe if I hope hard enough, me and my partner can have a kid through some marvel of genetic engineering". But I have heard, "Hey, maybe one day people will be tolerant enough to allow me to share the same economic and social benefits with my partner that a straight couple shares"
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01-11-05 06:05 PM
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I support gay marriage. First off, like Nasus said, it declares two people legally family... This is useful for visitation/inheritence reasons.

Secondly, like Jin said, people should have the same basic rights... Period.

And third... You guys seem to be concerned about same-sex marriages because of the lack of reproduction going on... Who cares? There's too many people on this planet anyway. At humanity's current reproduction rate we're forming a J-curve. This is a very, very bad thing. We NEED less people.

What's a J-curve you ask? It's a trend in population. There are two basic types of population balances between species... There's the ideal: A perfect balance. This is when animals can co-exist with neither species growing in numbers too much, or reducing to too few. Secondly, there's a situation in which population goes up and down but balances out in the end... Like wolves and deer - the deer flourish, wolves eat a lot of them, the wolves starve a bit, the deer flourish again, etc. Now there's PEOPLE... and DINOSAURS... and other species that have gone extinct... They all form a J-curve. This is when the population increases rapidly until all necessary natural resources are gone and enough of the species die that their numbers grow too small to ever recover... Then the species ceases to exist. So yeah, I'm all for gay marriage, and I'm all for adoption... More heterosexual couples should consider it... But that's off-topic.
I support gay marriage. First off, like Nasus said, it declares two people legally family... This is useful for visitation/inheritence reasons.

Secondly, like Jin said, people should have the same basic rights... Period.

And third... You guys seem to be concerned about same-sex marriages because of the lack of reproduction going on... Who cares? There's too many people on this planet anyway. At humanity's current reproduction rate we're forming a J-curve. This is a very, very bad thing. We NEED less people.

What's a J-curve you ask? It's a trend in population. There are two basic types of population balances between species... There's the ideal: A perfect balance. This is when animals can co-exist with neither species growing in numbers too much, or reducing to too few. Secondly, there's a situation in which population goes up and down but balances out in the end... Like wolves and deer - the deer flourish, wolves eat a lot of them, the wolves starve a bit, the deer flourish again, etc. Now there's PEOPLE... and DINOSAURS... and other species that have gone extinct... They all form a J-curve. This is when the population increases rapidly until all necessary natural resources are gone and enough of the species die that their numbers grow too small to ever recover... Then the species ceases to exist. So yeah, I'm all for gay marriage, and I'm all for adoption... More heterosexual couples should consider it... But that's off-topic.
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01-12-05 12:37 AM
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Excellent Post Dekker,

If people want to go after something to ban. Take a look at guns, booze and other things.

They are far more offensive than homosexuality could ever hope to be.
Excellent Post Dekker,

If people want to go after something to ban. Take a look at guns, booze and other things.

They are far more offensive than homosexuality could ever hope to be.
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01-12-05 12:59 AM
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Nasus: the anti-gay-marriage community doesn't see the economic and social side of it.... they see two men or two women together.... and they disagree with that....

the homosexual community wants equality.... and the anti-homosexual community wants no more homosexuals.... that's just how it is, not saying either is more or less right....

Dekker: Why do 2 gay men deserve to see one of each other any more than say me and my best male friend? I'm not saying it is fair the gay men or women don't neccesarily have to right to see the other in hospital situations, but if they get the right, because they are in love.... then why am I not allowed to see a friend of mine that I love while they are in the hospital?

And I do agree about the population thing. The world is starting to get overpopulated... but it is FAR from being so. There is ample room to produce enough food to feed the world. The difference needs to be what is produced. We waste food on creating less food. ie. feeding cows 10 times as much grain as is then gotten from the cow. There are alternative to solving the population "problem" that don't involve gay people.

Plus, I don't see the 2 or 3% of gays making a big difference, since they have been around since anyone can remember.... so.... really, homosexuality won't impact it at all.... in my opinion.

Jin: I wish! Honestly. I would love to see booze, hard drugs and guns eliminated from the world. Unfortunately that will never happen with the mentality of the general population of the world.
Nasus: the anti-gay-marriage community doesn't see the economic and social side of it.... they see two men or two women together.... and they disagree with that....

the homosexual community wants equality.... and the anti-homosexual community wants no more homosexuals.... that's just how it is, not saying either is more or less right....

Dekker: Why do 2 gay men deserve to see one of each other any more than say me and my best male friend? I'm not saying it is fair the gay men or women don't neccesarily have to right to see the other in hospital situations, but if they get the right, because they are in love.... then why am I not allowed to see a friend of mine that I love while they are in the hospital?

And I do agree about the population thing. The world is starting to get overpopulated... but it is FAR from being so. There is ample room to produce enough food to feed the world. The difference needs to be what is produced. We waste food on creating less food. ie. feeding cows 10 times as much grain as is then gotten from the cow. There are alternative to solving the population "problem" that don't involve gay people.

Plus, I don't see the 2 or 3% of gays making a big difference, since they have been around since anyone can remember.... so.... really, homosexuality won't impact it at all.... in my opinion.

Jin: I wish! Honestly. I would love to see booze, hard drugs and guns eliminated from the world. Unfortunately that will never happen with the mentality of the general population of the world.
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